What makes you 'cruel'?
- Thread starter MizElz
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Madam_max
Well-Known Member
Blimey
Blackhawk
Well-Known Member
Totally depends on individual circumstances.
MizElz
Well-Known Member
well, y'know, i've got a reputation for controversy now, thought id better live up to it
sunflower
Well-Known Member
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Totally depends on individual circumstances.
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Agreed! Take for example the whips / spurs question (as that seems to be a popular theme
) it's not whether you use them or not that determines 'cruelty' but how you use them.
Totally depends on individual circumstances.
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Agreed! Take for example the whips / spurs question (as that seems to be a popular theme
Chex
Well-Known Member
I don't think any of those makes you cruel.
MizElz
Well-Known Member
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I don't think any of those makes you cruel.
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i think that's kind of what i was getting at (although I myself answered 'yes' to a couple - hypocrit
). these are all issues that some people find 'controversial, yet if we really think about it, the issue of whether they are cruel or not depends purely, as Blackhawk said, on the circumstances.
I don't think any of those makes you cruel.
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i think that's kind of what i was getting at (although I myself answered 'yes' to a couple - hypocrit
Cobland
Well-Known Member
My friends ex horse went to the slaughterhouse when it was already dead, i didnt think that was cruel, IMO i wouldnt send a live horse there, but that just my opinion.
I picked that spurs are cruel from the way ive seen them being used! Like everything else, if used correctly then no its not cruel.
As for worming etc, if ones cant be arsed to do that then yes it is cruel. I keep a calendar at the yard and record when they had feet, teeth etc all done, its not hard to keep track.
As for horses getting fat, that really depends. Mae bloats when shes been out eating grass, she looks like a barrel if left out for a few days. Does that make me cruel??
I picked that spurs are cruel from the way ive seen them being used! Like everything else, if used correctly then no its not cruel.
As for worming etc, if ones cant be arsed to do that then yes it is cruel. I keep a calendar at the yard and record when they had feet, teeth etc all done, its not hard to keep track.
As for horses getting fat, that really depends. Mae bloats when shes been out eating grass, she looks like a barrel if left out for a few days. Does that make me cruel??
Sooty
Well-Known Member
I think not picking out your horse's feet every day may be borderline cruelty... As ever, it depends on circumstances and the individual horse, but on our clay soil it is essential.
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xspiralx
Guest
No to all, BUT I would make exceptions in some cases.
To me, leaving shoes on a couple of weeks longer than they should be is not cruel, its a bit negligent, but not cruel. Ditto letting your horse get a bit tubby,, ditto being a bit late on worming etc.
However if you're letting your horse get into bad shape because of this negligence, then thats when it becomes cruel.
To me, leaving shoes on a couple of weeks longer than they should be is not cruel, its a bit negligent, but not cruel. Ditto letting your horse get a bit tubby,, ditto being a bit late on worming etc.
However if you're letting your horse get into bad shape because of this negligence, then thats when it becomes cruel.
Mid
Well-Known Member
you are cruel if you carry a whip, use spurs, use a bit, shoe your horse, geld a stallion, raise your voice around your horse, ride in a saddle, ride your horse when he is not in the right mood, do something to your horse without asking his permission..
but seriously, i think twitches are cruel. and also not getting the farrier/dentist out or worming, if taken to extremes, is very cruel, but if your horse doesn't need the farrier out every six weeks on the dot, and his shoes and feet are fine, i honestly don't see why having him done a week or so later has any difference. oh, and i would never, ever send my horse away to be slaughtered, i would always have him put down at home, and i can't see why anyone else should do differently. everything else is just a case of 'you have to be cruel to be kind', and i don't have a problem with it. giving a horse a quick smack with a whip is better then constantly banging him with your heels! i'm a veggie, but i'm no more against horses being used for human consumption then i am other large livestock, as long as they are well looked after while they're alive.
but seriously, i think twitches are cruel. and also not getting the farrier/dentist out or worming, if taken to extremes, is very cruel, but if your horse doesn't need the farrier out every six weeks on the dot, and his shoes and feet are fine, i honestly don't see why having him done a week or so later has any difference. oh, and i would never, ever send my horse away to be slaughtered, i would always have him put down at home, and i can't see why anyone else should do differently. everything else is just a case of 'you have to be cruel to be kind', and i don't have a problem with it. giving a horse a quick smack with a whip is better then constantly banging him with your heels! i'm a veggie, but i'm no more against horses being used for human consumption then i am other large livestock, as long as they are well looked after while they're alive.
