What makes a good rider?

[timefort]

This is a semi-serious question /grumble which I would appreciate your views on, however I confess firstly I want a little rant.

Having been a happy hacker for much of my time with horses I have returned to a riding school for lessons (happy hacking being somewhat less compatible with city living). I’m enjoying learning about “contact” and “outline” and am realising that “impulsion” isn’t just something which occurs away from scary objects . My instructor is very good, but the riding school while having a few good horses also has a fair number of “stereotypical riding school ponies/horses” – the type that have learnt every trick in the book. I ride whoever I am assigned to ride as well as I can and try to always achieve something be it having the horse working beautifully in an outline, or mastering getting the bally thing to move without scrapping my leg along the wall. Some days I leave my lesson really happy, other days less so. I’m not trying to make myself sound like the paragon of virtue but I believe I’m paying to learn to ride and riding different animals is all part and parcel of that. However (rant beginning ), one of the people on my ride refuses to ride certain school horses, or at best will ride them for half the lesson then demand to swap with someone. She is a very good rider with classical dressage training and can achieve these mystical things like outline and contact from the get-go (whereas on the same horse it can take me most of the lesson), however it really irritates me that she wont lower herself to ride the stereotypical school horses as she points out she wont learn anything. I appreciate that if I’m learning something new it helps to be on a horse which has a vague idea what its supposed to be doing, rather than both of us being a bit confused, but surely a good rider can ride anything well? Or am I missing something?

Sorry this has turned into waffle more than anything else – I’m just rather grumpy that I get looked down upon as the person who can ride the grumpy pony while she gets the nice flash horse. Being twice her age doesn’t help either!


Cookies or a stuffed squash for those patient enough to read the ramblings…
x

 

[sugarpuff]

I have my own horse who is quite well schooled now, but I actually quite like to ride the riding school ponies where I keep him on livery. I feel that it expands my riding knowledge and skills and allows me to put into use years of stored up little tricks to get horses going more correctly.
When I learnt to ride at a riding school I loved being put on different horses every week. Some others used to only ride the same horse and refused to ride anything else.
Riding the tricky riding school horses is fab as they are not push button rides and getting them to go correctly actually requires you to be a much better rider - perhaps she's not as good as she makes out!?

 

[Bikerchickone]

Never mind her looking down at you, if she always rides the flash (substitue easy) horses she'll never learn any more than she already knows! There's nowhere near as much skill in getting a well schooled horse to work properly and definitely nothing like the sense of acheivement when you get a 'dobin' to do so.

You're right, riding different horses will help you and you'll end up being the better rider for it. I spent a year having 3 lessons a week with my amazing cob to turn him into that well schooled horse and now I'm so proud of him I could burst lol. Ride the tough ones and you'll improve your riding no end.

 

[timefort]

I think mostly I was surprised the first time she gave up on a horse after walking him round the school once. Up until this point I'd always thought she was a very good rider - she clearly is much better than I am, and I'd thought that the way to become a good rider was to ride a variety of different horses...

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

She's not such a good rider as she thinks if she can't get the 'dobbins' to go well.

We've bought a few ex-RS horses over the years and every one of them has had a catalogues of tricks and evasions up its sleeve. We have ridden them consistently and schooled them out of their tricks. Admittedly it takes more than an hour in the school to do so but you can make a difference in an hour.

 

[Echo24]

I agree, my definition of a good rider is someone who can ride any horse and still get the best out of them. In the past when I used to ride at a riding school, I also enjoyed riding different horses as it teaches how to ride each one according to the best way they ticked. Occasionally I've had lessons where the instructors get sick and tired of the ploddy horses that won't move and often got me to give up my ride for the other rider! I didn't mind too much as it meant I could work on my riding, but some days it would be nice to ride the more forward going ones, to at least know "hey, I am actually not that bad a rider!"

 

[xspiralx]

I can see both sides of it - I guess it depends why you're having lessons at a riding school.

I absolutely think that a good rider should be able to get a tune out of pretty much any horse - and problem solving is very important.

However, to put across another perspective... I ride quite a lot of green horses on a regular basis and I enjoy the challenge of getting the best out of, and improving, each one.

But if I went to a riding school to have lessons on a schoolmaster (because I wanted to sit on something that knew what it was doing to teach me more advanced level stuff - be that dressage, jumping, whatever), then I wouldn't want to be put on something naughty and quirky, I would want something well schooled so I could concentrate on improving me.

I don't know if that is the case for this girl at all, but just putting across an alternative point of view.

