What options do I have with Soap now?... loan, sell, get him stuffed?... ;)

Chloe_GHE

Chloe_GHE

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only joking he would make a rubbish ornament, and there's no way a 16.2 stuffed horse would fit in my flat ;)

I've just turned him out for 4 weeks with my old retired boy, and he's had medication to the hind leg he injured, and pads on both front feet. Currently with this he is 99.9% sound, he just goes a bit 'off' the next day if he hairs around in the field. naughty racehorse!

I am hoping that after 4 weeks r&r to recover from the hind injury, front pads is all he will need to keep him sound on the front. (hope is based on past 5 years 100% sound) if he doesn't then I still have enough vets fees to have Tildren to treat that 1 front foot.

So........hypothetically... stick with me here....when/if he comes sound enough to come back into work, and is suitable for hacking, dressage, and showing (I'm assuming jumping is now ruled out but obvs depends on how he gets on) then what CAN I do with him?...

He was previously up for sale because I have made the decision that I need to downsize to 1 horse. Not enough time/money/energy for 2 so keeping him is still not an option

So......is there a demand for such a horse?.... as a freebie?... or £500?.... permanent loan?....

I have no experience in this area as I've never had a horse with a physical issue that I was trying to re-home. My main priority is to find a knowledgeable, reliable home for life, where someone can continue to enjoy this lovely horse........is that a hope in hell?.... or does it happen?....any examples of other similar situations would be good.....

My biggest fear is someone will bute him, beast him, and break him and I just couldn't live with myself if that happened :(

Any hopeful tales peeps?.....where do competition horses go when they need a quieter life?... :)

on offer courtesy of the Dukan diet is salmon, chicken, beef, and ham - it's 'a meat day' today!!! :) tuck in!
 
What is wrong with his front feet? I have looked for your previous posts and I can't find it, sorry if I am asking you to repeat yourself.



Later: i have found it on your blog. He has bony changes to the navicular. Has your vet not told you that if he xrays 100 sound horses, 50 of them will have bony changes to the navicular? Radiographs say almost nothing conclusive about lameness and most "navicular" is either ddft and/or collateral ligament damage, both of which are fixable with a barefoot rehab.

If he has weak feet or thin soles these can also be corrected with a barefoot rehab, which will include a properly mineral balanced low sugar/high fibre diet.

The rehab I did last year has been sound and in full hard work for a year now. He had navicular bone changes and feet so weak that I could bend them with my fingers.

I suggest you check out rockleyfarm.co.uk and rockleyfarm.blogspot.com to see what I am talking about.
 
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Glad he seems better with a bit of rest, fingers crossed he continues to improve :)

I would definitely look at loaning him- if I remember correctly he is pretty safe and unflappable so would be a nice horse for someone wanting to hack and do some local shows?

I loaned my very special horse (no soundness issues but was 15) as wanted to ensure he had a good retirement and the girl was so in love with him I agreed she could buy him after a year and if she ever wants to sell he can come back to me so his retirement is guaranteed.

I will turn down the offer of food as I am also on the Durkan diet at the moment and half way through a pot of quark!!
 
ooh, i'll take a bit of that salmon, ta! ;) ;)
i've already replied a bit on fb, but anyway...
as long as he's a nice person, i think there's always a home for him. if he's a really good boy to hack out, can be trusted to 'take care of' someone, definitely. no question at all. nice well-behaved horses are always in demand.
i have sold two of my old former eventers, both with the stipulation that they mustn't do any jumping (legs not likely to stand it, not worth the risk to them) one as a hack/dressage schoolmistress, the other for hacking and fun dressage (cos he's a naughty git with an overdeveloped sense of humour, not a schoolmaster by any stretch of the imagination!) and both are in perfect 'forever' homes with friends who know that i will buy back, without question, if the need ever arises.
i don't loan, ever. been burnt before. better to sell so that the horse has a value to them, but with the safety-net of the guarantee to buy back...
 
