What should a 4 year old be doing, schooling wise?

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My four year old is away for schooling at the moment, but he will hopefully be coming back soon with walk-trot-canter established. He was lightly backed then turned away last year, so I don't intend to turn him away again, and I want to be continuing his education.

So my question is - schooling wise, what would you expect a four year old to be doing? I was reading an article recently that said that even a green horse should be capable of a clean canter to walk transition, but I don't even know how to begin teaching unless I start with collecting the canter, and I'm not sure if that's too much for a young horse to be coping with? Do I start from the beginning with lateral work, or is that too much as well? Basically, if you were buying a four year old, how educated would you expect it to be on the flat?

Thanks in advance for any replies!
 
A four year old should be able to go on an horizontal frame, starting to use his back and hind leg consistently. The horse should start to understand the concept of a half stop and outside rein.

You can start to introduce baby leg yields once the horse has a nice forward contact.

I would never ever dream of asking a four year old to do a walk canter transition.

A good idea would be for you to read through the 4 year old FEI dressage test and use that as a base. I compete at FEI young horse level so I usually expect the horse to work at its age level - although some horses take longer to develop so this shouldn't be set in stone.
 
Depends entirely on the horse! As a reasonably well developed, sensible 4YO, I'd expect it to be walking, trotting, cantering, popping a small fence, hacking out and cantering upsides sanely and starting to work into a fairly consistent frame and starting very very basic leg yield. I completely agree with you, walk to canter to walk is something I'm not entirely sure is necessary as it wouldn't feature in a dressage test until Elementary and as you said the collection to do it correctly may not be established sufficiently.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
walk, trot, canter
lengthened strides in trot and canter
trot/halt/trot
rein back
leg yield in trot
walk to canter
counter canter on a straight line (ie not round the corner)
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Completely disagree - this is what I would expect a 5 year old to be doing, not a 4y/o.
 
SCMSL said:
A four year old should be able to go on an horizontal frame, starting to use his back and hind leg consistently. The horse should start to understand the concept of a half stop and outside rein.

You can start to introduce baby leg yields once the horse has a nice forward contact.

I would never ever dream of asking a four year old to do a walk canter transition.

A good idea would be for you to read through the 4 year old FEI dressage test and use that as a base. I compete at FEI young horse level so I usually expect the horse to work at its age level - although some horses take longer to develop so this shouldn't be set in stone.
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What is wrong with a 4-year old doing walk to canter?? I show jump but the four-year olds I ride learn walk to canter. Its a pretty handy transition to know I think.
 
Totally depends on the horse :)

My 4 yr old hasn't cantered under saddle yet although we will start canter work soon. Currently he is able to do walk and trot with a few lengthened strides, he does a nice square halt, stands to be mounted, is hacking in company and alone, has seen plenty of traffic, goes through streams, happily trots poles, rein back (kind of!)

Walk to canter I don't see a problem with, can really help them to engage their quarters but canter to walk takes some quite good balance that I'm not sure my 4 yr old has just yet
 
Thanks for all the advice so far. I will check out the FEI test - I know when I was interested in young horse classes though I was told that the others would be working at elementary-ish, which has worried me a bit.

The walk to canter isn't a problem, it's canter to walk I'm concerned about. I don't understand how I would begin to teach it without first being able to collect the canter, and I'm not sure if that would be a good thing to do with a gangly four year old. Would you start to introduce 10m circles in trot/15m circles in canter as well, or is that also too big an ask? He's a big lad and fairly immature, so I want to take it slowly but equally if I need to sell him (and I am currently still considering the possibility) I don't want him to be too far behind others of his age.
 
SCMSL said:
Completely disagree - this is what I would expect a 5 year old to be doing, not a 4y/o.
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agree to disagree then, by the middle of its 5yo year would expect simple changes,shoulder in, baby HP at least in trot,walk piris,med trot and canter, and a clean if green flying change each way, and some baby half steps if a natural at them.

would not expect them to be show ready but would expect to have started work on them.

6yo should have an established change on the serpentine or straight, trot and canter HP at med level angle, ext trot and canter, baby passage, half steps, huge working piri.

