What noseband do you use for BD, for horses who prefer a grackle?

[cptrayes]

As you have posted the vid on your blog, thus asking for CC, i presume you wont mind me re posting it here as a training exercise so we can all *learn* from it?

Yes of course I would mind that. I have a blog precisely so that I can control what comments are made on it. I do not solicit praise, or criticism, for my riding by posting on this forum. If you have comments to make please post them on my blog, bearing in mind that I am riding at a much lower level than either you or your sister as far as dressage is concerned. I would also be grateful if you would read at least two years of text too, because it is likely that whatever constructive criticism you might choose to make has already been made by me of myself.

I highly recommend you, should you continue to dislike people posting on your threads, to have a blog of your own instead. Blogspot.co.uk is very good, and free.

 

[cptrayes]

This cptrayes is your first post I have no axe to grind here at all but the tone of your post is rude it may not have been your intention but that's how it reads .
OP wanted advice, not to be used for someone to jump on a soap box ,you give advice and then says it bugs you because it's legal and describe it as complete nonsense it's allowed , what was OP going to feel after reading that ?
Not good ,not that she had recieved helpful advice confused perhaps.
You have given me a great deal of help and advice in the past so sadly I say this was not well done.

The negative that you read is entirely your own interpretation and not what I wrote. I consider it daft that grackles are banned and the high-flash-crank-noseband is not. It is the banning of one and not the other that is daft, it does not matter which one is the banned one. In my opinion, which many people will disagree with, they should either allow both or ban both. The grackle is, after all, allowed in BE dressage.

My own wish would be for all horses to compete in dressage without their mouths strapped shut, but that's a different thread entirely.

 

[cptrayes]

It is, by the way, obvious that some posters are talking of Mexican grackles. I specifically stated English grackle, because they sit much lower on the top strap than a Mexican one can be fitted. Mexican ones are about all I see these days, so I would guess that some people have never even seen an English one.

 

[Goldenstar]

The negative that you read is entirely your own interpretation and not what I wrote. I consider it daft that grackles are banned and the high-flash-crank-noseband is not. In my opinion, which many people will disagree with, they should either allow both or ban both.

My own wish would be for all horses to compete without their mouths strapped shut.

You make your view clear here you don't think horses should wear flashes and the like funnily enough neither do I , I don't use them on any of the horses I have ATM .
And you did write " it bugs me " and " it's a complete nonsense" so you did give advice and then infer that was something ' not right ' ( my words ) with doing this.
I don't want all horses to complete without flashes and the like I want riders to train their horses and the competition will sort out who's doing best overall.

 

[cptrayes]

As for having more control with the noseband up higher. Why? It's the tightness that alters the control whether low or high.

The strength that the horse can put behind opening his mouth and crossing his jaw depends on the leverage. A long lever is much stronger in its effect than a short lever. If you can shorten the leverage the horse can get on his jaw by restricting it higher up, it will be easier to prevent a horse from opening his mouth.

I'm not saying you cannot questions people and their methods but you don't question, you attack or post in a way that you know will get a reaction. If you disagree then look back at many of your posts and read them how others would, often rude and condescending.

It is very easy to read postings with an imagined intonation which the poster never meant. My use of English also puts people's backs up sometimes because they read a superior attitude into it. I suggest that you re-read some of my posts, especially any on Nikki's blog threads, assuming that I am the nicest person in the world, which I am not, and then see how they sound.


Can we remind ourselves please, that I have criticised no-one and nothing on this thread. If you read it otherwise, it is not what I wrote or intended.

 

[ihatework]

I think certain HHO users could argue white was black if they so felt like it.
PS/NM I'd be inclined not to get the thread pulled. It kind of shows up a lot of true colours.
I also found blog viewing fascinating.

 

[cptrayes]

You make your view clear here you don't think horses should wear flashes and the like funnily enough neither do I , I don't use them on any of the horses I have ATM .
And you did write " it bugs me " and " it's a complete nonsense" so you did give advice and then infer that was something ' not right ' ( my words ) with doing this.
I don't want all horses to complete without flashes and the like I want riders to train their horses and the competition will sort out who's doing best overall.