 

[traceyann]

My friend i always thought was a good rider looks perfect hardley moves on her horse not a hair out of place and never draws a sweat complete opposite to me. I always wanted to ride like her gracefull. Then one day she got on my WB who i think is an easy ride push button should have seen the state of her when she had finshed and she fell of when he threw himself around a bit which was nothing. She may look pretty and gracefull but cant stay on a horse who throws them self about abit. I did snigger a bit as it the first time id seen her dirty and sweating and the language that came out of her month wasnt ladylike even for my common ears

 

[tubby1]

For me the best riders are the happy hackers coz they can ride safely and happily not knowing knowing what might jump out the bushes, be waiting to eat them round the next corner etc. etc. I think you have to be a good rider , brave and be in tune with your horse.x

 

[.Redmerl]

When I was between horses last year I went to a local riding school. I was asked which horse I would prefer when my riding was assessed, which was nice of them. If I go for lessons I expect the horse I am riding to be good enough that I learn something. I don't expect to be paying to effectively school there horses. So yes, I would refuse to ride something that is no benefit to me, however they could pay me to school it!

 

[somethingorother]

Maybe I am that person (apart from being a brilliant rider) as when I pay to ride, I want to enjoy it and I get no joy from ploddy dead to the leg and seat horses. I want to concentrate on my riding, not schooling their horse. I can, have and will school peoples horses and enjoy it, but I'm not going to pay for that.

 

[Daisy2]

My idea of a good rider is one that can handle the horse in an uncontrolled environment, dealing with the frisky take offs and shies etc Have fun and come back from a hack exhilerated. IMHO dressage, contact etc is the finesse element that comes once you truly have learnt to ride balanced able and to read the body language of what your horse is thinking and about to do next.

I learnt the hard way I suppose, hitting the deck and learning how to avoid it seems to quicken up the learning process As a kid we were always told falling off makes you a better rider, kind of made falling off an investment!

 

[Kenzo]

I can see what your point is but she may not want to pay good money to ride a horse that takes most of the lesson up trying to get at least a half decent trot/canter work out of before doing more advanced work... so to speak.

Ive paid to have lessons before on other horses at riding centres in the past, thinking I'd treat myself to a good flat work lesson and was very disappointed with what I was given to ride, took me all my time to get them going let alone anything else, so it was a complete waste of money, maybe she thinks the same.

 

[JingleTingle]

She obviously has only ever learnt to get a good tune out of a good horse....well thats the easy part of horse riding isnt it? If someone is competent enough to get a good tune out of a cranky riding school horse then I am impressed.

Anyone can push buttons, it takes a competent rider to 'coax' a ploddy horse into some sort of decent work and pace.

Id ignore her OP - and enjoy your lessons at what ever level suits you on whatever horse your given - just wipe the smirk off her face when you have your ploddy old hairy tracking up in a perfect outline and ask her if she would like to attempt to achieve the same on it?

 

[traceyann]

I really agree with the above post I love going on riding school horses that everybody hates to slow boring they are like that because they have to switch of for beginners. You get someone who knows what to do these horses can do a decent dressage test. Which iv proved. I think these riding school horse should be given more credit than they get.

 

[SpottedCat]

In afraid I'd be with the lady who refuses to ride some horses - it's nothing to do with thinking you're too good/better/not being good enough to get the 'dobbins' going well. It's because I don't see the point in paying to school someone else's horse when I can be paid to do that! The only reason I go for lessons on other people's horses is to improve my riding. If I'm not going to do that - which in my book means riding something well schooled and responsive, I'd ask to swap/refuse to ride it too. I think she's totally within her rights as a paying customer to do this.

 

[Kat]

I know where you are coming from OP! When dh and I were riding at a riding school we'd often get people come to join our lessons who thought they were a cut above. They would be between horses or preparing for an exam. They would be put on one of the horses that are used for the exams, inn fact often one particular little cob. typically they would struggle to get him to move never mind go in an outline or do anything fancy. The regulars would then be sniggering away as we know what the little cob is capable of when ridden properly. He was used for people like that as he was generally safe so if they had overestimated their ability it didn't matter but he also reallly showed up how good your riding was. If you asked him properly he was capable of working really well, forwards, in an outline, flying changes, lateral work etc. If you didn't ask properly you got riding school plod.

Learn how to get the best out of whatever you sit on. It will stand you in far better stead than simply riding easy horses!

