What on earth do i do with this pony?

I do so feel for you and hope your daughter is feeling a little better - physically and emotionally. It is so hard to decide if just one more examination, or one more supplement might make the breakthrough you are looking for but it sounds as if he has a complicated collection of problems that would take dedicated, long term care to sort out. I am not suggesting that you would not/could not do this but your priority has to be your family and their safety. Having travelled this path before you the decider for me was my vet's advice and also that of an animal communicator that everything was just too much and too difficult to unravel for my boy. I have no regrets in letting him go. You obviously have a loving home waiting for another little chap, as ycbm says, just needing to get out of welfare.
 
Gloi said:
May be simply a case of having rose tinted glasses when viewing the pony. So easy to do if not too experienced.
Click to expand...

Yes. Until you've been round the block a few times, you might think that no-one would knowingly sell a tricky pony to a child. If pony was completely shut down, he wouldn't display those behaviours , not enough to pick up if you're not looking for problems. After 18 months of care and relative freedom and comfort (even the best RS life is very different to a private home) maybe he is feeling increasingly able to express himself - and so he is. I've seen versions of this, (though not this extreme) so it's not impossible. Doesn't help the OP though, other than to suggest it need not be new issues causing recent behaviour.
 
I've been in the situation where a horse hurts or scares you one too many times and you lose trust in them. And it's horrible. I had a get out of jail free card in that I could pass the problem back by returning him to the place from wence he came. I also don't think he was in pain or actually trying to hurt us... We just didn't have the right set up to manage him so very different really, but still scary and painful.

I wouldn't throw a huge amount of money at this pony, he doesn't sound like a happy boy and finding and fixing his physical problem, if it's still there, doesn't necessarily mean that the behaviour stops. It might. But there's no guarantees. I might go for finding a really good equine vet to come do one thorough examination and discuss options. Only perform diagnostics if they are going to significantly change the outcome and aren't prohibitively expensive.

I suspect he was shut down when you tried him and now he's come out of his she'll and you've inherited someone else's problem.

Also it is worth noting that not every horse in significant physical pain tries to kick children in the head after bucking them off! There's not just a pain issue, there's a temperament issue too. If there was no pain the temperament might not be actually murderous but I suspect he isn't going to be all sweetness and light even on his best day.
 
Put him to sleep may sound cruel but he can’t get passed around as a project pony or run into the ground. He’s not a suitable companion In anyway.

Yes it could be pain or it could just be behaviour but at least euthanasia if kindest option as he will not be suffering mentally or physically.
Too many horses like this are passed on.
 
southerncomfort said:
Gosh what an unpleasant person you are.
He has had a check over from the vet but not the complete works yet which I have said I will do.

I posted last night in complete shock after seeing my daughter kicked in the head which is a new low for him. He has periods where his behaviour is better which lulls us in to a false sense of security.

I've always respected your opinions and always followed your advice but I have zero respect for people who get a kick out of knocking someone when they are down. It costs nothing to be kind and makes it much more likely that you will listened to if you put your point across respectfully.
Click to expand...


I am sorry that you didn't like my answer and of course, I wish your daughter well but I doubt very much that the pony was doing anything other than trying to get rid of the 'thing' that was causing him pain - it's an instinctive reaction, just watch a zebra getting rid of a predator!

I am not against pts at any age on welfare grounds but i am against the concept, that some posters seemed to be advocating of putting this pony to sleep, without properly investigating the cause of the problem and getting another, as if they were bikes. i don't think that is a good lesson to teach a child and I wouldn't do it. I certainly wouldn't let any child ride the pony until the vet gave the all clear.

You have described several problems and talked about physios and supplements, which tbh I think are a waste of money unless you know what you are treating. I had a WelshDxTB who we were ready to pts because of behaviour problems - she was unrideable and almost un-leadable, even though several vets had examined her. By chance we found the cause was feed and kept her for another 12 years. So I am sympathetic to your problem but I think you have gone the wrong way about getting to the bottom of it - and tbh i don't think much to your physio's opinions.

And I doubt that I am the only one who would be wary of loaning to a family that didn't attempt to find the cause of obviously serious pain before pts.

I hope that you do manage to sort it out, that your daughter's confidence and yours are not too dented to allow her to ride another pony and that she is making a good physical recovery from the fall.
 
Id get your vet to scope for ulcers and an examination, and then try a two week bute trial, If that doesn't throw up an obvious cause for misbehaving, then put to sleep.
If he isn't going to be trustworthy around people he is too dangerous to pass on.
I have experience of ulcers causing a horse to constantly hold its shoulders in tight so that it look as narrow as a foal, and was bad tempered to lead and saddle - but they are all different.
Good luck and dont feel too bad if you can't find the cause, you've given it a good shot.
 