If I had a horse that couldn't be ridden and I didn't have the money/time to keep him at home, I am afraid I would have him pts. I would rather have that happen, than give him away, or sell him for £500.

I think there are people who can be trusted to loan horses with medical problems, but they are few and far between. I think that you, as the owner should take responsiblity for his future, not a stranger.

I am sorry if I sound harsh because it is obvious you care about your horse, but I think that we sometimes have to make hard decisions for horses.
 
BigRed said:
If I had a horse that couldn't be ridden and I didn't have the money/time to keep him at home, I am afraid I would have him pts. I would rather have that happen, than give him away, or sell him for £500.

I think there are people who can be trusted to loan horses with medical problems, but they are few and far between. I think that you, as the owner should take responsiblity for his future, not a stranger.

I am sorry if I sound harsh because it is obvious you care about your horse, but I think that we sometimes have to make hard decisions for horses.
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He can be ridden, but he will just need to be managed carefully, it's only very slight bony changes to one half of one front pedal bone and until about 2 weeks ago he was in full work and this problem was unknown, it's still unknown really if this IS a problem, the xray may be 'normal for him', and the hind leg injury (which vet said he will recover from, it's just a nasty impact injury from a bang or hit of some kind, don't know how he did it) is sort of masking what the real issue is. (he is still recovering so don't know the final outcome as such)

This really is a hypothetical 'if he comes back sound' what to do post. If you saw him hooning about in the field you would wonder what I'm worrying about, but now I have had him xrayed and the vet has diagnosed this damage to the navicular bone I cannot legally or morally sell him on in the same manner as I was going to pre-discovery (he was on market at £5000ono)

So....what I'm asking in a round about way is....what could I do with him now I know this about his foot?...

I'm not going to just flog him to some random, the £500 price tag is just a number to represent a reduced price for him, part of my question about if he could still be sold which imho I don't think he could

In an ideal world I would find a lovely perm loan home for him, where they could continue to ride and compete and enjoy him on the flat, and we could keep in regular contact etc, and I can always have him back in his dotage if needed. Ideal IDEAL world his new home would be a fiend of a friend or known to me. He's only 11 and in the best condition of his life there's no way I'm having him PTS
 
cptrayes said:
What is wrong with his front feet? I have looked for your previous posts and I can't find it, sorry if I am asking you to repeat yourself.



Later: i have found it on your blog. He has bony changes to the navicular. Has your vet not told you that if he xrays 100 sound horses, 50 of them will have bony changes to the navicular? Radiographs say almost nothing conclusive about lameness and most "navicular" is either ddft and/or collateral ligament damage, both of which are fixable with a barefoot rehab.

If he has weak feet or thin soles these can also be corrected with a barefoot rehab, which will include a properly mineral balanced low sugar/high fibre diet.

The rehab I did last year has been sound and in full hard work for a year now. He had navicular bone changes and feet so weak that I could bend them with my fingers.

I suggest you check out rockleyfarm.co.uk and rockleyfarm.blogspot.com to see what I am talking about.
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Yes I did look at the barefoot route and rockley but it's simply too ££££ for me. His feet aren't bad, the balance is perfect according to xrays and he's never had any issues with them before other than the odd abscess which is pretty routine. He's got pads with sheep's wool and tar underneath on now and he was instantly sound after that, then he ran about in the field and was sore and sorry for himself the next day. I think the hind leg keeps getting aggravated by him running about, but I can't sedate him in the field so I have turned him out with a v quiet horse and just have to wait for a month to let him recover on the hind leg, and hopefully he will then be sound all round (hind leg is opp diagonal to front foot with damage so makes it hard to tell which foot is what % of the cause of lameness)

Yes vet did say that the damage could be normal for him, and typical given his age (11yrs) BUT and this is the sticking point, now I KNOW he has damage and technically it is classed as 'navicular' I cannot sell him (don't want to and wouldn't either) without disclosing this.