Weezy
Well-Known Member
Please explain why you think twitches are cruel?
I am cruel, according to general consensus, as I will happily stretch my shoeing to 8 weeks if I can
I am cruel, according to general consensus, as I will happily stretch my shoeing to 8 weeks if I can
hadfos
Well-Known Member
I think not worming(unless you are worm counting),feet not being done regularly,not picking feet out etc are cruel,these are necessaties to keep the horse sound and free from any unecessary suffering!!Being ABIT negligent is cruel,were do you draw the line at being a bit negligent??Your view on a bit negligent is probably completely different to somebody elses view of a bit negligent!!Negligent is not a word that should come into any animal care!
horsegirl
Well-Known Member
Me too!!!!
MizElz
Well-Known Member
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but seriously, i think twitches are cruel. and also not getting the farrier/dentist out or worming frequently. oh, and i would never, ever send my horse away to be slaughtered, i would always have him put down at home, and i can't see why anyone else should do differently. everything else is just a case of 'you have to be cruel to be kind', and i don't have a problem with it. i'm a veggie, but i'm no more against horses being used for human consumption then i am other large livestock, as long as they are well looked after while they're alive.
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i agree - except the human consumption bit - im afraid i will simply never get my head around horses being acceptable meat animals - they are better than humans, in my eyes, and should never be eaten.
but as far as the twitch is concerned i agree: i think they are horrid; why is it acceptable to inflict pain in one area, so that it doesnt notice pain/discomfort in another? not acceptable in my eyes....if your horse hates whatever you are trying to do to it that much, either sedate it, or give up!!!
but seriously, i think twitches are cruel. and also not getting the farrier/dentist out or worming frequently. oh, and i would never, ever send my horse away to be slaughtered, i would always have him put down at home, and i can't see why anyone else should do differently. everything else is just a case of 'you have to be cruel to be kind', and i don't have a problem with it. i'm a veggie, but i'm no more against horses being used for human consumption then i am other large livestock, as long as they are well looked after while they're alive.
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i agree - except the human consumption bit - im afraid i will simply never get my head around horses being acceptable meat animals - they are better than humans, in my eyes, and should never be eaten.
but as far as the twitch is concerned i agree: i think they are horrid; why is it acceptable to inflict pain in one area, so that it doesnt notice pain/discomfort in another? not acceptable in my eyes....if your horse hates whatever you are trying to do to it that much, either sedate it, or give up!!!
sunflower
Well-Known Member
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i think they are horrid; why is it acceptable to inflict pain in one area, so that it doesnt notice pain/discomfort in another? not acceptable in my eyes....if your horse hates whatever you are trying to do to it that much, either sedate it, or give up!!!
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But what if they are being twitched for a veterinary procedure where sedation is inappropriate?
i think they are horrid; why is it acceptable to inflict pain in one area, so that it doesnt notice pain/discomfort in another? not acceptable in my eyes....if your horse hates whatever you are trying to do to it that much, either sedate it, or give up!!!
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But what if they are being twitched for a veterinary procedure where sedation is inappropriate?
Christmas_Kate
Well-Known Member
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oh, and i would never, ever send my horse away to be slaughtered, i would always have him put down at home, and i can't see why anyone else should do differently.
