What Next? - Bad Traveller

Crackerz

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So last week i ordered some Confidence EQ to take the edge off one of my boys whilst travelling. Yesterday I used both gels, to make sure i got him covered, i applied it 30 mins before loading, making sure to keep him calm at all times, which he was. He loaded ok, but calmer had zero effect. We got 20 mins down the road to a show an hour away and had to turn round and come back.
Now, for those on here that may know me in real life or through FB, they will know i never give up like that easily, but even i drew the line at the potential dangers.

He is ok on a motorway & dual carriageways but thats it.

My box i have is a 3.5t Equisport van conversion (converted in 2014). It has an emergency exit and is plenty big enough for him, he is 15hh. He has a good 3' behind and 2' above him when he stands quietly on the box. He acts exactly the same in my box as he does in a 7.5t.
I can't remove the partition as i can't risk him turning and double barreling at the side ramp which I assume isn't as reinforced as the bulk head. The partition is on the widest section though and he has plenty of room...

He is anxious/nervous. Nothing bad has ever happened unless it happened as a weanling but can't imagine he would remember that far back??

His nerves then turn to anger and he starts double barreling.

I understand it's partly a balance issue. I don't travel him in boots or bandages because he would go loopy if they slipped an inch & he doesn't need that added stress.
It's also partly maybe a slight claustrophobic issue too, but more in the sense of he is one of those horses that likes to decide 'i'm going over there' and then goes, as the crow fly's, taking out anything in his path!! (for instance he took out a 12m section of post and rail, including the upright stake, in bulldozer fashion when he wanted to go in the other field)

So what next?

I am thinking of travelling him for 15 mins 3x a week round the block.

Also, it's been suggested to talk to my vet and get something like Sedazine to help make the journeys calmer and help settle him on our practice runs. I have never had much luck from things like that in the past and am skeptical to say the least at using it travelling....

Desperately need help :(
 
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be positive

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Is he the same if he has company? obviously you cannot take another in the small box but in the 7.5 he could have company to see if that helps, I would also try a mirror, it sounds like a form of separation anxiety that sets him off so it may well work, you may need to move it about until you find the optimum place.
 

Crackerz

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Can you tie him up on the yard and in his stable alone with no hay or distractions for 30 mins without him kicking off?

Yes, he is a fidget by nature but normally if he has a haynet he will stand munching for as long as you want. He is very food orientated but won't eat on the box.

Is he the same if he has company? obviously you cannot take another in the small box but in the 7.5 he could have company to see if that helps, I would also try a mirror, it sounds like a form of separation anxiety that sets him off so it may well work, you may need to move it about until you find the optimum place.

I have considered company... i have a 13.2hh that is a fantastic traveler and my box would be under weight with them both on if i am not loaded up with tack, water etc. (1250kg payload). I am just wary of things going wrong and having 2 to sort out! I may need to bite the bullet and try them together with a confident friend.

Mirror!! I had this thought yesterday! I have a window into the box from the cab end, and he is constantly got his ears back looking at it, so maybe a mirror would bring his attention away from traveling itself and help?
 

FfionWinnie

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I asked if he would do so *without* hay or distractions.

He won't eat on the box because he is for whatever reason too distressed.

However, if he won't stand quietly without hay tied in his stable, that is your starting point for training him not to kick off when he's not getting his own way. You want to train him without your box getting kicked to pieces so start this important piece of training no where near it.
 

Blanche

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I don't know if you have posted before about things you have tried so I am just going to list some things I and others have done. If I repeat something you have tried, apologies.

If he travels on motorways and dual carriageways it is probably because you're not stopping and starting and the roads are smoother. I had one who hated the rattling and noise in the back so I used to stuff his ears to travel which helped. I had a couple of friends who eventually discovered that health issues caused their horses to travel badly. One horse had feet/ leg problems and the vibrations travelling made him go mad. The other horse had a back issue that made travelling a problem. These health issue were not apparent to the owners or vets until heavy duty work ups were done (expensive) but with treatment the issue was resolved. Someone else I know had trouble with her horse in a trailer and it was the tyre pressure that had gone down and caused problems with how the trailer handled. I think you said you had a lorry but still worth checking there are no problems with the lorry. Also have you checked for fumes getting in the lorry. Doesn't usually cause them to mess about but perhaps he doesn't like the smell lol.
 

Crackerz

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I asked if he would do so *without* hay or distractions.

He won't eat on the box because he is for whatever reason too distressed.

However, if he won't stand quietly without hay tied in his stable, that is your starting point for training him not to kick off when he's not getting his own way. You want to train him without your box getting kicked to pieces so start this important piece of training no where near it.

