What puts people off cribbers so much?

S

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Just following on from the “what would put you off buying a horse” thread, was interesting to see that a lot of you put “crib biting” as one of your main put offs. We’ve got a couple of cribbers in at the moment and I know my reasons for being wary of them in future, but just wondered specifically why you would be put off by a cribber.
 
I wouldn't be put off buying a cribber - and years ago I remember a vet from the AHT telling us that cribbers were what he would buy because he'd get them cheap...and there's nothing wrong with them.
Humans create cribbers; we shouldn't blame them for it.
S :D
 
I know there can be problems but wouldnt bother me, comes at the bottom of my priorities list in the catergory of prefer not to have but would put up with.
 
I wouldn't be put off by a cribber.
I have one and it doesnt affect his health whatsoever. His teeth are good, he holds his weight etc.
I have never prevented him from cribbing and he always did it alot at his old yard. He lived out all summer this year and came in this winter and has done it a lot less. He doesn't seem so bothered about it now. Maybe its 6 years of being stress free and cereal free!
 
Most people either don't want damage that they can cause, the threat of illness or the worry of not being allowed on a yard with a cribber.

That being said, I had a cribber who was a good doer, never coliced and actually didn't destroy anything.
 
Shilasdair said:
I wouldn't want to keep any horse of mine at a yard where the owner knew so little, anyway. :p
Next you'll be saying that you should put on crib collars/use cribbox, lol.
S :D
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The yard owners reasoning is the hassle that they would get from the other liveries concerned about their horse learning the habit. Its not matter of factual accuracy, but avoiding grief off existing customers. To be honest, for a quiet life, I would do the same if I were them.
 
qwertyuiop said:
The yard owners reasoning is the hassle that they would get from the other liveries concerned about their horse learning the habit. Its not matter of factual accuracy, but avoiding grief off existing customers. To be honest, for a quiet life, I would do the same if I were them.
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That's where we differ then; I believe ignorance should be corrected, not tacitly encouraged. :p
S :D
 
I was worried when I moved my horse away from home that I'd struggle to find him somewhere but YO doesn't really seem to care! Only thing that would put me off is the fact that we've only ever had 2 horses have colic and they are the only 2 cribbers we've had!!

Even so, because I don't have much money I'd rather have a cheap cribber than a non cheap, non cribber!
 
I was very wary of taking my cribber to a new yard and couldnt have been more wrong about peoples attitutes. Not one person has questioned it or made a fuss. And YO isnt bothered at all. I have actually now (for the sake of a nice stable door) put some piping across the top - but if he wanted to he could get down the side of it! He doesn't really bother anymore though.
 
I was actively encouraged to buy my boy knowing her is a cribber. A lot of the top event/SJ horses do it as it's a stress/frustration outlet - although my boy is really laid back and it's linked with food.

Funny thing my dad's loopy little TB does more damage to his stable by stripping stuff and running his teeth down things - my boy has made a groove on his door but if I'd put a metal strip there would be no evidence at all.

A recent EDT told me that cribbing is the very last thing he would worry about. My boy maintains weight etc so I can't see why other than lack of knowledge and understanding.
 
I'm not put off cribbers at all. My boy crib bites and always has done as a result of being stabled 24/7 with half day turn out a week when he was eventing. He's now 25 and although he's lost his top front teeth due to it, it has never effected his health. He just passes a lot of gas! Haha. There is also another cribber at the yard but luckily none of the other have picked it up!
 
qwertyuiop said:
The yard owners reasoning is the hassle that they would get from the other liveries concerned about their horse learning the habit. Its not matter of factual accuracy, but avoiding grief off existing customers. To be honest, for a quiet life, I would do the same if I were them.
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Horses don't 'learn' the habit, it isn't a habit as such. If people were more informed then I would say that people wouldn't be so prejudiced. Horses start to crib for a number of reasons, can be stress relief, ulcers and so on. It is like a safety blanket for the horse and although we might take them out of the stressful place, it wont necessarily make them stop.