So I was thinking....who would want this horse, with this medical knowledge, and are there homes out there for this situation??....

Sorry this is a really 'what if' post... but i don't have any definites to work from till he comes sound again
 
millitiger said:
Glad he seems better with a bit of rest, fingers crossed he continues to improve :)

I would definitely look at loaning him- if I remember correctly he is pretty safe and unflappable so would be a nice horse for someone wanting to hack and do some local shows?

I loaned my very special horse (no soundness issues but was 15) as wanted to ensure he had a good retirement and the girl was so in love with him I agreed she could buy him after a year and if she ever wants to sell he can come back to me so his retirement is guaranteed.

I will turn down the offer of food as I am also on the Durkan diet at the moment and half way through a pot of quark!!
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Ahhh that's reassuring ta :)

Yes he is a lovely sensible chap and great manners

Quark I can't get over this stuff I have to say it 'QUARK' like an alien every time I use it....but that might just be me! ;)
 
My old mare developed "navicular". She came sound (within a couple of months) and stayed sound until I lost her some 7-8 years later from a completely unrelated disease.

Not everyone wants to event or BD or BS so I would say yes. Infact my mare, whom I had previously evented, became a bit of a diva in the dressage arena and in fact won a Championship the week before I lost her and she was then aged 17. I must also admit to doing 4 ODE's in her final year too having not jumped her for years but she felt grand. Yes I was VERY choosy about the ground I worked on and would only compete on a surface but as the years went by my confidence grew and I tested the boundries somewhat.

There are plenty out there who hate the thought of jumping and who don't have transport so are more than happy to just plod down the road for the odd dressage test.

Good Luck.
 
kerilli said:
ooh, i'll take a bit of that salmon, ta! ;) ;)
i've already replied a bit on fb, but anyway...
as long as he's a nice person, i think there's always a home for him. if he's a really good boy to hack out, can be trusted to 'take care of' someone, definitely. no question at all. nice well-behaved horses are always in demand.
i have sold two of my old former eventers, both with the stipulation that they mustn't do any jumping (legs not likely to stand it, not worth the risk to them) one as a hack/dressage schoolmistress, the other for hacking and fun dressage (cos he's a naughty git with an overdeveloped sense of humour, not a schoolmaster by any stretch of the imagination!) and both are in perfect 'forever' homes with friends who know that i will buy back, without question, if the need ever arises.
i don't loan, ever. been burnt before. better to sell so that the horse has a value to them, but with the safety-net of the guarantee to buy back...
Click to expand...

a buy back clause and a no jumping clause - good plan :)
I don't like the idea of loaning either, but I need him to have the right home so at least if the loan doesn't work out I can have him back....once they are sold...they are sold!
 
MadisonBelle said:
My old mare developed "navicular". She came sound (within a couple of months) and stayed sound until I lost her some 7-8 years later from a completely unrelated disease.

Not everyone wants to event or BD or BS so I would say yes. Infact my mare, whom I had previously evented, became a bit of a diva in the dressage arena and in fact won a Championship the week before I lost her and she was then aged 17. I must also admit to doing 4 ODE's in her final year too having not jumped her for years but she felt grand. Yes I was VERY choosy about the ground I worked on and would only compete on a surface but as the years went by my confidence grew and I tested the boundries somewhat.

There are plenty out there who hate the thought of jumping and who don't have transport so are more than happy to just plod down the road for the odd dressage test.

Good Luck.
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thank you, sorry to hear you lost her but it is reassuring to know that "navicular" isn't the end, it's a bit of a scary word like cancer! and you think the worst, but there seem to be varying degrees from 'not ever an issue again' to 'crippled and PTS'
 
Would he make a confidence giving hack? I know someone looking for something unflappable and genuine just to hack and possibly do the odd fun ride and it would be a good home for life if he suited.
 