 

[muffinmunsh]

Good rider or not, at £35 a lesson at my local inner city riding school I think one can expect a horse that one can learn on. That means different things to different people of course ... I am quite happy to ride their stiff, older ones and the naughty ponies as it is a challenge to make them go nicely. The super sharp naughty ones on the other hand I don't want to ride. I am too old for that game and prefer to get chucked off my own horses these days ;-)

 

[somethingorother]

When people are saying it will be better for you to be able to get a lazy horse going (which I can if I need to but don't find fun) I don't see how when I am never going to buy that kind of horse? I like riding naughty horses and am good at getting a sensible tune out of a giddy horse, other people are good at getting a tune out of lazy horses. I think it is unfair and unnecessary to snigger or be angry at someone who enjoys a certain type of horse. It's also hypocritical to say they think they are better than you, then say you laugh at them because they cant/ wont ride a lazy horse. Maybe some people should take a look at themselves rather than being so bothered about other people.

 

[much-jittering]

Surely all those saying about how as a paying customer she should get to ride the type she wants, fair enough - but surely that should be discussed with the RS staff outside of the lesson and taken into account when doing the horse allocations. It's just not fair to swap a client off a horse that they're happily riding because somebody else doesn't like the one that they're on, seems a sure fire way of pee-ing off and losing 2 clients rather than just 1!

 

[Onyxia]

When people are saying it will be better for you to be able to get a lazy horse going (which I can if I need to but don't find fun) I don't see how when I am never going to buy that kind of horse? I like riding naughty horses and am good at getting a sensible tune out of a giddy horse, other people are good at getting a tune out of lazy horses.

but you never know what the future will hold, and the RS should teach clients to deal with as many types of horse and situations as they can.
A good rider will get a tune out of anything they sit on btu that ability comes from experience with a variety of horses.

I think it is unfair and unnecessary to snigger or be angry at someone who enjoys a certain type of horse. It's also hypocritical to say they think they are better than you, then say you laugh at them because they cant/ wont ride a lazy horse.

Agree, more so when the reason for the refusal is unclear.
If the lady wants a schoolmaster type to get a feel for correctly performed movements, a RS plod is not going to help her achieve her aims and it would be correct for her to request a different horse.
Mind you, there IS a lot of snobbery in the horse world, and if it is simply a case of not wanting to be seen on a more ordinary type or made to work by a horse that is not uber cooperative then she should just get on with it
However, as much-jittering said that should all be discussed before lessons.
IMO unless there is a problem swapping horses just because it's not you favourite/it does not make you look as good as you think you are is disrupting behaviour and should be unwelcome.

Maybe some people should take a look at themselves rather than being so bothered about other people.

if only!

 

[anuvb]

To be fair i don't think we know 'enough' to say whether or not this lady is a good rider or not. We don't know whether or not she's discussed it with the school or trainer & i can see both sides of the argument.... There's nothing worse than being in a group lesson and feeling like someone is being favoured or playing the 'system' but there's also nothing worse than being a good rider and being expected to school all the horses in the lessons you're paying for. The truth is that it's up to the school to make sure everyone in the class is of a similar level, that they're all learning somehting and all enjoy the experience. How they do this is up to them...

But to answer the question what makes a good rider? Honestly it doesn't have to be someon who can do all the fancy stuff (although it's fun) it is someone with a good seat, leg & hands... Simples

 

[somethingorother]

but you never know what the future will hold, and the RS should teach clients to deal with as many types of horse and situations as they can.
A good rider will get a tune out of anything they sit on btu that ability comes from experience with a variety of horses.


But that is just your opinion on what makes a good rider. Everyone has a different view of what this could be, so maybe the person being slated on a puplic forum just has different criteria for becoming as good a rider as she wants to be. In my opinion, a nice rider is one which can give precise, clear but minute aids, has still and soft hands and a relaxed natural position with some stickability and good ballance. Which for all we know the lady (who we have never seen or met) may have. Unless you are going to be paid for schooling others horses then why does it matter at all if you can and only want to ride one type of horse. Not that this is me, i have ridden everything i got chance to but these days i will request something with a bit of life in it if i am going to pay to ride. Just don't think people should be so quick to jump on others.

Agree, more so when the reason for the refusal is unclear.
If the lady wants a schoolmaster type to get a feel for correctly performed movements, a RS plod is not going to help her achieve her aims and it would be correct for her to request a different horse.
Mind you, there IS a lot of snobbery in the horse world, and if it is simply a case of not wanting to be seen on a more ordinary type or made to work by a horse that is not uber cooperative then she should just get on with it
However, as much-jittering said that should all be discussed before lessons.
IMO unless there is a problem swapping horses just because it's not you favourite/it does not make you look as good as you think you are is disrupting behaviour and should be unwelcome.

if only!

I agree that she should discuss this before the lesson and demanding to swop is a little rude but i don't agree with all those people saying 'she's not as good as she thinks if she can't ride a switched off cob'.