Having a yard full of cribbers would not make me look at the one that came in with it, it would be the management of the yard.
 
Shilasdair said:
.
Humans create cribbers; we shouldn't blame them for it.
S :D
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Utter rubbish - where did you get that from? The actual FACT is that no one knows definitevely WHY horses crib, WHAT sets them off or HOW to stop it. Your comments are poorly informed and not helpful for people who have horses with this problem.

I would not have a cribber - colic issues not with standing (and I have seen first hand cribbing causing colic - numerous times). The main reason is because I can't cure it or get to the bottom of why my horse would do it. Believe me, when you have exhausted all the obvious reasons (forage, boredom, ulcers etc etc) and still have a horse with this habit you are not quite so inclined to go down this route again.

Now if someone could prove without doubt that a would be cribber is purely a bad habit and there is no underlying physical or mental reason/discomfort causing it then I wouldn't bother. I accept that some horses just seem to do it on an ad basis and its little enough that you can pretty much ignore it but I really wouldn't choose to go through all the fact finding that I did last time.
 
I don't understnad why people still believe they learn the habit?

At the yard I'm on there's been a weaver and there's now a cribber. None of the other horses have copied so surely they don't learn to copy?

To sort out the solution of chewing fences the owner of the cribber just puts electric tape a few metres short of the post and rail, sorted!
 
i wouldnt be fussed tbh..my mare windsuck every now and again, particularly on haynets so she is fed from the floor now. the presumption people make that horses learn and pick up the habbit is the biggest load of tosh ever! It down to horses health and managment. if you have your horse stabled 24/7 with no routine or enrichment and then wonder why it starts cribbing??.. its not because the horse on the other side of the yard does it.
we have one that loosens post out of the ground when cribbing on them over the years which is a pain but you live with it.
 
I agree that I don't think it is a learned habit. In my own personal experience I have seen certain breeding lines seem to be more disposed to it - kept in a variety of environments (by this I mean, competition yard to happy hacker). There are definate levels of behaviour as well but this, logically to me, just underlines the fact while the outcome may look the same (windsucks/cribs), the underlying reasons can be very different. I don't believe either it is just down to horse health and management - my horse always always had ad lib hay, never left empty, turned out everyday, worked continuously. We even tried putting him onto a oat straw bed as an experiment but that didn't stop him. He was turned out a lot (even ended up living out to help) but what worried me was - he was in a field with electric fencing so could not crib - but do you see my point - by "false" means, I stopped his cribbing. We could never find out why he did it or what we were ignoring that caused it.
 
lochpearl said:
Horses don't 'learn' the habit, it isn't a habit as such. If people were more informed then I would say that people wouldn't be so prejudiced. Horses start to crib for a number of reasons, can be stress relief, ulcers and so on. It is like a safety blanket for the horse and although we might take them out of the stressful place, it wont necessarily make them stop.

Having a yard full of cribbers would not make me look at the one that came in with it, it would be the management of the yard.
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As I said if you read my earlier post properly, it doesn't matter whether the habit can be learnt or not. The fact is that enough people think that it does and would kick up a fuss about a cribber coming to their yard. Perceptions in this case are more important than facts.
 
Luci07 said:
Utter rubbish - where did you get that from? The actual FACT is that no one knows definitevely WHY horses crib, WHAT sets them off or HOW to stop it. Your comments are poorly informed and not helpful for people who have horses with this problem.

I would not have a cribber - colic issues not with standing (and I have seen first hand cribbing causing colic - numerous times). The main reason is because I can't cure it or get to the bottom of why my horse would do it. Believe me, when you have exhausted all the obvious reasons (forage, boredom, ulcers etc etc) and still have a horse with this habit you are not quite so inclined to go down this route again.