Would it surprise you to know that I have found some of what you have written about me on other threads upsetting? Then I reread it with the nicest interpretation I can give it and let it go. assuming that the way I read it was not what you meant.

You read inference where none was intended. It does bug me that ONE is allowed and NOT the other. I don't give a damn which is banned and which is allowed, there is no value judgement here except that banning one without the other is, for me but not other people, a bit daft.

Fine, you are happy with competing with flashes. No problem. I'd just love to see what those horses would do without them on., personally.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

I have NO problem if people chose to CC a pic that I have posted on MY thread, what i do take exception to is the use of Nics pic, on a thread she had no part it, without HER or the photographers permission.

As being as you provide a link/adress for your blog, on HHO, i would by your logic presume its ok to re post said link, to the post including your vid, on here for CC, bit of a grey area maybe........perhaps you should consider how that would make you feel before stooping so low as to do it yourself.

by the same logic, please refrain from further commenting on any of either mine or Nic's threads, posts, pics or vids (ref to Fig or CS) unless you have trawled back and read every comment ever made on either horse, because you wouldnt want to post out of context or irrelevant CC........would you......

 

[cptrayes]

I also found blog viewing fascinating.

That's nice of you to say so. My boys and their exploits do have quite a following

 

[cptrayes]

I have NO problem if people chose to CC a pic that I have posted on MY thread, what i do take exception to is the use of Nics pic, on a thread she had no part it, without HER or the photographers permission.

As being as you provide a link/adress for your blog, on HHO, i would by your logic presume its ok to re post said link, to the post including your vid, on here for CC, bit of a grey area maybe........perhaps you should consider how that would make you feel before stooping so low as to do it yourself.

by the same logic, please refrain from further commenting on any of either mine or Nic's threads, posts, pics or vids (ref to Fig or CS) unless you have trawled back and read every comment ever made on either horse, because you wouldnt want to post out of context or irrelevant CC........would you......

For the last time, I hope?

I HAVE NOT CRITICISED ANYTHING ABOUT THE PICTURE I HAVE RECOMMENDED THE OP TO ADOPT IT.


The horse is a beauty, the noseband rig is legal and normal in BD.

 

[RunToEarth]

Putting aside the personal arguments going on here, I have found this rather interesting.

On the right hand side of my screen there is an advert to H&H subs with a grey horse wearing a flash on the cover, I would say my fitting of a flash is not dissimilar to that - am I fitting it incorrectly/causing my horses any pain? I have a pet hate of very low flashes and after reading this I am slightly concerned I have over compensated by fitting mine too high. I didn't see anything wrong with NM's fitting of the noseband and would question why BD hadn't banned it if there were?

I never usually involve myself in the noseband debates, I've tried all sorts over the years and I am happy to use whatever the horses' are most happy with, for that reason I never really seem to have an opinion on anyone elses' noseband choices - I don't compete BD or any D for that matter and so never had an issue with my choices. I once went to a hunter trial in a kineton and got such a rude ear full from someone who evidently had absolutely no idea what it was or how the horse went, I can understand NM's frustration at your criticisms of her choice.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

for the last time, i hope?

i dont care what you have said about the pic, it wasnt yours to use and you could have at least had the manners to ask first if you were so desperate to use it.

what you are saying is inaccurate anyway as you have used it to back up your theory about people trying to get flashes to be grackles, which is not something Nic or I have ever done/tried to do and not something the pic clearly shows. Thus pic is out of context and should not be recieving any CC of any form, as you have not picked an accurate/truthful pic: many more people agree it IS correctly adjusted as a flash, than think (like you) its being used as a grackle, so its clearly not a good example of your theory as no one can see what you are talking about, and it would be most polite if you would apologise for using it full stop.

Run to Earth-i would think your noseband is fine, as i would hasten a guess the owner, rider and groom of Cornet Obolensky have a pretty good idea how to fit a flash despite it shockingly not being totally level!!!!!

 

[JFTDWS]

CPT, you are missing a fundamental point - this is NOT nmt's thread. She didn't post the photo here for you to cc or judge (and regardless of your comments, you are judging negatively by implication - and let's not forgot your history of making snarky comments about these two too).

