What level of work for these front legs?

A big thanks to everyone for the encouragement. I'm certainly going to carry on with a slow and steady fitteing program over winter and guess push things a little further next year. I'm getting on now (45 :eek:) and am no longer Miss Major Competition girl, but it would be nice to be able to get out to the odd local show, the occasional XC and a few pleasure rides. Although the local hunt often meets at our yard, I'm not sure if I'll ever feel confident hunting her. Just wouldn't want to risk her. But it would be good to have something to work towards, other than endless hacking around the roads. Yawn.
 
I'm giggling like a loon at all those saying light hack/field ornament/PTS just from a couple of pictures :D really?
I'm glad none of you saw pictures of my old lads back legs....even my vet told me he would have 'limited use'. I guess the horse forgot to read that memo ;)
He went on to event BE Novice & BS (would've gone further but I was a wimp). He also hunted 3 seasons. Admittedly I was meticulous about fittening & shoeing.
Likewise I have a friend who bought a very expensive well bred youngster. Conformationally it was as close to perfect that I had seen.....it never went further than BE100 due to constant niggles & various lameness issues. You really never can tell :)
 
Our old TB has front legs that are as bad if not worse.

He raced till he was about 10, I think, point to point at a high level with the accompanying hunting. He was fast and won some championship or other and has quite a lot of £££ to his name. But, his tendons and ligaments have never been stable and all his racing post reports refer to him as 'fragile'. He broke down twice big time while racing. They re-habbed him right both times but after the second time they understandably decided it wouldn't be fair on him to race him again so he was retired when he came sound again and we ended up with him. We've never really worked him - he's had the odd re-tweak since being with us just being in the field and we couldn't risk it. We had him scanned and there is more scar tissue than healthy tissue making up his tendons, so there is next to no elasticity there any more. He's 21 now and has earned his keep and owes us nothing as he's an excellent companion and babypony supervisor.

One thing though - Ol does grow a lot of flare. The farrier lets him grow flare on purpose because he grows it to compensate for the deficiencies up above. With this type of horse particularly you can't trim the foot in isolation - you have to take into account the whole leg.
 
I agree with some of the others- I would up the workload gradually and see what she copes with.

Obviously do it gradually and if she starts to feel like it is a struggle or you don't feel comfortable, you can back off, but it seems a waste to just keep her as a light hack without trying to see if she is happy with doing a bit more?
 
We had a mare with a bad toe in, a bit different I know, but it is worth watching her musculature especialy regarding saddles. This mare was quite assymetric in her shoulders which meant saddle had to be flocked accordingly.

Thought it worth mentioning.

I would certainly press on with the mare and see how you go. My friend has a mare who worked in the riding school for 20 years, is vv aged now (a pony) who is unbelievably crooked, she is still sound as a pound.
 
My loan boy has shocking conformation. Worse than your mare believe it or not. He has twisted hind legs and walks like he's constantly on his toes. I had my mum turn round to me and gasp saying "is he lame, he walks funny..." no mum that's just him and they way he's put together. Now he needs shoes for support, wouldn't do without them, but at 18 he's still going strong, is being a real school master for me.

Of and competitively, believe it or not his owner used to compete him at advanced medium affiliated dressage, and he did really well.

Breeding wise he was bred to jump, he can jump but I'm not sure to what degree of jumping his legs could take, he has excellent breeding, he really enjoys the odd couple tho :) owner just preferred dressage...

So just because conformation is poor does not mean that they are unable to compete, and to a decent level too!

He had had a previous injury to his suspensory ligament, probably due to strain, however it was operated on a number of years ago,and he's still going strong. Hasn't had any problems since. Hes also been round xc and fun rides, a bit of an all rounder and a pleasure to be around.

So don't count her abilities too short, just take it slowly and keep a close eye on her. If my boy can compete at dressage at a decent level then I'm sure there's a calling for your girl other than just hacking :)

I should probably get a picture of his legs at some point to show you... They're shocking..
 
Right, I am probably gonna look like a right numpty, but on behalf of anyone that doesnt know, what is wrong with her legs? What is 'bench knee'?
 
I have never even seen that before OP, so no positive stories.

What I will say is my oldie has dreadful conformation, the worse being a dreadfully long, slight sway back (had it as a 5 year old)

Everyone has said over the years that he would not stay sound and in work.

He is the soundest horse I have ever owned. Never been lame and coped with everything thrown at him.

If it wasn't for his weight problem in winter he would still be hacking round the field a lot slower than he would like to go :D and he's 36.

I have had horses with perfect confirmation which were hardly ever sound, just one thing after another.

So good luck with your mare and such a shame as she sounds beautiful.
 
You don't say the most crucial thing in regard to prognosis of workload...is she currently sound?? I'm assuming she is. Honestly if she was mine I'd drive on...you bred her to do a job, ok she is not straight but there are heaps of horses that aren't! I would think that you would need to be doing some loading work on her legs sooner rather than later as the sooner you get that started the sooner you will strengthen/know where you stand. In reality she could have no issues and the straightest best confirmation horse could be a cripple...that's horses!! She's got this far so why not remove some cotton wool and see what happens. She'll tell you quick enough if she's up to it or not but honestly...I've seen worse jumping at nations cup level!
 
