What makes a young dressage horse "grand prix potential?"

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LMR

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just a general musing but what makes a young dressage horse stand out to you (foal to unbacked 3 year old). you see in many adverts grand prix potential but can you really tell at this age? Surely their trainability and pace etc can not really been seen until under saddle and the work has started.
 
I certainly couldn't!

Not too sure if professionals can either. Maybe they buy horses that generally show potential, they know that they can, all things being equal, bring the horse to at least PSG and then decide whether to sell it for a profit or push onto GP?
 
I'm no dressage expert but have been payong a bit more of an interest recentlu as now have a half-decent dressage prospect. Wad watching Carl Hester on H&V tv...and he was sayong his mentor had said he could get 'any' horse to GP !? Not sure he mesnt 'any'...but it does make you wonder...
 
I think alot of horses could probably perform GP movements, but to a test standard and in a test sequence is a different thing.

I know I certainly couldn't pick out a GP potential, but I think I can recognise something.
 
Is there anything in particular you look for or is it just that something special you can see in front of you? i noticed that some pros seem to have horses with the same sires.
 
again I'm no expert but I think if you have a youngster before you and he has got naturally great paces - I mean, some horses have 1 better pace, some 2, but if all three are beautiful and correct than that means this horse has got an advantage over the rest; then, I think they'll be looking at their general "looks", so to say has this horse got the "look at me" factor? It's got to have great conformation too for GP potential. I understand a good, collaborative temperament with a capacity for concentration is also important, however I've heard many top horses are very difficult in their attitude.

however GP potential is a stretchy thing - you can get 40% in your GP test or 80% - these would both be GP tests wouldn't they :)
 
Most of the time the trainers & riders. So many ads say potential to go far in right hands etc but surely you could say that about every horse? If they are trained with a well balanced rider on board training them to use their muscles, lengthen strides, latetal work etc then almost every horse has a good chance in these circumstances.

There are so many horses you see going round like donkeys with the owners and then a trainer or decent rider gets on and voila they suddenly look like a very presentable dressage horse!

Also agree with eva theres a big difference between just doing a gp test and winning a gp test.
 
You can recognise outstanding movement when you see it. And with outstanding movement I mean really outstanding movement - when you read ads the horses are always, inevitably described as having "floating" or "super" paces and then when you see the video you see that the paces are actually just average.

You can definitely see that when the horses are young. One of my foals does the most beautiful passage to extended trot transitions in the field. As a nine-month-old weanling, he has more gears in trot than my advanced 11 year old! Those "gears" will hopefully stay with him as he grows older. Then you take a punt on temperament, though breeding can help there (there are sires known for passing on great trainability and there are others who aren't! ;) ).

Of course it's always a risk, that's why *generally speaking* the younger the horse the cheaper it is. If it was a science then there would be no market for ridden horses and everybody would just buy foals!

As for the "any horse can get to GP" question, I have definitely heard from several trainers that any *trained correctly* should get to PSG.
GP can be harder as piaffe (and one tempis!) can be big stumbling blocks for some horses.

Having said that, no serious trainer or rider will ever say "this horse is going to reach GP" -- simply because even if the ability is there, and even if the brain is there, so many things can go wrong in a horse's career that it's just stupid to tempt fate -- especially on something you have no control over.
 
FrodoBeutlin said:
As for the "any horse can get to GP" question, I have definitely heard from several trainers that any *trained correctly* should get to PSG.
GP can be harder as piaffe (and one tempis!) can be big stumbling blocks for some horses.
Click to expand...

As someone currently trying to teach one tempis, I wholeheartedly agree :p
 
Booboos said:
I have to say that I have also heard the 'any horse can get to PSG' from international/Olympic riders/trainers, but have not heard the same about GP.
Click to expand...

I think Carl Hester said just this on his tv show recently when he talked about Dr Becholsteimer (sp?).
 
It also depends on if you're talking about "getting" to GP or being competitive at GP, especially in this day and age. It wasn't that long ago you saw horses even at the top levels that really didn't have good quality passage/piaffe and changes. It was possible for a horse that didn't excel at the "big tour" movements but was strong in other areas to get in, although it certainly wasn't going to win, if there weren't enough other horses there capable of producing a good quality test in all areas.

Those days are long gone. Now there are so many horses that do those movements well naturally and have been suitably produced, that there aren't places left for horses that can't do them. Honest older trainers - who probably did get a fair number of "substandard" horses to that level in the past, would admit to it. I even know some horses that passage and piaffe well naturally and that used to be enough to get them through, but they wouldn't be competitive today because they don't have the whole package and/or weren't well enough produced.

I do think you can see the stars in any sphere. It's been a real eye opener to see top class foals in disciplines I only know in passing - harness racing, Western Pleasure etc. - even I can see they're in a whole different class. Many of the things we want to think we develop in a horse are really there or not, right from the get go.

Of course, that's no guarantee the horse will succeed - it's possible to take it all away, even from a phenomenally talented horse. And a top trainer might be able to produce very competitive work with a slightly lesser horse exceptionally well produced. But it will be beaten by the great natural talent equally well produced. Same with jumpers - there are A LOT of good jumping young horses now, but not everyone will get the chance to turn that into competitive success.

And there are other horses that at any stage on the way, might not LOOK like they're going to have the goods, for various reasons, but a change of trainer or similar produces a much more successful result. But I'd say those horses were a "9" to start, but were being ridden/produced to look like a "6" then someone else makes them look like an "8" and it seems extraordinary. You can never make a horse better than its raw material, but it's easy to make them worse.

So what I really think you can tell is if a horse WON'T make it to the top. I'd say generally now, more potential top horses make it into the right hands, although there must be many that don't. And top people don't always have the money to get the top horses, even as foals. But I do think every professional has struggled with more than one horse they realise, after the fact, was probably never going to really make it. But the struggle is educational and helps you - hopefully - not make the same mistake again.
 
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