I found your blog fascinating too. But please don't take that as a compliment.

 

[Goldenstar]

Would it surprise you to know that I have found some of what you have written about me on other threads upsetting? Then I reread it with the nicest interpretation I can give it and let it go. assuming that the way I read it was not what you meant.

You read inference where none was intended. It does bug me that ONE is allowed and NOT the other. I don't give a damn which is banned and which is allowed, there is no value judgement here except that banning one without the other is, for me but not other people, a bit daft.

Fine, you are happy with competing with flashes. No problem. I'd just love to see what those horses would do without them on., personally.

Yes it would suprise me greatly that I have upset you , perhaps I misjudged you my assumption was that as you show no hesitation in expressing forthright views that you allow the same courtesy to others .

 

[ihatework]

Putting aside the personal arguments going on here, I have found this rather interesting.

On the right hand side of my screen there is an advert to H&H subs with a grey horse wearing a flash on the cover, I would say my fitting of a flash is not dissimilar to that - am I fitting it incorrectly/causing my horses any pain? I have a pet hate of very low flashes and after reading this I am slightly concerned I have over compensated by fitting mine too high. I didn't see anything wrong with NM's fitting of the noseband and would question why BD hadn't banned it if there were?

I never usually involve myself in the noseband debates, I've tried all sorts over the years and I am happy to use whatever the horses' are most happy with, for that reason I never really seem to have an opinion on anyone elses' noseband choices - I don't compete BD or any D for that matter and so never had an issue with my choices. I once went to a hunter trial in a kineton and got such a rude ear full from someone who evidently had absolutely no idea what it was or how the horse went, I can understand NM's frustration at your criticisms of her choice.

In answer to this specifically, my personal preference is to fit the cavesson (whether being used as a cavesson or as a flash) as high up the horses head as is possible, provided visually it looks correct for the horses head shape and not too high that it rubs the horses cheekbones. I would tend to go more for 1 finger than 2 if I'm honest.
In terms of tightness, inevitibly if a flash is done up pretty tight then it will pull the cavesson down a bit - I personally would aim to not put myself in that situation and would use just a cavesson, drop or a loosish flash if at all possible.

My pet hate is that look of a too low cavesson pulled down further by a flash!

 

[cptrayes]

Yes it would suprise me greatly that I have upset you , perhaps I misjudged you my assumption was that as you show no hesitation in expressing forthright views that you allow the same courtesy to others .

It is not a question of courtesy, it is a question of how easy it is to read a post in a 'tone of voice' which was not what the poster intended and have it change the meaning/apparent intent.

This post of yours, for example, can be read as very aggressive in the wrong tone of voice, but I will do you the courtesy of assuming that is not the tone in which you have written it.

 

[Goldenstar]

Meanwhile Aflapjack try a micklem which has no pressure over the molars which is the usual reason horses dislike flashes , and enjoy your competitions.

 

[MadJ]

Long term, quiet user here...
It's times like this that really cement in my head why I'm so reluctant to post ANY pics or vids of my horses ANYWHERE online. Once you have put those online, you have lost control over who can view, reuse and comment on them.

Although it's rather coincidental CPT has used a pic of another HHOers horse, it is not beyond the realms of comprehension that the very same pic has been used elsewhere for a different purpose. Unfortunately posting pics and vids on an open forum leaves you open to them being used without your permission.

I could go through many threads on here, and the likes of faceache, and lift the pics out for my own use without having to gain anyone's permission (not that I would). That's the drawback of modern technology sadly.

I would dearly love to use this forum for cc of my own riding and horses as there's some fantastic people on here who'd give me some great input but having had my own for sale ad pic used by someone else, I can't bring myself to do it.

Having said that, there are ways of phrasing comments to not sound like a personal attack, particularly involving regular posters who have bought a lot of helpful information.

I fully accept that people can read something in a different and out of context to how that poster meant it. Maybe reading what you have written from someone elses eyes, before posting, would be something to try in future.

I'm now going to crawl back under my rock and hide.

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Once a photo is posted on a public domain, the subject cannot censor opinion or reference to the photo, unless some tries to pretend they own or ride the horse.

