What practices in the Equine world have shocked you?

wench said:
How do the jumps "clearly defy abilities of the horse"... the jumps are jumpable.... as the horses that get round prove.

Bet if you ask hunting folks out in Leicestshire how big they've jumped on a bog standard family horse, you would be approaching grand national sized fences...
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Oh really? That big huh? How many of those does the bog standard family horse do in a day then?

I think the jumps push the horse above and beyond necessary. It is not necessary to jump a course that big. We humans put the challenge there and fatalities occur. This in my opinion is cruel. We don't need to make them do this do we? It's just that there's a lot of money in it and people want it. Who suffers?

Defend it all you like wench, I happen to disagree with it and there's not much you can do to change my my mind.
 
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MissMay said:
IMO rapping is when a horse has a tendency to knock a jump so two people hold the end of a pole and raise it too hit a horses front legs as he jumps. this encourages them to jump higher "supposedly"
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Oh yes, I did know this. lol Anyone clarify the reason for shaving withers?

The tying into an outline is just pointless as well as horrid/cruel. The horses neck muscles and ligments will become very sore at the least. Surely you want a lovely relaxed horse able to correctly carry itself, not a sore horse struggling along with soreness and stiffness? :confused:
 
I always watch these videos and then I really wish I didn't! That is absolutely horrendous, I have tears in my eyes.

My boy will get an extra big cuddle tonight for all those poor horses who have the most horrendous lives. I wish I could rescue them all :mad:
 
fburton said:
Breeding/mating practices that do not allow adequate time for teasing/courtship and rely on physical restraint to get covering done as quickly as possible. Yes, I know safety is a prime consideration, especially for ludicrously valuable animals, but I still find shocking the ritualized scenario that can be tantamount to rape.
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amandap said:
The rape of breeding mares is disgraceful imo.
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I think I'm going to have to disagree with these two statements. This is just my opinion, but I believe that "rape" is a human construction and can't be applied to animals. Animals mate to reproduce. If a mare is sexually receptive then surely she will be mated in the wild - ignoring various herd pecking orders? Just because the situation is more controlled, to prevent injury doesn't make it rape. If the mare was not sexually receptive, surely, she would not be mated?
 
HeatherAnn said:
I think I'm going to have to disagree with these two statements. This is just my opinion, but I believe that "rape" is a human construction and can't be applied to animals. Animals mate to reproduce. If a mare is sexually receptive then surely she will be mated in the wild - ignoring various herd pecking orders? Just because the situation is more controlled, to prevent injury doesn't make it rape. If the mare was not sexually receptive, surely, she would not be mated?
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A mare can be forcibly mated even if not behaviourally receptive, for sure. Left to her own devices 'in the wild', a mare is able to express her desire, or not, to be covered. Stallions ignore obvious negative signals at their peril. However, when the breeding process is controlled by humans, these signals can be suppressed by force. Moreover, the stallion may not be given an opportunity to pick up on any negative signals if the covering routine has trained him to perform on cue as quickly as possible. That is what I object to and find so shocking.

Whether the word "rape" is correct is another matter. It is probably not, strictly speaking. Nevertheless the essential meaning of "rape" is appropriate in this case - forcing the mare to submit to sex against her will.
 
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fburton said:
A mare can be forcibly mated even if not behaviourally receptive, for sure. Left to her own devices 'in the wild', a mare is able to express her desire, or not, to be covered. Stallions ignore obvious negative signals at their peril. However, when the breeding process is controlled by humans, these signals can be suppressed by force. Moreover, the stallion may not be given an opportunity to pick up on any negative signals if the covering routine has trained him to perform on cue as quickly as possible. That is what I object to and find so shocking.

Whether the word "rape" is correct is another matter. It is probably not, strictly speaking. Nevertheless the essential meaning of "rape" is appropriate in this case - forcing the mare to submit to sex against her will.
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So what does "behaviourally receptive" entail?
 
RutlandH2O said:
PMU (pregnant mares' urine) farms where pregnant mares are confined to stalls with urine collection devices hung between their hind legs. The purpose of these farms is to collect the urine, which is rich in estrogens, and sold for HRT (hormone replacement therapy) production. In an effort to increase the amount of estrogen within the urine, the mares are often left without the recommended 2 waterings a day, so as to concentrate the urine. The mares are unable to lie down, turn, or change their positions in their stalls. They stand like this for 6 months of every year. There are thousands of foals born each year on these farms. Many are sold to feedlots for the meat trade. Many more are slaughtered soon after birth.
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I've never even heard of this, how awful :(
 
HeatherAnn said:
So what does "behaviourally receptive" entail?
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Basically it's whether the mare shows all the signs of oestrus, including standing for the stallion. It is linked to reproductive status because both ovulation and behaviour are controlled by hormones, but they aren't always perfectly synchronized and mares may show unwillingness to be covered even though they are ready physiologically (as determined e.g. by scanning).

Of course there is a sliding scale of receptivity. For example, a mare could show winking but not allow the stallion to mount, or allow the stallion to mount but then kick out at him. (Particular mares will allow the stallion to cover them and kick out when he dismounts, which is a pain. However, experienced handlers will be alert to this possibility.) Teasing plays an important role in synchronizing behaviour with physiology, which is why it is a mistake to skimp on that aspect, in my opinion.
 