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why on earth should evyone have to feel the same way? Having a horse PTS is a sticky subject at the best of times personally i believe in sendng them to the kennels but would never criticise anyone who didnt, and wouldnt expect anyone to criticise my feelings. I have friends who think sending a horse to kennels is cruel, but would be horrified if they tried to tll me what to think. I also personaly think having a horse PTS by lethal injection can be risky, but each to their own. It's a very personal thing.
oh, and i would never, ever send my horse away to be slaughtered, i would always have him put down at home, and i can't see why anyone else should do differently.
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why on earth should evyone have to feel the same way? Having a horse PTS is a sticky subject at the best of times personally i believe in sendng them to the kennels but would never criticise anyone who didnt, and wouldnt expect anyone to criticise my feelings. I have friends who think sending a horse to kennels is cruel, but would be horrified if they tried to tll me what to think. I also personaly think having a horse PTS by lethal injection can be risky, but each to their own. It's a very personal thing.
Mid
Well-Known Member
just a couple of bad experiences
i get the farrier out if my horsie needs it... could be 2 weeks, could be 8. i suppose it depends on the weather, and what sort of work he's doing.
i'm cruel by my friend's NH sister's veiws... i give my boy a good thump if he goes to bite/shove out stable door ect. but you have to be strict with them, they're massive critters and can be dangerous if they get too bolshy!
i get the farrier out if my horsie needs it... could be 2 weeks, could be 8. i suppose it depends on the weather, and what sort of work he's doing.
i'm cruel by my friend's NH sister's veiws... i give my boy a good thump if he goes to bite/shove out stable door ect. but you have to be strict with them, they're massive critters and can be dangerous if they get too bolshy!
MizElz
Well-Known Member
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i think they are horrid; why is it acceptable to inflict pain in one area, so that it doesnt notice pain/discomfort in another? not acceptable in my eyes....if your horse hates whatever you are trying to do to it that much, either sedate it, or give up!!!
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But what if they are being twitched for a veterinary procedure where sedation is inappropriate?
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good point, although i cant actually think of any time when mine have been twitched by a vet
surely sedation is possible in nearly all instances?
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i think they are horrid; why is it acceptable to inflict pain in one area, so that it doesnt notice pain/discomfort in another? not acceptable in my eyes....if your horse hates whatever you are trying to do to it that much, either sedate it, or give up!!!
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But what if they are being twitched for a veterinary procedure where sedation is inappropriate?
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good point, although i cant actually think of any time when mine have been twitched by a vet
trundle
Well-Known Member
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why is it acceptable to inflict pain in one area, so that it doesnt notice pain/discomfort in another? not acceptable in my eyes....if your horse hates whatever you are trying to do to it that much, either sedate it, or give up!!!
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Some people would say that stuffing a horse full of sedative chemicals to be able to performa a relatively quick task might be as cruel as inflicting pain on them for a short amount of time via a twitch. At least once the twitch is off, its off.
why is it acceptable to inflict pain in one area, so that it doesnt notice pain/discomfort in another? not acceptable in my eyes....if your horse hates whatever you are trying to do to it that much, either sedate it, or give up!!!
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Some people would say that stuffing a horse full of sedative chemicals to be able to performa a relatively quick task might be as cruel as inflicting pain on them for a short amount of time via a twitch. At least once the twitch is off, its off.
Mid
Well-Known Member
"i agree - except the human consumption bit - im afraid i will simply never get my head around horses being acceptable meat animals - they are better than humans, in my eyes, and should never be eaten. "
i agree that horses are better then humans!
but that's the thing - why are horses better then cattle/pigs/deer? shouldn't they get the same treatment?
"veterinary procedure where sedation is inappropriate?"
for example...?
i agree that horses are better then humans!
but that's the thing - why are horses better then cattle/pigs/deer? shouldn't they get the same treatment?
"veterinary procedure where sedation is inappropriate?"
for example...?
Christmas_Kate
Well-Known Member
would you sedate a shetland pony for it to be clipped?
The risk would be too great tbh...
also you cannot sedate before competition, so if you needed to clip the day before, or trim you'd have to twitch.
also you cannot sedate before competition, so if you needed to clip the day before, or trim you'd have to twitch.
