What should a 4 year old be doing, schooling wise?

Ps our v large warmblood was working on all the things PS describes at 4/5/6 and is successfully competing medium as a 6year old. I also know international level 6 yr old who does advanced level type work at mo.
 
Gamebird said:
If anyone's interested there is a similar thread in New Lounge and the differences between here and there in what people expect are huge - some people on that thread have 6yos that can't canter 20m circles yet, yet pretty much everyone on here has agreed that they'd expect a reasonably schooled 4yo to do at least Prelim canter movements. Different strokes...
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Yes, I've read that thread - interesting isn't it. Even with horses that struggle with cantering in the school initially, I generally find that within a couple of months they are perfectly capable of cantering around a 40x20 arena, without having to drill them in any way. I think hacking is very useful for some things, but often riders don't really concentrate on what they and the horse are doing in the same way as they would in the school, so it can often be counterproductive in improving the horse's way of going.
 
Just a point to the YH classes. . .they were originally developed to 'talent spot' potential custom bred International horses and as part of the appraisal, competition, and marketing aims of the big studbooks. They were never intended to be markers of what the 'average' horse should be doing. In fact even people who specifically produce for these classes don't expect them to be suitable for every horse. The ones that do excel usually take relatively little prep and if they are many top horses have skipped them completely.

They are not meant to be 'a good experience' (although they can be for the right horses) or even a standard, they are an assessment scheme for prodigies.
 
Gamebird said:
If anyone's interested there is a similar thread in New Lounge and the differences between here and there in what people expect are huge - some people on that thread have 6yos that can't canter 20m circles yet, yet pretty much everyone on here has agreed that they'd expect a reasonably schooled 4yo to do at least Prelim canter movements. Different strokes...
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I replied to the thread in NL so will reply to this comment too. When I got mine as a 5yo, he'd had no formal schooling at all, just 1.5/2 years of going in completely the wrong way, upside down, being razzed over jumps out hunting. So he had a lot to unlearn, a lot of incorrect muscle and combine that with a teenage "why should I?" attitude, means he was a bit further behind that would be expected. I'm only a leisure rider really, though I do compete (will affiliate BE next year but only doing 90s). I got to a point with him earlier this year when we weren't progressing at all so handed the reins over, quite literally, to my YO. In a short space of time, the improvement in him has been massive. The change of rider - from me doing the best I could, to an eventer competing at Int, jumpin 1m20+ tracks, competing DR at a much higher level than me - has done so much for his schooling in a short space of time. A lot is obviously to do with her experience, knowledge, feel/timing and clarity of the aids (ie, much better than mine!). But I also think a lot is to do with what she expects from him. She simply expects the horse to deliver, and he does with her on board (and I'm learning how to get that myself now, with plenty of lessons and support).

So for me, it's been a bit of a revelation to see how different the expectations of someone like that are, compared to my own.
 
dominobrown said:
The new lounge 'lot' lack understanding of development of the horse in my humble opinion.
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Hey :mad: I spend most of my time in NL and I'd like to confirm that some of us believe a 4 year old should be capable of doing a reasonable prelim / novice. Even my plebby, home broken highland was competing happily in prelims at 4. My current 3 y/old will also be capable of performing one (he's roughed off now with the basic transitions, straight line canter, etc.

Mind you, Fergs is 7 and working nearer 5 y/old level according to PS's standards :p


wow the new angry smiley has a stunning white 'tache... What's that all about?
 
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JFTD said:
Hey :mad: I spend most of my time in NL and I'd like to confirm that some of us believe a 4 year old should be capable of doing a reasonable prelim / novice. Even my plebby, home broken highland was competing happily in prelims at 4. My current 3 y/old will also be capable of performing one (he's roughed off now with the basic transitions, straight line canter, etc.