I'm probably in the minority here but I would support loan or loan with a view to buy.

I have recently sold a horse that I have owned for a fair while. The horse wasn't right for me long term, and had an operation that needed disclosure. It was of paramount importance to me that he went to a good home, and I would rather he came home (in whatever state that might be) than me having no say at all over what his future held.

I originally loaned him out and he came back pretty quickly as proved a bit much for what the loaner wanted (came back in excellent condition I hasten to add and very amicable). I then loaned with view to buy, he went to a girl who had him for a decent trial (saw his good and bad bits!) and went ahead with the purchase.

There are some really dodgy homes out there (both if you loan or sell) but at least if you loan you have the ability to check up on the horse and remove them from the situation if you need to.

I am sure you would rehome him easily, price him sensibly, offer a short loan period, and vet prospective people very carefully.
 
Do not worry it can work out. I have just sold my horse who was a LOU horse for hock spavins but still have loads of life left in him and is sound. I was not asking serious money and had really good levels of interest as he is safe and fun but just never going to now go and set the world on fire. I wrote a really honest advert - PM me if you want to see it and had only ideal people call. I have sold him to the most perfect person who will have serious fun with him. I got fed up with loaning out as a big worry for me and I had no dodgy dealers call because he has been branded which makes a big difference as cannot just be sold on.
 
Chloe_GHE said:
My biggest fear is someone will bute him, beast him, and break him and I just couldn't live with myself if that happened :(
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Exactly why I won't sell mine ("navicular syndrome" = DDFT tear and damaged cartilage in hoof, with her). She's so nice-natured that I'm scared someone will bute her up and sell her on to someone who wants to jump her again, gallop about etc. I have to carefully manage how she's fed, exercised, shod etc. in order to keep her sound.

Not a nice decision, I know, but if you can find someone you trust to have him, oir alternatively find a way of ensuring you could have first refusal on any future sale, that might make it easier on your conscience.

I've given up my hope of having another, more rideable horse in order to ensure mine has a good home for life. It's not easy!
 
Chloe_GHE said:
a buy back clause and a no jumping clause - good plan :)
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It won't be worth the paper it's written on, I'm afraid.

I really, really would NOT sell for now. Don't let him change ownership if he has veterinary issues, and is the type of chap who could be taken advantage of. It's far, far, to risky :(

Try and find him a nice hacking/light work loan home. I know it might be tricky or might take a while to find the right person, but it's got to be worth a try. Of course if it then works out after a good long period then you can change ownership, but I would be very cautious about doing so quickly.

Anyone whose ever sold a horse to what they thought was a good home, only to discover that it's been sold on dishonestly, will tell you how very devastating it is :(

There'll be homes out there looking for something like him to loan. He'd be just the sort of thing we'd be looking for, for my mother, if our old girl's sarcoids do indeed mean that she won't be ridden again.

(I know this is badly written, I've just woken up :o)
 
I'd loan him if that helps?

I'd try word of mouth loaning tbh. Especially is he's a good hack and could do ridden showing/dressage and POSSIBLY pop the odd tiny jump on good footing (bearing in mind 2ft6 is big to me!) He'd be perfect for someone like me and there are lots of us out there. (I'm just broke atm)
 
Puppy makes one good point and I had loaned my horse out for a year so we knew exactly what he would stand up to and what he would not which has really helped with selling. My thoughts always were if he did not stand up to being on loan then he would be PTS but actually he got better and better the more work he did.
 
kerilli said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloe_GHE View Post
a buy back clause and a no jumping clause - good plan
It won't be worth the paper it's written on, I'm afraid.



Well, i've done it 3 times now, and it has worked every time. so far, i know...
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I think the issue is that it relies solely on the morals of the purchaser, as it has no legal merit. It's great whilst the 'terms' are complied with, but if they weren't then the previous owner would be unable to actually do anything as the clauses are essentially worthless from a legal PoV.