Just as people starting a thread do not own the thread in order to prevent those who they disagree with from posting on it.

Anything you post can come and bite you on the bum at a later date, you just have to accept that opinions are just that. Opinions, and readers can reach their own conclusions.

As to the OP's question, no idea, none of mine wear a grackle.

 

[humblepie]

Funnily enough both my horses have appeared in posts from other users - one today which is from a blog so yes totally available and if I knew how to post photos I would have done so myself.

The other was quite funny - was a photo someone was using to show correct showing wear and my horse was the horse!

Re nosebands, I show so we just use a cavesson so can't help at all.

 

[*hic*]

Funnily enough both my horses have appeared in posts from other users - one today which is from a blog so yes totally available and if I knew how to post photos I would have done so myself.

The other was quite funny - was a photo someone was using to show correct showing wear and my horse was the horse!

There's another post where someone has happily posted another forum user's photo too. But this case, well, it did give a few people a chance to try to knock chunks off each other and air their grievances.

FWIW, if you don't want your photos posted then you need to make photobucket private - lots of people have now trawled through NMT's piccies. It's also a bit pointless to get outraged about your photos being posted when they are all over FB for all to see and, up until halfway through this thread, advertised in your sig!


However, NMT, if you want to have some fun, now that the link is posted if you change the photo on PB to something entirely different but make sure you save it with exactly the same filename you could make cpt's post illustrate, for example, an elephant sitting on a potty or a beautiful rainbow Or you could just watermark it "not authorised for use" or some other phrase.

 

[nikkimariet]

There's another post where someone has happily posted another forum user's photo too. But this case, well, it did give a few people a chance to try to knock chunks off each other and air their grievances.

FWIW, if you don't want your photos posted then you need to make photobucket private - lots of people have now trawled through NMT's piccies. It's also a bit pointless to get outraged about your photos being posted when they are all over FB for all to see and, up until halfway through this thread, advertised in your sig!


However, NMT, if you want to have some fun, now that the link is posted if you change the photo on PB to something entirely different but make sure you save it with exactly the same filename you could make cpt's post illustrate, for example, an elephant sitting on a potty or a beautiful rainbow Or you could just watermark it "not authorised for use" or some other phrase.

All the photos, bar a few of my cats, will have been posted on here. There is nothing on there that would be detrimental to myself, should it be seen by friend or foe.

The point of the matter that it is not right or acceptable, to use another persons photos in full knowledge that you do not have their permission. And it is really sour faced to use it, in a hilariously obviously negative light.

Fact; it is my photo, of me and my horse, and it belongs to me (and Sol).

Whilst I couldn't have stopped this from happening (within reason, and having never imagined cptrayes to be quite this ruthless and nasty), and I posted my photo myself, first. It does not make what she has done 'right.'

BD-ing this weekend, so there will be plenty of pictures of my kissing spines horse in his grackle, with his eating disorder ridden rider on board. Enjoy, cptrayes

ETA jemima*askin - I may change the picture to a big dog turd?.... Although that would throw up questions about the rest of my photobucket account content...

 

[Tiarella]

Can't quote as on phone but actually laughing out loud at your second to last comment above "eating disorder ridden rider on board" ahahaa!!

 

[PolarSkye]

Long term, quiet user here...
It's times like this that really cement in my head why I'm so reluctant to post ANY pics or vids of my horses ANYWHERE online. Once you have put those online, you have lost control over who can view, reuse and comment on them.

Although it's rather coincidental CPT has used a pic of another HHOers horse, it is not beyond the realms of comprehension that the very same pic has been used elsewhere for a different purpose. Unfortunately posting pics and vids on an open forum leaves you open to them being used without your permission.

I could go through many threads on here, and the likes of faceache, and lift the pics out for my own use without having to gain anyone's permission (not that I would). That's the drawback of modern technology sadly.

I would dearly love to use this forum for cc of my own riding and horses as there's some fantastic people on here who'd give me some great input but having had my own for sale ad pic used by someone else, I can't bring myself to do it.

Having said that, there are ways of phrasing comments to not sound like a personal attack, particularly involving regular posters who have bought a lot of helpful information.