Mind you, Fergs is 7 and working nearer 5 y/old level according to PS's standards :p


wow the new angry smiley has a stunning white 'tache... What's that all about?
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TBH I wasn't talking about you! I have seen your baby highland in pictures etc and he actually looks to be doing really well for his age and I think IMO you are on the right tracks. Can I ask though- have you ever had to defend ourself for backing/ what you do with your horses at the age they are in NL?
And also having worked with Highlands, they do get incredibly fat very easily, which again would be worse for your young horses health, both of yours look like nice fit, healthy ponies. :)
Sorry for generalising about everyone in NL!
 
dominobrown said:
TBH I wasn't talking about you! I have seen your baby highland in pictures etc and he actually looks to be doing really well for his age and I think IMO you are on the right tracks. Can I ask though- have you ever had to defend ourself for backing/ what you do with your horses at the age they are in NL?
And also having worked with Highlands, they do get incredibly fat very easily, which again would be worse for your young horses health, both of yours look like nice fit, healthy ponies. :)
Sorry for generalising about everyone in NL!
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Hehe, don't worry, the indignation was definitely tongue in cheek! Funnily enough, I don't post many photos of Dae in there as I had one person tell me he looked much younger than I claim he is, and seems very unhappy :p He does look young, partly because he's cursed with horrific conformation (the shortest neck I've ever seen! I really hope it's just fugly stage!) and partly because he's slim and not obese like most highland youngstock you see. I've never had to defend what I do with Fergs as I didn't join until he was 5 and didn't post much about him till later. I've actually been expecting backlash for him being in the double in my sig ;)

Thanks - I put a lot of work into keeping them fit / slim. Fergs carried too much weight as a 4-5 y/old (due to being turned away and me stupidly feeding hay/ too much grass due to yard pressures and then being on box rest for months) and I'm determined not get back like that, or put Dae through the same stresses. :)
 
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Having bred, backed and produced my own horse(hes now 5) have another 2 yr old (homebred) waiting in the wings and a 4yr old, I would say it depends entirely on the horse.

However I actually would never do a 4yr old class on any of mine as I think its too much too soon for them - horses joints/bones aren't fully formed and fused until they are at least 5 1/2 years old and some not until they are 6/7 (dependant on the breed).

All I would ever want to ask from a 4yr old is nice forwards and off the leg into a soft contact, good transitions up and down the paces and to be hacking out confidently.
I would want them to be doing trot poles and a few small fences (my dressage horses all jump and hack regularly).

Once they are 5 and more physically and mentally mature then ask a bit more, its easy to push horses especially if they are talented.
 
Tempi said:
Having bred, backed and produced my own horse(hes now 5) have another 2 yr old (homebred) waiting in the wings and a 4yr old, I would say it depends entirely on the horse.

However I actually would never do a 4yr old class on any of mine as I think its too much too soon for them - horses joints/bones aren't fully formed and fused until they are at least 5 1/2 years old and some not until they are 6/7 (dependant on the breed).

All I would ever want to ask from a 4yr old is nice forwards and off the leg into a soft contact, good transitions up and down the paces and to be hacking out confidently.
I would want them to be doing trot poles and a few small fences (my dressage horses all jump and hack regularly).

Once they are 5 and more physically and mentally mature then ask a bit more, its easy to push horses especially if they are talented.
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** Nods in agreement **
 
Tempi said:
Having bred, backed and produced my own horse(hes now 5) have another 2 yr old (homebred) waiting in the wings and a 4yr old, I would say it depends entirely on the horse.

However I actually would never do a 4yr old class on any of mine as I think its too much too soon for them - horses joints/bones aren't fully formed and fused until they are at least 5 1/2 years old and some not until they are 6/7 (dependant on the breed).

All I would ever want to ask from a 4yr old is nice forwards and off the leg into a soft contact, good transitions up and down the paces and to be hacking out confidently.
I would want them to be doing trot poles and a few small fences (my dressage horses all jump and hack regularly).

Once they are 5 and more physically and mentally mature then ask a bit more, its easy to push horses especially if they are talented.
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Im looking at buying a 4 year old next spring and this is my plan!
 