We're then back to the issue of needing to rely on the good intentions of the other party and trust that they don't push the horse beyond its limits, and because of that I'm inclined to agree with the posters who have recommended loan/LWVTB as the first would allow the OP to retain control over his welfare, and the second would give a good window of opportunity to assess the suitability of both horse for loaner and loaner for horse, and get a 'feel' for whether or not the loaner is likely to stick to their word and not run him into the ground.
 
Chloe_GHE said:
Yes I did look at the barefoot route and rockley but it's simply too ££££ for me. His feet aren't bad, the balance is perfect according to xrays and he's never had any issues with them before other than the odd abscess which is pretty routine. He's got pads with sheep's wool and tar underneath on now and he was instantly sound after that, then he ran about in the field and was sore and sorry for himself the next day. I think the hind leg keeps getting aggravated by him running about, but I can't sedate him in the field so I have turned him out with a v quiet horse and just have to wait for a month to let him recover on the hind leg, and hopefully he will then be sound all round (hind leg is opp diagonal to front foot with damage so makes it hard to tell which foot is what % of the cause of lameness)

Yes vet did say that the damage could be normal for him, and typical given his age (11yrs) BUT and this is the sticking point, now I KNOW he has damage and technically it is classed as 'navicular' I cannot sell him (don't want to and wouldn't either) without disclosing this.

So I was thinking....who would want this horse, with this medical knowledge, and are there homes out there for this situation??....

Sorry this is a really 'what if' post... but i don't have any definites to work from till he comes sound again
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I did not mean you should have him done at Rockley, but it is the only record that I know of to show you what can be achieved. You could do him yourself at home, and then he would be a sound horse and there would be a market and a future for him as there was for my rehab. I did happen to give him away after a loan period, but not until the people who have him had agreed to pay me £600 for him.

If he remains lame I would have him put down. The risk of him being passed from pillar to post if you do not keep ownership of him is far too great.
 
I had the same dilemma last year. I found a perfect home for my horse, a lady who is married to a farrier wanted some thing very quiet to hack and lead ponies from. She had lost most of her confidence on her eventer, who she sold when she became pregnant. She's had him nearly a year and keeps in touch via email. He has only in the last couple of weeks felt choppy, so she's backed off and going to try imprint shoes. She will retire him to her mothers farm when he's had enough, some thing I'd never of been able to afford. She loves him to bits and he's very much part of their family now. I did sell him very cheap, that is where you have to be careful as it attracts the wrong kind if buyer. I'm just happy for my old horse, he really landed on his feet, excuse the pun! ;)
 
thanks for the feed back peeps :)

I think full medical disclosure and a really honest ad for LWVTB for a much reduced figure is probably the best, safest route to go down when he is fit to be ridden.

Nice to hear that so many good but not perfect horses go on to healthy happy homes :)
 
If he is a 'nice person' then there will be a market for him. The more he can do the better, if he will be a confident hack and do the occasional dressage or bit of showing then there is definatly a market for him. If he could do some small jumping with a nervous rider with the dressage hacking and showing then the right person would snap him up.
If its possible could you get 2 sharers for him so he can stay on your yard and you can keep an eye on him whilst other poeple enjoy him with in his capabilities.
 
I have to say there are people out there who are capable riders but have no intention of jumping (ever!) but still like to hack, school, do a bit of showing, dressage etc (and I know because I am most definately one of those people!). When I was looking for a horse last year, I wasn't remotely phased by something which was honestly disclosed as having an issue and couldn't be jumped - I didn't end up buying one of those but I've now had my mare for over a year and we simply don't jump at all.

If Soap was worth £5k pre this and comes back sound but with a no jumping caveat, then I would suggest you could still get £3k if sold to someone who wanted the same as I did (safe, seen the world etc). I agree with LWVTB too, and even if you do sell, most decent people would revert to the previous owner first if they had problems and / or wanted to sell on. I know some people have had bad experiences but I think you get a feel for the type of person you're selling to / buying from and whether you'd be happy to pass your horse on to them.