7yo should be schooling PSG.

every horse is diff and if it can barely trot in a straight line i wouldnt be expecting picture perfect leg yields etc, but they need to be doing something to start to straighten and supple up, not just womble round in egg shaped circles!
 
Transitions from canter to walk demand a great deal of collection and balance - most 4yo (specially big WB's) are unable to do them and if you insist you'll probably ruin both the walk and the canter.

If you have a well muscled and balanced horse it isn't hard to actually teach the exercises. If you start teaching them one exercise after the other without having a good base, you'll find yourself with a 7 yo who can perform all the PSG *tricks* but who won't score squat because he isn't established in the baby stuff. Of course there are exceptions but this is my experience.
 
Horses walk to canter in the field all the time - let a fresh one go at the gate if you don't believe me. ;)

But, as in our discussions of flying changes, what the jumpers want and what would be expected to get a good mark in a YH class are different.

I never really understand this question, I'll confess. Surely the horse tells the rider how its doing and what can come next? Some 4 yr olds are jumping 1m+ classes, some struggle to trot a 20m circle. (Sometimes that's the same horse!,;)) I realise I am not the typical buyer but I would like to see a 4 yr old working into the hand with a soft back and active hind leg. I'd want it to be calm but cheery and able to work well for any competent rider. If I thought the trainer had sacrificed, say, consistency in the contact or willingness to go forward by making it do specific movements then I'd walk as I know it's much easier to progress a horse with good basics.
 
TarrSteps said:
I would like to see a 4 yr old working into the hand with a soft back and active hind leg. I'd want it to be calm but cheery and able to work well for any competent rider. If I thought the trainer had sacrificed, say, consistency in the contact or willingness to go forward by making it do specific movements then I'd walk as I know it's much easier to progress a horse with good basics.
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That makes two of us then.

And I guess you did mention something important - I am 100% dressage oriented. What I said previously is regarding a 100% dressage horse, not an allrounder. And in fact I wouldn't even know what an allrounder 4 yo should be doing.

However, when you say the horse tells the rider what can come next, I cannot fully agree with you. Sometimes you need to push them a bit in a certain area to obtain an overall effect.
 
Some very interesting points here.

I should have added - he is a WB and naturally has very big expressive paces, so I think collection will be tougher for him than for, say, a PRE of the same age. And I am only considering dressage here - he won't be doing any jumping until next year at the earliest, and even then only for something a bit different to do.
 
I don't think we do disagree. I did not mean the horse gets to CHOOSE the path or rate of progression, I meant that how the horse reacts to each new demand dictates the speed of progress. If the horse is still struggling at one level in one area then it is not ready to progress, even though it might be progressing much more quickly in another area.

Also - the thing we're not supposed to say - the rider's ability and experience has a huge bearing on the horse's progress.
 
SCMSL said:
That makes two of us then.
QUOTE]

Three of us then - me as well! Most of my observations relate to dressage and show jumping. Working well and happy and relaxed in its work, doing what it's frame and brain are ready for. A very good trainer once told me riders limit what horses think they can do by not making it easy for them to learn or by putting them in a situation where they will fail. Some top class horses never come out in young horse classes as their trainers would never put them in a situation where they will fail (let alone ruin their reputation!)
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1t34 said:
A very good trainer once told me riders limit what horses think they can do by not making it easy for them to learn or by putting them in a situation where they will fail.
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That is a wonderful way of thinking! :)

The thing is, even if a horse has extreme talent for collection and wants to give it to you, I still don't think you should explore it (generally, of course!)

The first horse I trained myself from a young age, was super easy on the flying changes. So I started playing around with them when he was 5. Well, later on it made it super hard to get other exercises to perfection. I guess what I mean is the scale of training is there for a reason. My current horse will also be super on the flying changes. If she "steals" one, I just ignore it - I won't ever ask them at this age again.
 
I think it does depend on the horse and its maturity both mentally and physically. My boy was just doing walk, trot, canter and baby lateral work as a 4 year old but his canter has taken absolutely ages to develop and is only half way there now as a 6 year old.
My current 4 year old in comparison is very well balanced and finds going in a natural outline very easy and also learns quickly so I expect she will learn faster than my 6 year old.
 