Go see sue dyson at the AHT. She does alot on lameness and is fantastic! She can do a performance workout and make a better judgment for you. I have seen horses like this competing. I would personally start work as normal and keep an eye on it
 
Thanks again for the continued posts. It's so helpful to hear anyone's anecdotal experiences. The positives and not-so positives alike.

I'm certainly planning on getting on with her, now she's 5. She's a big mare and last year, even as a 4 year old, she wasn't fully ready for all that ridden work asked of her - from a mental perspective. I guess I could have pushed it, but she's what they used to call 'a high metalled horse' and as she was still bum high and gangly I opted to leave her until this year. We did ground work, backing and a few short hacks out last year, then I turned her away until last month. Best thing I could have done as she's come back with a whole new outlook this year. Far more confident and comfortable with what she's being asked of, even when being pushed to do something outside of her comfort zone. I'm really pleased with her outlook so far. Long may it continue (touching wood!!)

From the remedial shoeing perspective, I'm not convinced she's being shod as entirely sympthetically as the vet, farrier or I would like, but it's a matter of compromise to keep the shoes on. As a youngster she was allowed more outer flare, but it's proving improssible to maintain that now she's so much bigger and heavier. Due to the weight bearing of her action and large bodyweight, the clenches start to rise within 8 - 10 days of shoeing and the outer shoe starts to shift inwards. Naturally, she is seen by the farrier very regularly to attend to her problems, but it's gotten to the point that if the farrier doesn't trim her back quite tight, then one or the other of the front shoes is off in the field within a few days and he's back out for refit. Her deviation does seem less well controlled now that she's mature and in work, simply to keep the front shoes in place. :(
 
glamourpuss said:
I'm giggling like a loon at all those saying light hack/field ornament/PTS just from a couple of pictures :D really?
I'm glad none of you saw pictures of my old lads back legs....even my vet told me he would have 'limited use'. I guess the horse forgot to read that memo ;)
He went on to event BE Novice & BS (would've gone further but I was a wimp). He also hunted 3 seasons. Admittedly I was meticulous about fittening & shoeing.
Likewise I have a friend who bought a very expensive well bred youngster. Conformationally it was as close to perfect that I had seen.....it never went further than BE100 due to constant niggles & various lameness issues. You really never can tell :)
Click to expand...

I don't really see what's funny about a post that basically said its impossible to tell what this horse could do, you could have exactly the same comments without picture.
The difficulty for Spyda is in making the best plan for the horse .
My first horse had terrible forelegs really ghastly it did not stop her eventing, and hunting until twenty and she was PTS at 23 with arthritis in the fetlocks caused the the conformation but she had a full life she did have two tendon injuries over the years which might not have happened if her legs had been better.
So that's a positive story but I know other less positive ones .
I really hope Spyda can have fun with her as I completly understand about not really enjoying hacking because I don't enjoy hacking as well.
The mares had a great start ,no work to soon Spyda deserves this to go well for her.
 
Gosh I do feel for you. A friend of mine has a 2yo gelding who got a development issue and has the wonkiest leg I have ever seen, it's heartbreaking as he's a stunner and she has exactly the same dilemma's as you.

How much work can she cope with? To be honest the answer has to be 'who knows?' all you can do is take things slowly and gradually build her up and condition her and see what happens. If she breaks then don't feel guilty, there is nothing you can really do.

If she were mine I'd probably go more down the dressage route (how does the front leg action look visually?) on the basis that the hind end should take the bulk of the strain.

As she was born with this condition, all you can do is hope that as her bones and ligaments have developed they have adapted to a certain degree to her disability. She is actually one I would possibly explore the barefoot route with, it may be that she does some odd things with foot growth but that it happens that way for a reason.
 
benson21 said:
Right, I am probably gonna look like a right numpty, but on behalf of anyone that doesnt know, what is wrong with her legs? What is 'bench knee'?
Click to expand...

Spyda said:
Fronts1.jpg

Shod.

Fronts2.jpg

Limb inclination when unshod.
Click to expand...

wpddcf6af7.png

C. Bench knees.

It's actually quite hard to find a really good example of horse legs from the from on google.

http://www.easphotography.com/Horses/Conformation Dots Front sm.jpg

^Link because it's a big photo.

Compare Spyda's mare with this one. Can you see how the knees are rotated on the bench kneed horse?
 
Good references, Faracat. Another term to describe bench knees (which I prefer) is offset cannon bones. Because what it is, is instead of the cannon bone being central to the knee and in line with the forearm, the cannon bones are offset to the outside. This puts undue amount of pressure on the inside of the knee and often results in uneven loading and therefore distortion of the hoof capsule. The horse that has it on my yard has more upright hoof walls on the inside compared with the outside.
 
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