Sorry mis-read your post in my haste
He never kicks off at home, just fidget - lean over there to bite the wood, wander a half circle to bite stables wood the other side, chew leadrope. All very relaxed though. I trust him tied up 100% with no hay, his nature is just a fidget bum
 

FfionWinnie

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Well my point is you need to train him to stand still, not fidget. He can't do that in the box, which is likely at least part of why he is showing his displeasure. Then he needs to stand completely quietly on the box without it moving. Until it's boring enough that he will stand and eat hay/go to sleep. I've trained many many many horses to travel impeccably. I'm unfortunately sick of writing it all out and people ignoring it so I'm not going to repeat myself but I've posted many times on similar threads if you are interested enough to do a search. Every single stage of the training is important, to get a calm traveller. Mirrors, lickits, companions or whatever else is just a sticking plaster. Train the horse for life and never have an issue again.
 

Fiona

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I have two mares who are absolute fidgets tied on the yard but travel perfectly. .

OP how did your horse travel on the 7.5 ton box? Was it side facing? Am assuming your own box is rear facing?

We had a mare who got a fright in a trailer and from then on would only travel in one with no partition so she could really spread her legs. She travels perfectly sideways in a lorry even when space is quite tight..

You need to isolate your horses specific problem. . Lack of company, not enough space, doesn't like facing forward etc then try to solve it..

Fiona
 

smja

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We have one who actually travels better when properly wedged in by the partitions - he seems to feel more secure that way. Maybe worth a try?
That said, he's not a bad traveller in wide partitions - he spaces out then almost falls over if you stop/start/turn (even gently), then gets himself a bit worried about it.
 

Annagain

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Have you tried him on the other side of the partition? If he's worried on smaller roads but ok on motorways and dual carriageways, it could be a balance thing. Mine can't handle left turns if he's on the right hand side of the trailer, but is fine on the left. He's fine on the big roads as they're much straighter.
 

ossy

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Mine travels better properly wedged in too and only herringbone or forward facing, didn't like backwards. I'd say if he's ok on motorways then it's likely to be a balance thing when stopping/starting and winding on country roads.
 

irishdraft

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I would think that it is definitely a balance problem if he travels on motorways etc fine then it is not the travelling as such although you say ths partition is on the widest point it may still not b enough I would take out the partition and cross tie to prevent turning & then go round the block to test him. My mare is a tricky traveller but will travel in the trailor with no partition even with another horse with her but if I have the partition in & opened to give her room she throws herself to the floor
 

leflynn

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Sounds like a balance issue if fine on larger roads - have you had his back checked? Also worth trying on the other side as I know horses that prefer the 'other' side. Would also try teaching him to stand and not fidget off the box - handy in any circumstance. Also worth trying a companion, diff mode of transport, trailer with/without partition
 

muckypony

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I have one who was a terrible traveler. So noisy, to the point that I used to cry to myself whilst driving! It was horrible. I have a herringbone 3.5t and always thought that was the issue. I have since moved the partition really wide so he basically has the whole box. I also make a conscious effort now to go down through the gears instead of braking and he is so much better - he too was always fine on motorways so I figured it must be my driving even though I'm really slow and careful. Most of the time now you rarely hear a peep from him but he is always noisy when you get to a venue and when you pull up at home.

A lot of it for him is routine, he was really bad over the winter when I rarely took him out but now he's back to going out pretty much every weekend and he's been a dream, I love taking him out now. he'll never be the perfect loader/traveler/stander on the lorryer! But he is much better.
 

asmp

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Will just add to the comment about noise from rattles (stand in a grass field at a show and listen to some of the trailers and lorries coming in!) - was advised to cover anything that might rattle in vet wrap.
 

J&S

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Also, do try Rescue Remedy. This will be most helpful if your horse is actually stressed whilst travelling, rather than just being impatient or obstreperous, in which case FW's training methods would be of more use. Drive slowly and on the non motorway roads and take the ups/downs into consideration as well as the bends.
 

Deltic Blue

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Lots of great advice here! :)
I don't have anything to add, but Izzy went through a phase of being VERY naughty to load in my van conversion, then when she was on she would not stand still and got wound up. She also doesn't like loud rattling or big pot holes, she'll let us know her opinion, but is as quiet as a mouse on dual carriageways and motorways.
I just started with daily loading practice and feeding her on the box so she was relaxed as she is a stressy horse by nature and doesn't like being confined to small spaces. Now I load her up with plenty of time to spare, all doors open, let her settle, give her some pony nuts then get on the way. I made a point of loading her up and leaving her on the box whilst we sorted jumps out when we went to rectory with all the doors open, but she couldn't get out and she was nice and calm :)

I hope it works out and you find a solution as he looks like a lovely horse :)
 
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