Totally agree with Tempi. However the 4yo YH tests are well within standard compared to the 5 and 6yo tests. At the Shearwater it was a very easy and short prelim style test and at Badminton you make up your own consisting of walk, trot, canter and lengthened strides in trot (which many people didn't even do) At the champs I had nowt planned and literally did a 4mins schooling session! Actually found it a good experience for a baby :-)

Yes the top pros on top horses will rush as time is money and they need to keep owners happy, which is a shame. If owners ask me to push a horse I will often start with "Well if it was mine I would rather do it this way instead because etc etc." The horse's mind and body should be the first and foremost consideration in training ahead of the rider's often superficial goals.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I do have a couple of very good trainers working with him and me - currently he's away for schooling and I'm having lessons on a schoolmaster. When he gets back we will be having frequent lessons together. I was just interested in other people's opinions about the sort of work he should be doing.

I will not be doing any young horse classes - he still has far too much maturing to do and right now he is all legs with no chest at all; he would look very unimpressive compared to the others.

Thanks again - a very interesting discussion and now I shall pop over to NL to read the other thread.
 
Just to add the 4 year old classes arent looking for produced, polished horses and they are just walk, trot, canter (as Clear Light says ^). I know 2 that had literally been backed and ridden for a month then wobbled their way round and did very well.

They are about looking for potenital not pushing/producing.

A lot of the time they are a good opportunity to get babies out to see the world.
 
Ferdinase514 said:
Just to add the 4 year old classes arent looking for produced, polished horses and they are just walk, trot, canter (as Clear Light says ^). I know 2 that had literally been backed and ridden for a month then wobbled their way round and did very well.

They are about looking for potenital not pushing/producing.


A lot of the time they are a good opportunity to get babies out to see the world.
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Agree, my 4yr old was backed at the beginning of his 4yr old year, was ridden about three times a week, spent most of his time in the field, and walked, trotted and cantered in a nice manner, infront of my leg to a soft contact. Its because i didnt want to over school him that i decided to do a few YH classes as it got him out and about a bit, which i felt was more important to his education than drilling him at home. He did two Potential International classes at PL's and was 6th and 7th, then he did the BD 4yr old test (easier than a prelim) and was 2nd on 7.9, and did the Championships at Hartpury and was just outside the top ten. This was all the competing he did as a 4yr old, and i never pushed him in anyway, or rode hm any differently at a show to how i rode him at home. He has a good brain, and i used the classes purely as education for him to see the world a little. But i have other youngsters that were in no way ready to do YH classes, so i didnt do them, simple as that, in my opinion YH classes have a place, but they are not for every horse. I certainly have never trained a horse specifically for them, and my 4yr old was only doing very basic work, walk, trot and canter in an easy, relaxed way.
 
The wife said:
Depends entirely on the horse! As a reasonably well developed, sensible 4YO, I'd expect it to be walking, trotting, cantering, popping a small fence, hacking out and cantering upsides sanely and starting to work into a fairly consistent frame and starting very very basic leg yield. I completely agree with you, walk to canter to walk is something I'm not entirely sure is necessary as it wouldn't feature in a dressage test until Elementary and as you said the collection to do it correctly may not be established sufficiently.
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I agree with this, and these are my targets with my 4yo, who is being trained as an allrounder rather than discipline specific.
 
I would just add, that i wouldnt dream of asking a 4yr old to do canter - walk, it requires more collection and balance that i would want to ask a 4yr old for, but i wouldnt mind asking for walk - canter, its far easier, and most 4yr olds are very capable of doing it.
 
Thank you Ferdinase! He is 5 now, and still pretty special (in my opinion anyway!) He qualified for Hartpury again with a win on 7.94, and qualified for the National Hickstead Championships and Novice Regionals. Still only being ridden three or four times a week and spending most of his time in a field. I just used him as an example, as i believe that taking time and going slowly when they are young really pays dividends in how they can progress when they are older.
 
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