To those people in the video that Tiniponi posted and every other cruel vile human abusing animals...

May hell be an eternity of horses kicking your kneecaps out and you be defaced repeatedly by teeth while cows gore out your intestines with blunt horns.
 
The backing of youngsters by so called professionals in my area using what they call 'the pit' which is essentially a small paddock of very deep going where the youngsters find it too hard to buck or rear or do anything other than stand and take it. What is wrong with spending a little extra time and doing things properly?
 
Wheels said:
The backing of youngsters by so called professionals in my area using what they call 'the pit' which is essentially a small paddock of very deep going where the youngsters find it too hard to buck or rear or do anything other than stand and take it. What is wrong with spending a little extra time and doing things properly?
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On a big yard with loads and I mean loads of young horses it would be near impossible to take the time to turn horses round fast enough the slow and steady way. From experience of both ways the outcome isnt that different. I use an in between the two method personally. I have nothing against getting on and riding it forward, its how my 4 year old was sat on twice before I had him and hes wonderful, I did the rest from there but just getting on and riding forwards.

At the end of a day horses like this are a business and time is money
 
badgermyers said:
On a big yard with loads and I mean loads of young horses it would be near impossible to take the time to turn horses round fast enough the slow and steady way. From experience of both ways the outcome isnt that different. I use an in between the two method personally. I have nothing against getting on and riding it forward, its how my 4 year old was sat on twice before I had him and hes wonderful, I did the rest from there but just getting on and riding forwards.

At the end of a day horses like this are a business and time is money
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In that case the people doing the backing are taking too much on IMO.

I recently backed my own youngster and it took a grand total of 3 sessions of leaning over a little more each time before I could sit astride, this was after a lunging or long reining session so hardly a mammoth task for someone really
 
HeatherAnn said:
I think I'm going to have to disagree with these two statements. This is just my opinion, but I believe that "rape" is a human construction and can't be applied to animals. Animals mate to reproduce. If a mare is sexually receptive then surely she will be mated in the wild - ignoring various herd pecking orders? Just because the situation is more controlled, to prevent injury doesn't make it rape. If the mare was not sexually receptive, surely, she would not be mated?
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If you have ever seen a twitched mare with her legs with ropes around them being pulled so she cant move or kick out, whilst a horse with a thing the size of a mans leg is forced into a small mare - usually by blokes whom think its something to be proud off - then i do not know anything closer to rape - if the mare was in the field she would be tellng him to bog off until she was ready to mate
 
radiographypaddedhoof2.jpg
 
Gingerwitch said:
Oberon...... what the hell is that.....? omg - that poor poor poor horse - and just exactly what is the point of this ????
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It's the pad underneath a Big Lick TWH. The hooves are allowed to grow long and the shoes have pads attached to get the horse to display the high stepping gait.

Sometimes (as in the pic) the pad is hollowed and filled with sharp objects which prick the sole and make the horse lift it's legs higher and look more animated.

The practice of soring means bandaging a caustic substance on the pastern so it is raw. Then the chain that goes around the pastern to keep the hoof pad in place will bang on the raw skin when they move - and again make them more animated.

They have a handful of people that check for this practice - but often the horses are trained not to react when they are examined (by causing pain somewhere else) so that they pass inspection.

This is the agonised stance of a Big Lick TWH

biglickhorse-1.jpg
 
marydoll said:
Withers can be surgically (illegally) shaved in order for jumping ponies to make the height for their classes
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OMG! is my gut reaction but I'm sure they are given serious pain relief. :( Disgusting. How do people even come up with these ideas. :confused:

We are not content with breeding for extreme characteristics we also mutilate and torture to get our own twisted ideas of beauty. :( My blood is starting to boil.

I will never understand any of it... horses are perfectly magical, looking and moving just as they are.

ps. Re wither shaving. I'm so naive I guessed it was shaving hairs to create a sensitive area or something.
 
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Oberon said:
It's the pad underneath a Big Lick TWH. The hooves are allowed to grow long and the shoes have pads attached to get the horse to display the high stepping gait.

Sometimes (as in the pic) the pad is hollowed and filled with sharp objects which prick the sole and make the horse lift it's legs higher and look more animated.

The practice of soring means bandaging a caustic substance on the pastern so it is raw. Then the chain that goes around the pastern to keep the hoof pad in place will bang on the raw skin when they move - and again make them more animated.

They have a handful of people that check for this practice - but often the horses are trained not to react when they are examined (by causing pain somewhere else) so that they pass inspection.

This is the agonised stance of a Big Lick TWH

biglickhorse-1.jpg
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If theres a hell, that evil woman at the end of the leadrope and the others that took part in torturing this and im sure other horses will rot in it :mad:
 
marydoll said:
If theres a hell, that evil woman at the end of the leadrope and the others that took part in torturing this and im sure other horses will rot in it :mad:
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Nope.

They get away with it, win money from the showing classes and continue to find justifications for their practices :(.

Baby steps though - the internet has shone a light on this hidden world.

As a result of the scandal from the undercover video this year - a man has been prosecuted and Pepsi pulled their sponsorship of one of the major TWH shows.
 
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