Sometimes you just have to accept that not all animals are 'sane'. I bought a foal, who was handled like all the others I have ever owned. He was always difficult and unreliable, but never agressive. I could have never sold him as a childs pony so when an adult I knew was looking for something I gave him to them on the understanding if he was no good he would be shot. After two years of sometimes he would be really good and then other days very bad, and yes he had a vet assesment, they had to admit that he was never going to be fully trustworthy, so he was PTS.
I was attacked by a pony when I was sixteen, completely out of the blue, it cornered me in a stable, and I ended up with hoof prints on my chest and a black eye, if it had been further away it would have killed me, but it rammed me in a corner. I know of at least two people who have been killed by a single kick to the head so its just not worth the risk. I would turn it away somewhere so you daughter doesn't have to feel responsible for what ever happens.
I have been though all the stages with ponies and children and a bit like a dog that bites, any thing who's purpose in life is to be a childs pony gets no second chance. I have bought ponies with managable problems but I have never had one that I thought with supervison it wouldn't be safe for a child to handle or ride. As an adult the saftey of any child must be your first piority.
 
There was another similar case on here recently where the owner decided the only thing she could do with a "problem" horse was PTS..........

Sadly, there are some horses who for whatever reason, and after every possible "last chance" as well as costing a fortune in veterinary investigations etc., are never alas gonna come good.

As a "companion", you could never be sure that someone, somewhere, isn't going to try riding him and/or he hurts them without them even being in the saddle; and you have to ask yourself whether you could live with your conscience if that happened.

It is a pity you cannot get any redress from the person who sold the pony to you, they obviously knew what he was like and yet sold him on without a conscience, but this happens unfortunately.

You could spend a fortune on vet. examinations and get nowhere TBH.

Of course there are certain options with a pony like this: the most obvious one being to send to market without a warranty (where you know he'll be picked up by the meat man).....

Or something else you could consider - at least this way you'd get some of your money back - would be to contact your local knackerman, who could then come out and do the job in situ so you know he's not been stressed by being sent off anywhere, and you'd then get "deadweight" payment for the carcass. It wouldn't be as much as you'd get if he went to a specialist horse abbatoir "for human consumption", but at least you would have something, and would have the comfort of knowing that you'd done the very best you could, humanely. Our local knackerman has an excellent reputation and is renowned for doing a difficult job well.

Frankly, and sadly, there may be only one option open to you.

Feel aggrieved on your behalf that you're in this position; unfortunately you've been well and truly "had".
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
Feel aggrieved on your behalf that you're in this position; unfortunately you've been well and truly "had".
Click to expand...
Me too. I watched the previous owner get the pony in from the field and hose his legs, the pony stood like a rock, my daughter hacked him out with the owners son, we had him vetted and picked him up 3 days later. No chance of getting a hose anywhere near him, he was a rearer and constantly stressed. Although it was a private sale, I found out later that it was a dealer and I will never buy from one again without a dope test. However he never kicked - if he had I doubt that he would still be here, but I like you was left with a child's pony who wasn't a child's pony. So you have all my sympathy.
 
southerncomfort said:
Very long, sorry.

18 mths ago we purchased a small cob for our 12 year old novice daughter from private sellers who couldn't say enough good things about him.

In those 18 mths we've all been bitten (daughters arms are black and blue), I've been kicked in the thigh and my daughter has been knocked to the ground. He bucked daughter off once too but I put it down to the fact that he'd spooked and she'd become unseated.

Tonight he bucked off my older daughter and then kicked her in head for good measure and he damn well meant it!

We've tried for 18 mths to get on top of all his undesirable behaviours but although he'll improve for a short time nothing seems to stick.

He is generally just really narky, constantly pins his ears back and pulls faces at us, tries to knock us flying.



We had already come to the conclusion that he is absolutely not for a novice child and planned to sell him and buy something more suitable.

His teeth are up to date, he has seen a physio and although stiff wasn't in any pain. But I will get him checked again. I've tried magnesium and I've tried a supplement for ulcers. His saddle had recently been checked, and although his wonky shoulders have caused some issues, following advice on here I'd managed to get it sitting much better and he was moving forward really well under saddle. I do regular groundwork with him but he is moody throughout and has no interest in working with me. I've even tried working him twice a day - short session in the school in the morning and hack in the afternoon. Nothing has made a jot of difference to his behaviour or attitude.

I've looked through his old owners FB posts and seen reference made to him being a 'bucking bronco' at a competition so apparently the bucking is not new but they never mentioned it.