Wishful
Well-Known Member
Twitching may be necessary to get the sedation needle in the vein for IV sedations (if the horse hates needles/vets that is). Also if a horse doesn't like needles but needs lots of injections, safer for all concerned (including the horse) - better he's not constantly being doped up, by whatever means.
Weezy
Well-Known Member
[quotebut as far as the twitch is concerned i agree: i think they are horrid; why is it acceptable to inflict pain in one area, so that it doesnt notice pain/discomfort in another? not acceptable in my eyes....if your horse hates whatever you are trying to do to it that much, either sedate it, or give up!!!
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Sorry but I am LMFAO here - you have no idea how a twitch works do you?!! It has naff all to do with pain, there is no pain inflicted!
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Sorry but I am LMFAO here - you have no idea how a twitch works do you?!! It has naff all to do with pain, there is no pain inflicted!
Teasel
Well-Known Member
Now if the word was 'negligent' and not 'cruel' my answers would have differed!
Wishful
Well-Known Member
Are the twitching points something to do with endorphins. OH has explained but I've forgotten. He keeps threatening to twitch me, which I'm not convinced about - I don't need injecting!
MizElz
Well-Known Member
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[quotebut as far as the twitch is concerned i agree: i think they are horrid; why is it acceptable to inflict pain in one area, so that it doesnt notice pain/discomfort in another? not acceptable in my eyes....if your horse hates whatever you are trying to do to it that much, either sedate it, or give up!!!
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Sorry but I am LMFAO here - you have no idea how a twitch works do you?!! It has naff all to do with pain, there is no pain inflicted!
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well, iv grown up having been taught that a twitch 'gives them something else to think about' ie. hurt their nose/lip, and they will ignore whatever else you are trying to do. if would care to enlighten me, id be most grateful, coz i dont think im alone in this belief....
[quotebut as far as the twitch is concerned i agree: i think they are horrid; why is it acceptable to inflict pain in one area, so that it doesnt notice pain/discomfort in another? not acceptable in my eyes....if your horse hates whatever you are trying to do to it that much, either sedate it, or give up!!!
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Sorry but I am LMFAO here - you have no idea how a twitch works do you?!! It has naff all to do with pain, there is no pain inflicted!
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xspiralx
Guest
Yeah yeah whatever. Ok, maybe I should say slapdash rather than negligent. As far as I am concerned, so long as the animal is not left damaged or in pain, I don't consider it cruel or a problem. I stretched my shoeing to 8 weeks all the time and I never had a lameness or soreness caused by it.
Put it this way - I wouldn't do anything to cause a horse of mine to suffer - but I may also not to everything 100% to the book and I don't consider that wrong.
Put it this way - I wouldn't do anything to cause a horse of mine to suffer - but I may also not to everything 100% to the book and I don't consider that wrong.
Mid
Well-Known Member
"Sorry but I am LMFAO here - you have no idea how a twitch works do you?!! It has naff all to do with pain, there is no pain inflicted!"
please explain then.
"would you sedate a shetland pony for it to be clipped?"
lol sounds typically shetlandish! xD why not just get the pony used to clippers during the summer, and then he won't have to be sedated or anything to be clipped in the winter....
"so if you needed to clip the day before, or trim you'd have to twitch."
and again, is it fair to inflict pain on horses for competitive reasons? my lil american friend said they did a lot of things to their gaited show horses that would be considered cruel and strange over here, but were normal for them... it depends how you're brought up i suppose...
please explain then.
"would you sedate a shetland pony for it to be clipped?"
lol sounds typically shetlandish! xD why not just get the pony used to clippers during the summer, and then he won't have to be sedated or anything to be clipped in the winter....
"so if you needed to clip the day before, or trim you'd have to twitch."
and again, is it fair to inflict pain on horses for competitive reasons? my lil american friend said they did a lot of things to their gaited show horses that would be considered cruel and strange over here, but were normal for them... it depends how you're brought up i suppose...
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xspiralx
Guest
MizElz, I believe a twitch works by causing endorphins to be released in the brain which then calms the horse.