What should I say?

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gallopingon

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Hello all, I'm a long time lurker, first time poster.

I have a bit of a dilemma. There is a lovely lady on the livery yard where I keep my horses and I help her with her horse. She is very novicey and has possibly over horsed herself. Her horse is beautiful and I do have a little 'horse-envy' going on. She is currently away for a few days and left me to look after the horse with the invite I could ride him if I liked. Of course I was going to have a little go. The horse is really unfit, normally creeps around the school so there was no way I was going to do much.

I was warming him up on a loose rein when he spooked quite dramatically in trot, threw in a huge buck before sticking his head between his knees and humping down the length of the school! It was a bit of a shock but I sat it fine and for me it was quite funny, but I know that the owner would have been launched either immediately after the spook or when he hit the eject button.

What do I tell her? Obviously I will say something, I couldn't think of not saying anything and then her getting hurt. But she's knows I'm a fairly experienced rider and that I ride freelance for a living so if I tell her he did a really big buck or a bad spook it would frighten her, bare in mind she would have no concept of what a bucking horse feels like and she is not the confident person anyway.

Horses are far easier to deal with than people. I really don't want to make her more nervous than she already is, as then she will be reluctant to do anything with the horse at the same time, it was a big spook and I was only in trot, in the school, so it is quite plausible that the situation may reoccur given similar circumstances.

So what do I say?
 
Unless she asks I wouldn't say anything. Is that wrong? :o Maybe tell her he was a bit naughty with you and was obviously "testing you"? Bit of a hard one really.

If she creeps around the school it could be because he was asked to do something a bit more exciting that he bucked.

Does she know how to lunge? Maybe teaching her how to lunge so she can get him going more forward.

Or, if you are a certified instructor maybe you could offer to give her some lessons if she'd like (in a non patronizing way)
 
I think I'd have to say something- for the sake of her safety. Not sure what though... Maybe enquire as to whether he's done anything like that before? If she says no, maybe it's something you did (like asking for a bit more). If the answer is yes, then you could recommend politely her getting some help. Either way, you've tried to warn her.
 
I would tell her, let her make the decision to get help. If she ignores you, on her own head be it. If you don't tell her and she gets injured you'll only feel bad.

Speaking as a novicey person who had to learn to sit a buck quickly :S (But I was warned, and possibly stupid!) X
 
Thank you for your replies. I will say something to her. I might just play it down a bit,

She does already have lessons which I think she will increase. when she rides she simply meanders about on loose reins mainly walking or a timid jog she feels safe on him and is very happy doing what she does. I am a bit concerned as I deal with this horse on a daily basis and have seen him light up in hand a few times and experiencing the speed of his sideways movement followed straight away by powerful buck does worry me a bit that we are waiting to see the other side to this charming older (16) gent.

I think teaching her to lunge would be a good idea. I would have thought that he may have done a good bit in his past and would hopefully be kind to her whilst she's learning. If he does start getting a bit above himself, then she'd also have another tool to help her cope.
 
I would have to tell her - he may need saddle etc checked and it's unlikely to be a complete one off. What she does with the info is up to her.
 
Any chance you can ride him again? Push him a bit to see if he repeats it? Honestly, if she's had him a little while and he's never done that to her, I'd be wondering what you did to cause it. I would tell her he spooked a bit and nothing more. She's having lessons so will have an instructor around and in my experience you can easily shake someone's confidence irreparably by implying something "might" happen. If you ride him again and he does the same, then I'd want to tell her in case it's a saddle fit issue or similar... Plus in case he gets into the habit.
 
She hasn't had him very long, I think 6 weeks absolute maximum. Ridden him 4 or 5 times that I can think of sometimes only for 15mins, I think she's been round the village twice and has had one ridden lesson and one on the ground because the instructor keeps rearranging.

I will probably be riding him again I was very positive about him in a brief text to let her know how I got on.

The horse is a good 16.2'', thoroughbred x warmblood, he has points BE, (think he got up to intermediate) and winnings BSJA but I don't know how much of either, he has also hunted and team chased. He moves fabulously and is quite a lot of horse to ride. Prior to this lady getting him he was turned away for about a year as the previous owners circumstances changed, so he is completely unfit and a bit of an unknown quantity.

The lady is in her mid fifties and decided it was now or never to get a horse as she didn't like going to the riding school and a previous share didn't work out for her. She is very gentle and the horse bullies her on the ground, he will just stick his head right up and walk over the top of her. I am helping her with the leading issues.

I think if I mention it casually it will be ok. skim over the top.
 
Wow that's some step up from a RS plod, I would pre-warn her, as I bet as soon as her instructor pushes her to start doing more she will get the same reaction. The joys of buying a school master, they know every trick in the book!
 