I have no idea what to do with him. None of us want to ride him but I can't in all conscience pass him on to anyone else. Daughter is devastated as we cant afford to buy another pony.

In 20 years of horse ownership I have never known a pony like this.
Click to expand...


TBH I'd have it shot- sorry to be harsh but in no way would I pass on a pony like this, you have done everything you can and youcannot keep chucking money at the problem, sometimes a pony is just a bad one, I know some fluffies won't agree with this but better you know the outcome and that he cannot injure or perhaps worse anyone else, than pass him on where he'll likely be passed pillar to post.
 
honetpot said:
Sometimes you just have to accept that not all animals are 'sane'. .
Click to expand...

Indeed you do and sometimes there is a genetic problem which should never be passed on but is, because it is combined with good looks (!).

But OP's pony seems to have worked successfully in a RS for sometime before the previous owner bought it. Truly ' genetically insane' ponies don't get to do that.
This pony's problems sound man-made to me and it may well be that after investigations, it is decided that treatment is too invasive/lengthy/costly/unreliable that pts is the only option and I would support pts in those circumstances but to advise, as some people did, that a former successful RS pony, which is known to have physical difficulties and is almost certainly in pain, is not even offered pain relief to see if that helps but pts and get another is unconscionable in my book. And nobody has ever accused me of 'fluffy bunnyism'.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Indeed you do and sometimes there is a genetic problem which should never be passed on but is, because it is combined with good looks (!).

But OP's pony seems to have worked successfully in a RS for sometime before the previous owner bought it. Truly ' genetically insane' ponies don't get to do that.
This pony's problems sound man-made to me and it may well be that after investigations, it is decided that treatment is too invasive/lengthy/costly/unreliable that pts is the only option and I would support pts in those circumstances but to advise, as some people did, that a former successful RS pony, which is known to have physical difficulties and is almost certainly in pain, is not even offered pain relief to see if that helps but pts and get another is unconscionable in my book. And nobody has ever accused me of 'fluffy bunnyism'.
Click to expand...
How ever the this has happened the end product is just the same, an animal which is not safe to be around children.

It can never be the animals fault, but the consquences for a human could be life changing. I have been close up in to children and adults that have suffered traumatic brain injury and sometimes the is no fix and the best outcome is organ donation.
When you handle all large animals you always take a risk, an adult can asses the risk and make an informed choice, as long as they know all the relevant information. A child relies on the adult to asses that risk,and make sure the child protected from harm as much as possible, which includes potential harm. PTS is not a welfare issue, protecting a child from harm is.
 
honetpot said:
How ever the this has happened the end product is just the same, an animal which is not safe to be around children.

It can never be the animals fault, but the consquences for a human could be life changing. I have been close up in to children and adults that have suffered traumatic brain injury and sometimes the is no fix and the best outcome is organ donation.
When you handle all large animals you always take a risk, an adult can asses the risk and make an informed choice, as long as they know all the relevant information. A child relies on the adult to asses that risk,and make sure the child protected from harm as much as possible, which includes potential harm. PTS is not a welfare issue, protecting a child from harm is.
Click to expand...


Agree with this, and I would be concerned that any recurrence of pain in this pony's future -. a touch of colic, an abscess - could suddenly produce violent behaviour 'from nowhere', which is even more risky than constant aggressive behaviour.


.
 
honetpot said:
How ever the this has happened the end product is just the same, an animal which is not safe to be around children.

It can never be the animals fault, but the consquences for a human could be life changing. I have been close up in to children and adults that have suffered traumatic brain injury and sometimes the is no fix and the best outcome is organ donation.
When you handle all large animals you always take a risk, an adult can asses the risk and make an informed choice, as long as they know all the relevant information. A child relies on the adult to asses that risk,and make sure the child protected from harm as much as possible, which includes potential harm. PTS is not a welfare issue, protecting a child from harm is.
Click to expand...


I quite agree that OP's children should not be riding or handling this pony currently but as it hasn't even had a bute trial, so far as we can tell even though it appears to be screaming that it is in pain and has been for the last 18 months, at least intermittently, I think advising OP to pts is somewhat premature.

IMO part of owning animals, for children, is learning that they are not like bikes/toys, sometimes they need care even when you can't 'use' them and that you should not keep them for 18 months dabbling with one different thing and another but not actually even trying to get to the bottom of the reason they are 'wrong'.

I keep going back to the facts that this pony has worked apparently successfully in a RS, that it has been with OP for 18 months and not really been right during that time. She has spent money on physio and supplements but not on a thorough vet investigation into what is wrong with the pony.