Now if someone could prove without doubt that a would be cribber is purely a bad habit and there is no underlying physical or mental reason/discomfort causing it then I wouldn't bother. I accept that some horses just seem to do it on an ad basis and its little enough that you can pretty much ignore it but I really wouldn't choose to go through all the fact finding that I did last time.
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No need to be so defensive - I can only guess that you had a cribber, probably one you used a collar or cribbox on, am I right? :D When I say 'humans create cribbers' I didn't mean you personally :p, but I've yet to see a non-domesticated equine performing a stereotypy.
There is some excellent research on stereotypies - try the EVJ and similar, which debunk quite a lot of the old wives' tales (boredom, etc) and are well worth reading.
In particular there have been some good studies into weaning techniques, and genetic predispositions.
S :D
 
Shilasdair said:
No need to be so defensive - I can only guess that you had a cribber, probably one you used a collar or cribbox on, am I right? :D When I say 'humans create cribbers' I didn't mean you personally :p, but I've yet to see a non-domesticated equine performing a stereotypy.
There is some excellent research on stereotypies - try the EVJ and similar, which debunk quite a lot of the old wives' tales (boredom, etc) and are well worth reading.
In particular there have been some good studies into weaning techniques, and genetic predispositions.
S :D
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I am - sorry if you felt I jumped down your throat but making statements like that just points the finger at the owners and it just not as simply as that. I have read extensively, different vets, different approachs, different feeds, supplements, routine and nothing stopped him. I also saw on a number of different occasions, horses ending up with surgical colic which also freaked me out (having gone through that delight before). The one thing we do agree is I do believe that there are certain lines which are predisposed to it, and my horse was quite a stressy git.

Overwhelmingly though - its a problem and no one can resolve it at this time.
 
Luci07 said:
I am - sorry if you felt I jumped down your throat but making statements like that just points the finger at the owners and it just not as simply as that. I have read extensively, different vets, different approachs, different feeds, supplements, routine and nothing stopped him. I also saw on a number of different occasions, horses ending up with surgical colic which also freaked me out (having gone through that delight before). The one thing we do agree is I do believe that there are certain lines which are predisposed to it, and my horse was quite a stressy git.

Overwhelmingly though - its a problem and no one can resolve it at this time.
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If it helps you, I have a weaver. Had she been allowed to live out 24/7 on forage in a herd environment, I doubt she would be a weaver today. And I have two which needed colic surgery; neither have any stereotypies. Anecdotal evidence doesn't really prove much.
Humans create horses with stereotypies.
S :D
 
i wouldnt have a cribber simply because of the damage that can occur. There is a cribber in the field with my mare and our lovely post and rail fences are getting trashed. The 'odd job' guy came a few weeks ago and had to replace 19 planks!
 
For me it would depend on how much they cribbed. I know one pony who will destroy any piece of wood she can find and is a nightmare to manage, but there are many who only crib in certain situations and who can be put off by treating the wood.
 
I would probably still buy it if it was perfect for me in every other way but if not I wouldn't buy it. Purely and simply because there is one at the yard and it annoys the hell out of me because it just does it constantly, I know I'm probably going to get shot down fo saying that but I don't care- also not knowing the cause would worry me as I couldn't do anything to help it :o
 
I had a cribber for seven and a half years, he never had colic, never destroyed anything (well, he wore a *small* groove in the top of his stable door), kept weight on, and was generally one of the happiest horses I've known. I never tried to stop him doing it, and nobody at the yard had a problem ... he didn't do it constantly, only after he'd had dinner/a treat, and then occasionally throughout the day.

Definitely wouldn't put me off.
 
I have to admit to never wanting one but have not really done very much research into the long term affects - however, I believe (and I will reitterate I do not KNOW for sure) that they can have dental issues later in life, possible colic issues and also they are very difficult to re-sell on if you need to.
 
I don't have a problem with a cribber per sey, but I would think very carefully about purchasing a cribber. For a start you have a % of horse people for whom it is a problem and you may have problems in selling on if needed or finding suitable local stabling. Add to that quite often insurance companies will exclude colic payouts if linked to such stable vices.

So for me, I would only consider a slightly older cribber who has proven performance and known veterinary history that doesn't include colic issues.
 
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