If you would like him to do the age classes then he would have to be working to the level that PS has already mentioned. The fei YH for a 4 year old is about Novice level and for 5 year olds is about Elem level. If you want to do the shearwater international classes both 4 and 5 year olds have to do walk/trot/canter plus medium trot and canter. Hope that helps :)
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
walk, trot, canter
lengthened strides in trot and canter
trot/halt/trot
rein back
leg yield in trot
walk to canter
counter canter on a straight line (ie not round the corner)
Click to expand...

Pretty much this for my 4yo. I've not long had him, my instructor backed him and brought him on so he's been professionally 'produced'. I don't see the problem with walk to canter? I do a lot of walk to canter when jumping.
 
Agree with TarrStepps and SCMSL.*

Personally I don't believe a 4 year old should even be "specialising" in dressage at this age. I think its ridiculous to say they should do this move or that move at that age, it depends on the ability and how it will develop the horse. I can't stand seeing advanced horses ending up moving like robots with no natural energy or cadence, being kicked around or resisting as they haven't been produced properly. I think a little walk to canter in a field is fine but I certainly wouldn't be aiming to do canter to walk until the horse is more physically developed.

Having competed in the Shearwater YH and last week the Badminton Championships on a 4 year old, the emphasis has very much been on maintaining the natural, forwards quality of the gaits no matter what. Over produced, short necked horses were penalised for lack of suppleness and relaxation and the top placed horses were the ones very well ridden to allow them to move freely forwards in good balance, not even necessarily with the most spectacular paces. I did not see anyone put more fancy stuff in the test than what was required. Reminds me I must do a more detailed report!
 
~ Clear Light ~ said:
Having competed in the Shearwater YH and last week the Badminton Championships on a 4 year old, the emphasis has very much been on maintaining the natural, forwards quality of the gaits no matter what. Over produced, short necked horses were penalised for lack of suppleness and relaxation and the top placed horses were the ones very well ridden to allow them to move freely forwards in good balance, not even necessarily with the most spectacular paces. I did not see anyone put more fancy stuff in the test than what was required. Reminds me I must do a more detailed report!
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Great to hear. And, yes, report, please. :)
 
Sorry, OP, reading back this sounds a bit like we're having a go, but honestly not. I would not buy or advise anyone else to buy on the basis of a horse being able to do this or that movement IF the basic work was being done correctly and the horse just wasn't there yet. By the same token, if the horse was just trucking around with its head in the air, that would make me wonder, too. It's not that I'm advocating not asking questions, it's just that, as you asked about selling, I would want to see a horse doing what it is doing WELL, albeit in a green way, rather than doing "bigger" things with less proficiency. I agree some people will be swayed by a young horse doing more "advanced" work but you will have to decide if you want to pander to those people.

If you want to do age classes and your horse is of the type to do well in them then yes, there are certain things it has to be doing. But don't forget these are "material" classes and judged on the horse's potential, both in how he moves etc and in how he is being produced. A horse that is impressive and basically correct but makes a few green mistakes will place over a horse that looks stressed or robotic or struggling, even if it technically does the right things at the right time. They are not classes for every horse and pros are very particular about the horses they put in them. It might count for something for a horse to have gone out and done a few competitions to show that it can but if your goal is to produce for the higher levels of the discipline my advice would be if it's not the type or at a stage to do well, don't do them.
 
Depends on what you want to do with the horse! Personally I'd just want forwardness, confidence, respect and a happy horse that has the first building blocks firmly in place.
 