Good luck!
 
kerilli said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chloe_GHE View Post
a buy back clause and a no jumping clause - good plan
It won't be worth the paper it's written on, I'm afraid.



Well, i've done it 3 times now, and it has worked every time. so far, i know...
Click to expand...

We did it once, about 25 years ago. Never did find out where she ended up :mad: She was sold to a longime 'friend' of my mums, who sold her on within a month of buying her.
 
Personnally, I would pull the shoes, get boots with pads and the best trimmer in the area (who will be able to give advice about feeding, treating for thrush...) . See what happens, your horse might come out totally sound. The shoes only hide the problem temporarily.

Edited to add: navicular is a syndrome, a collection of symptoms. Technically, if the symptoms disappear the horse is not navicular any more.

Here is info backed by actual scientific research on navicular:
http://www.hoofrehab.com/NavicularSyndrome.htm
 
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i have the same dilemma with my boy. He is 9yrs old and had stifle surgery last year. He is never going to be the hunter/dressage horse he was but is quite capable of hacking, showing, prelim/novice dressage on a surface, regular schooling and possibly on occasion some small XC jumps (not really done much jumping since he came back into work in Jan as he doesn't do poles/show jumps in any way, shape or form and we haven't got many XC jumps but he's done the odd log) He could do sponsored rides and could possibly even go hunting again somewhere where he wont be required to jump anything big. I dont have the right home to give him anymore. He has to be kept on individual turnout as my new horse hates him, my hacking doesn't carry enough variety for him and I dont do competing just for a bit of fun - I have to have something to aim for.

I am loathe to pass him on though in case someone discovers what an amazing XC jumper he is and starts ragging him round huge jumps again and he breaks down, but then I would feel awful putting him to sleep just because I cant give him the right home. He deserves a life surely. I was thinking maybe loan or LWVTB after a good trial period but maybe I am mad thinking I will find this for him. He is a lovely horse, very nervous of new people and new situations but when you gain his trust he's very rewarding. He's not a ploddy hack though, he's fun and up for it and a bit spooky. He's also not a schoolmaster - he is capable of simple changes, flying changes, half pass etc but on a spooky day you'd be lucky to get a decent 20m circle out of him! I just dont know what to do with him.
 
I have been in this position with one of mine who strained his ddft and although can do fast work and jump the risk of breaking him permanently is to great.

After a long recouperation he went on loan to a friend (from HHO actually!) for about 8 months but she didnt have time to do much with him so she asked for him to come home to me. Through the grapevine another friend asked if he could go to her instead of coming back to me. As she is very close to me I let her have him on loan.

There were lots of clauses in the loan document that she wasnt allowed to ride him on the hard, jump him, do anything fast etc. It worked really well. This was at Christmas time and she loves him so so so much that I figured I would never be able to take him off her, that there isnt a person in the world that I would rather own him and she kept asking to buy him and tonight she did, so hes now hers properly. I completely trust her and as she is a close friend it wont really be that different now... I hope!

I think if I was you I would only want to loan out first (at least) Its a tricky business trusting people, esp with precious ponies, believe me I found it very hard trusting my friend and shes a close friend who is super super careful. I dont feel sad today though (apart from a few tears) because I know its right for my horse and both of us. I dont think you mind giving ownership when it feels right.

Good luck
 
Afraid I can't help with soap, but please a word of warning on the dukan.... It is designed for people who do very light exercise- ie walking. Not riding, mucking out, running. I did all that on it, and wa very ill.... My uncle- not related, just called uncle- Also got an impacted gut on it, and my father's cholesterol has peaked and culminated in three heart attacks in a week last month- and he is a very fit semi pro golfer and half marathon runner.... Not saying the heart attacks are def from the diet but please PLEASE be careful- it works, but just be aware. :)
 
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