I feel sorry for her children and understand that it must have been frightening for her to watch the pony kick her daughter but it seems to me that far too many people impute human emotion to animal actions. The pony wasn't trying to kill her daughter, except in the way a zebra might try to kill a lion which was attacking it, when it kicked daughter's head. It bucked her off because it found being ridden painful/uncomfortable.

Then I think about the advice to loan another pony and conclude that I would be less likely to loan a much loved pony to this family than to a family who had had to pts a pony after vet advice following careful investigations into a problem, which genuinely couldn't be solved.
 
I had a horse on rehab that had to be given a sedative to be able to start work. This was a small amount of a powder that is eliminated from the system in 24 hours so wouldn't show up in a blood test. The horse could be ridden for exercise but it just took the silly edge off him.

I thought then that this drug could be seriously misused in unscrupulous hands. Who knows what people wanting to sell horses will do?Some just think of the money regardless of what will happen to the animal or new owners.
 
Its difficult. I like to fix ponies like this. I actually sat here earlier and thought about PMing OP about him, then I remembered my lifes in turmoil and I cant do it at the minute or probably again if I'm being honest with myself. I've successfully turned every single one around so far, but its always at that back of my mind that if I cant they will be PTS. I dont generally pass them on, and not ever if they have been aggressive and violent at any point.

I enjoy it on the whole although its not always easy, its not just a case of find the pain and the behaviour stops, you usually have to work through the aftermath for some time afterwards.

The trickiest one I had is now retired apart from the odd pony ride and pampering session and is an absolutely reformed character, but hes living with a friend and I went over and over all his triggers and the possible outcomes. He'd also been a model citizen for 18months or so by then as well. He will never leave my ownership.

Would I even consider it with something that was going to be a childs pony? Not in a million years!
 
[/QUOTEI keep going back to the facts that this pony has worked apparently successfully in a RS, that it has been with OP for 18 months and not really been right during that time. [/QUOTE]

I've not seen anything that suggests the pony was working successfully in a riding school - in fact, in my experience, riding schools don't tend to sell on their successful ponies.
 
On the basis that it will cost you to get the pony PTS I would offer it to Pearlasinger for nothing and she can spend whatever she wants on vets/specialist fees and risk her children around the pony. You can then find smething that will do your job.
Yes it is sad that a pony has gone this way but there is no contest - it is a child's safety.
 
SpottyMare said:
[/QUOTEI keep going back to the facts that this pony has worked apparently successfully in a RS, that it has been with OP for 18 months and not really been right during that time.
Click to expand...

I've not seen anything that suggests the pony was working successfully in a riding school - in fact, in my experience, riding schools don't tend to sell on their successful ponies.[/QUOTE]

bubsqueaks said:
Ive seen on one of your previous posts he is an 8 year old ex-riding school pony who has extremely wonky shoulders & slipping saddle.
Yes there are occasionally horses who are just nasty but there are far far more that are screaming out in pain.
As you know he has issues anyway & more than likely these were created/exacerbated by his riding school stint, I would only feel satisfied at reaching the conclusion of PTS once I had bottomed out a work up with the vet including scoping for ulcers.
As people have posted his behaviour may well then change once any issues have been sorted.
I totally understand your children will have lost their trust in him but finding myself in a similar position with ulcers & pony bronking child off , even if your children have lost that faith please give him one last chance.
Click to expand...


You obviously missed OP's previous thread, SM
 
sport horse said:
On the basis that it will cost you to get the pony PTS I would offer it to Pearlasinger for nothing and she can spend whatever she wants on vets/specialist fees and risk her children around the pony. You can then find smething that will do your job.
Yes it is sad that a pony has gone this way but there is no contest - it is a child's safety.
Click to expand...


What a kind offer, unfortunately my cob is a fighter and would be most unlikely to allow him to share her field and companion. She has been prepared to take on a mare twice her size, when she was 3. We had to separate them and keep our 4 mares in pairs. We always try to work with our horses to find what works.
 
There is nothing to say he was a good RS pony, he must have been very young when he was there and sold by the time he was 6 if not younger, we also have no idea of his size, he could have spent the first few years on the LR and only proved difficult once expected to go off, many ponies miss out on a full education especially the smaller ones, the good ones develop along the way the more tricky ones end up 'naughty' or on the lead for most of the time.

The OP does not need to justify her decision if nothing is found by the vet, equally if there is something that can be treated I don't think they should feel guilty if they do not spend time, effort and money trying to fix this pony that may never do the job as a child's pony, at the end of the day the pony can be replaced, a child cannot.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top