 

[Onyxia]

But that is just your opinion on what makes a good rider. Everyone has a different view of what this could be, so maybe the person being slated on a puplic forum just has different criteria for becoming as good a rider as she wants to be. In my opinion, a nice rider is one which can give precise, clear but minute aids, has still and soft hands and a relaxed natural position with some stickability and good ballance.

Surely that is just a list of skills possessed by a rider who is able to get whatever horse they are on work well?
Everyone has a personal preference about the types of horses they ride and thats sine as long as they are also able to ride other types.

I fail to see how a rider who can only get one type of horse to work can be classed as good!

I agree that she should discuss this before the lesson and demanding to swop is a little rude but i don't agree with all those people saying 'she's not as good as she thinks if she can't ride a switched off cob'.

Nothing as lovely as the horsey snob

 

[Spyda]

In afraid I'd be with the lady who refuses to ride some horses - it's nothing to do with thinking you're too good/better/not being good enough to get the 'dobbins' going well. It's because I don't see the point in paying to school someone else's horse when I can be paid to do that! The only reason I go for lessons on other people's horses is to improve my riding. If I'm not going to do that - which in my book means riding something well schooled and responsive, I'd ask to swap/refuse to ride it too. I think she's totally within her rights as a paying customer to do this.

Ditto this.

I don't like riding unresponsive wooden-sided plods and ESPECIALLY wouldn't expect to pay to do so, either. Perhaps I AM less of an accomplished rider because I've never been bothered to struggle 'get a tune' of these sorts of 'depressed' and/or 'wiley' riding school animals within the short hour's slot of my expensive lessons, but then, so be it. I don't buy or keep such horses myself so it really doesn't matter if I don't choose to pay to learn to ride one of these types very well, does it?! LOL.

I have, however, backed and brought on a good number of tricky Arab, TB and WB youngsters to the point of a achieving a successful competitive level and being well mannered, happy individuals so neither do I consider myself a poor rider, either. Who cares what type of horse you choose to ride well? I don't consider myself better or worse than someone who can achieve miracles with a stereotypical riding school plod. Who's comparing anyhow???

 

[xspiralx]

I fail to see how a rider who can only get one type of horse to work can be classed as good!

Who says she can't get other types of horse going well, just because she chooses not to ride them?

I can get a lazy wooden horse working well but I don't particularly enjoy it, and certainly wouldn't want to be riding one if I was paying for a lesson to improve ME.

 

[somethingorother]

Surely that is just a list of skills possessed by a rider who is able to get whatever horse they are on work well?
Everyone has a personal preference about the types of horses they ride and thats sine as long as they are also able to ride other types.

I fail to see how a rider who can only get one type of horse to work can be classed as good!





Nothing as lovely as the horsey snob

Not really, some riding school horses wouldn't know a proper aid if it was given, they have spent years being kicked and pulled around and are bored/fed up/ just waiting to go back to their stable. Granted, there are many riding schools who do make sure their horses all get sat on by a decent rider (someone who works there!) so that they remain well schooled, but i have also been to many where the horses are barely 'schooled' at all.

 

[Onyxia]

Who says she can't get other types of horse going well, just because she chooses not to ride them?

Eh? When did I say that?
The topic opened with RS clients.
If you go to a RS, find you like one type of horse and never ride any other types you will only learn how to handle one type of horse.
A good rider MUST experience a variety of horses to be confident enough to get on whatever is given them.
That has nothing to do with your horse preference, but is simply ensuring you get a good well rounded start to your riding education.

I can get a lazy wooden horse working well but I don't particularly enjoy it, and certainly wouldn't want to be riding one if I was paying for a lesson to improve ME.

Quite so, but who knows when you will end up with one for whatever reason.
Better to have a skill you don't need then need a skill you don't have

 

[Onyxia]

Not really, some riding school horses wouldn't know a proper aid if it was given, they have spent years being kicked and pulled around and are bored/fed up/ just waiting to go back to their stable. Granted, there are many riding schools who do make sure their horses all get sat on by a decent rider (someone who works there!) so that they remain well schooled, but i have also been to many where the horses are barely 'schooled' at all.

I am well aware of that and TBH there is bugger all that can be done about it as long as people keep going to the crap schools.

However, teaching those types the correct aids is as important as knowing how to handle a fine tuned comp horse IMO.
As I have said before, you might not go out looking for a type you dislike, but you never know what you will end up with.
Missing out on huge sections of your education as a rider is silly.

 

[xspiralx]

Quite so, but who knows when you will end up with one for whatever reason.
Better to have a skill you don't need then need a skill you don't have

Quite, but as I said, it depends why one is having lessons at a riding school.

It may well be that this girl already has the skill to ride lazy ploddy horses and therefore does not want to be paying to ride them in lessons.