I fully accept that people can read something in a different and out of context to how that poster meant it. Maybe reading what you have written from someone elses eyes, before posting, would be something to try in future.

I'm now going to crawl back under my rock and hide.

Please don't crawl under your rock . . . this is the most sensible post in this whole playground-fest by far.

FWIW, I don't think CPT intended any offense in either her actions or her (initial) words . . . that's not how I read it anyway.

P

 

[JFTDWS]

Actually, I'm pretty sure posting photos in the public domain does not make them public property - copyright etc still stands.

Aside from that, there is an issue of etiquette - and cptrayes knew fine well whose photo she was posting when she chose it. Context is everything - and the difference between the post in TR where the poster linked the photo with a tag line like "how great is this horse, I want one!". Not quite the same as "use this set up to mimic a grackle and get round the BD rule banning them" is it?

 

[JenJ]

However, NMT, if you want to have some fun, now that the link is posted if you change the photo on PB to something entirely different but make sure you save it with exactly the same filename you could make cpt's post illustrate, for example, an elephant sitting on a potty or a beautiful rainbow Or you could just watermark it "not authorised for use" or some other phrase.

ETA jemima*askin - I may change the picture to a big dog turd?.... Although that would throw up questions about the rest of my photobucket account content...

Do it do it do it! OK, not a dog turd, but *something*...

 

[Tr0uble]

If there's one thing that bugs me, it's when someone makes a thinly veiled snidey comment, and then presumes the rest of the world stupid by insisting that it was actually a PERFECTLY innocent comment and everyone has taken it the wrong way!

As far as I'm concerned, make as many snidey comments as you like as long as you grow a pair and admit the spirit in which it was intended.

Cuz, y'know, most of us have a couple of brain cells to rub together and know exactly how you meant it.

 

[Alec Swan]

Now that the steam has evaporated, I've some thoughts;

cptrayes and I have locked horns, almost to the point of bloodshed, both by pm and publicly. Whilst our discussions have been heated, I don't ever remember an occasion, when she's been either malicious, or spiteful. However outspoken she has been, and her ire has been aimed at me, I've never been offended. I sometimes wonder if we aren't too quick sometimes, to shout first, and then subsequently, think. When it comes to battles with cpt, you lot are none starters!

I accept, and she may too, that it wouldn't have hurt to either ask to use the pics supplied by another, or at least, tipped her cap to the person who's pic she borrowed, to illustrate her point.

Just as when we place a pic in the public arena, and we release it, then when we start a thread, and we turn it loose, we don't actually own it, and it's available for public, use, abuse and ridicule, if needs be. Quite clearly, such borrowing of pics will have been reported to Admin, but it would seem that they've taken the same view as the apparent minority, in that neither copyright nor rules have been breached.

To the poster who's pic was apparently plagiarised, I thought that a well fitting flash, and an excellent illustration of its use!! Should I ever have need of it, to illustrate my point, then I shall ask first!

Despite the raised temperature, the points of noseband usage have been interesting.

Alec.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

Alec, that all very true , but there's *rules* and there's manners ......it's completely diff to use a pic, then find out its a HHO'ers pics and whoops didn't realise and apologise........CPT knew whose pic it was but still didn't have the manners to ask first. An unwritten rule perhaps but one that most HHO'ers respect and would expect the courtesy of being asked.

As long as CPT Is willing to accept the very same lack of courtesy, I presume there is little more to be said.

 

[Moomin1]

It is not fitted as a normal cavesson. A normal cavesson sits straight around the nose, not bent down like this in front. The back strap is right up by his jowls and there is a pronounced drop in the front half. If you google flash nosebands you will see plenty of them fitted without pulling the cavesson down the nose.

The proof of the pudding in that photo is that if you took off the flash and set the cavesson straight on its own, it would look as if it was fitted ridiculously high.

As for the outrage as to the use of the picture, it was published on another thread for everyone to comment.

Will everyone accusing me of a vendetta of some kind please note the fact that it was Princess who said that I was talking rubbish when I was not, and I have simply pointed to a picture which was already in the public domain on this very forum illustrating exactly what I was talking about.

ETA - I think the flash in that picture is a shocking example of poor fit.
I actually fully agree with all of this.