All depends on the horse. Some are ready to offer more than others. I have a four year old bred for dressage - hohenstein x va tout who is still very much a baby. He has a lot of maturing to do as he's 17.3 and growing. The work he's doing is very low key, with a horse like him I need the basics absolutely in place before moving on. I'm very pleased with his progress, he's off my leg, understands aids from my seat, and is doing flexion work in hand which then translates to work under saddle. He's cantering on the gallops but not under saddle in the arena as he's just not balanced enough. Other four year olds are out competing and doing well - but they are more mature and balanced - and not quite as big ;)
 
i would imagine that 99% of the 4yo in the shearwater and Badders champs, are working on the things i listed, at home. doing them perfectly no, but working on them yes. a baby leg yield helps straightness, a bay walk to canter helps balance and sit. a baby rein back ditto balance and sit.

and at no point have i said the horse would be short/tight/tense. for a good rider it is perfectly possible to be doing those things in a soft natural outline, working from behind over the back in to the hand.
Of course a lesser rider will not be able to do that, so it really depends on the rider as much as the horse-someone with experience and super feel will be able to produce these movements in a fun, fluid, happy way, where as someone with less feel or experience may get drawn in to drilling them or stressing the horse out.

if in doubt do less not more, but my list is based on a decent 4yo with an experienced rider.
 
I think everyone's right with the exception of the canter to walk - far too much collection required. Walk to canter - yes, absolutely. I've had 4yos capable (and good) enough to do all the things that PS lists and that would be capable of YH classes, and those (like my current one who I started breaking in in May) who are cantering happily at home but not quite ready to do it in a test environment. After all things like leg yield are only asking the horse to understand that the leg can mean 'move over' rather than just 'faster'.

If anyone's interested there is a similar thread in New Lounge and the differences between here and there in what people expect are huge - some people on that thread have 6yos that can't canter 20m circles yet, yet pretty much everyone on here has agreed that they'd expect a reasonably schooled 4yo to do at least Prelim canter movements. Different strokes...
 
I agree with those who said happy, forward, balanced and rhythmical- every 4yr old is different so there's no prescribed list. I want my young horse to enjoy it's work, develop its muscular strength without ever feeling over tired in body or brain and to want to train on.
I've sat on far too many who have been pushed and who are then resistant in later work
 
Gamebird said:
If anyone's interested there is a similar thread in New Lounge and the differences between here and there in what people expect are huge - some people on that thread have 6yos that can't canter 20m circles yet, yet pretty much everyone on here has agreed that they'd expect a reasonably schooled 4yo to do at least Prelim canter movements. Different strokes...
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The new lounge 'lot' lack understanding of development of the horse in my humble opinion. I know I would be shot down in flames saying that over there, but for a horse to develop correctly correct work will help.
Its a bit like saying kids shouldn't do P.E until they reach the age of 18.
Correct work (and I stress this) will help the horse develop and strengthen. No one on here is saying to 'hammer' the horse but what has been suggested will help to get an obedient horse capable of developing correctly.
An extremely unfit overweight youngster is far more detrimental to health than one who is light work and is semi-fit. Also bones and muscles are only going to strengthen with gentle work, not by doing nothing. With no work until the horse is 6 the horse will have poorly conditioned bones and be weaker, therefore more liable to injury.
Also horses are capable of doing work at young age, in the wild horses would have to go with herd from day 1 or be eaten.
So basically- simple schooling in all the paces would be fine and even beneficial for a 4 year old, doing nothing is actually detrimental imo.
 
I find this interesting, I have been told by someone to not worry what other people are doing with their babies, just worry about yours. :)

My horse turned 4 in May, she has since then grown a few inches, filled out, had a holiday, wolf teeth out and her saddle refitted as she has gone up two dress sizes. I'm happy my girl will hack out on her own and in company, we walk and trot on our hacks as I haven't yet cantered her under saddle. I would rather perfect our way of going in the lower paces before introducing canter.
She lunges well in all paces, is very good on voice command and is super to long rein. She has walked over poles under saddle and on the lunge/long rein, she has also done trotting poles too. I haven't put her over a jump yet, loose or on lunge, I know she can jump as has been proven by field hopping lol. but I don't yet see the need to.
She is mainly to be used as an all rounder but I have been told she is built to event, not sure about me just yet though :P
I speak as a low level rider (RC mainly but not for a while!) but have had dealings with the other end of the scale where the horses were bred and produced to event at top level.

I suppose if the horse has a job to do, it needs to be prepared/produced to do that job. Would there be young horse classes if the horses chouldnt/shouldnt be doing the work??
 
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