You probably asked more of him than she ever has, even your idea of a quiet time on a long rein will push the buttons he has not felt for some time and probably provoked the reaction which she may never get if all she does is potter about, it sounds as if underneath there is a lot of horse, far too much for the job, I would wonder why he was turned away and expect if he ever gets fitter he will be far sharper.

I would say something but keep it positive rather than state he spooked and bucked say something like he was full of beans and what a lovely ride he will be once he gets fit, maybe suggest you help if her instructor is not being cooperative about fixing set times, at least if you can get him more mannerly on the ground for her it would help as it sounds to me that without some input fairly soon it will go pear shaped although even with help the horse will probably soon, once it get colder and he is in more, start to show what he really is once the quiet, happy to potter for now, horse starts to find his feet in his new home.
 
I suspect he did this because you asked him to work and she lets him do as he please, tricky situation.
If it was me, I would want to ride him regulary for her and try to get her to understand that she really needs to learn to to ride him forward. Sooner or later there will be a battle, and I think you will have to have a chat with her.
You can say something like, "Gosh you are brave etc.."
Or approach it from the, "a lot of people are used to well trained, quiet riding school type, BUT"..............
Or just be upfront tell he how her horse reacted as soon as you asked him to work, and for this reason you think she needs to get quite a few lessons, maybe two or three in a week, and asap or he will get difficult for anyone to ride.
In the meantime ride him as much as possible, not enough to get him fit but enough to challenge him, schooling poles, hacking etc. It is possible he has napped with her, which he will do with you out hacking at the same place, so you would sort him out and then tell her how he stopped and wanted to come home, and how BAD this is, and it is called napping, anything he does not want to do for her is called napping, a habit which will escalate iif not nipped in the bud.
 
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You can give her "semi-lessons", where you ride the horse in the arena, explain about warmup, then ask the damn thing to do something familiar then something new, then put her on board and get her to repeat your lesson, then do a cool down. should take about 45mins.
Don't worry about the finer points of her riding, get him going forward and obedient. The last thing she needs is to increase fitness in a big way. Explain all this, otherwise how will she learn to see the big picture.
Check he is getting minimal feed and max turnout, many new owners buy competion nuts rather than Fast Fibre :), even horse and pony nuts are stuffed with molasses.
to many people this would be a wonderfullchallenge, to make him in to a decent type, but not many novices want this challenge, esp if they are already cautious and nervy.
Make sure he does not get petted, show her how to be confident in ground handling and explain how important it is that she becomes the leader of the pack, and this is not done by negotiation, it is done by leading.
 
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Can I speak from the owners side having been in a similar situation... just to offer my two pence worth!

My horse was a school mistress who had winnings from show jumping. She was probably the easiest thing to jump on the yard and if I was away with work/on holiday I was quite happy for her to be used in the odd lesson with a more experienced rider, or for the staffs qualification assessments.

She always jumped a bigger/more difficult course with others and enjoyed it, whereas I was quite happy pottering around smaller courses, which she would happily trickle around- considering I had a real confidence knock with my jumping, she was perfect.

It was only WAYYYYY down the line that I found out that one girl had come off her after she got really excited, girl clung on, so horse put in a few leaps and a stop at a fence.

I am not the most confident of riders, but as it is was my horse, I felt that I should have had every right to know what situations had arisen, even if it was downplayed in order to save my confidence. The fact absolutely nothing was said, for me to find out only a few months down the line did make me loose faith in them a bit. The horse was very well known and not new to me or the yard (and I had no concerns she may have begun doing the same with me), but if she had been they could have left me in danger of potentially getting hurt.

I certainly think it is worth a chat with her, even if you skim over it briefly in order to not make a big deal of it. Her safety and care is paramount and I would continue to help her and work with her as you already are. If not it will have a nasty way of getting back to her eventually which is likely to more damage in the long run, including to her confidence.

Just to add, it sounds like she has made a very worthwhile and helpful friend in you :)
 
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I see you ride freelance for a living: expain to her that you think that it might be better for her to pay you to ride this beasty twice a week [or more if she has any problem], preferably when she is there, she can tack up and wash down, so you are spending less of your valuable time. The problem with her being there is that she is going to see him having a hissy fit, and this may put her off entirely, but better that than she end up in A&E with a mega problem horse.
The long term benefit for you may be that this beasty could be a competiton horse for you, she may be happy to do this, you never know til you ask. If she decides to sell it, you can show it to potential buyers.
 
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misskk88 said:
Can I speak from the owners side having been in a similar situation... just to offer my two pence worth!

My horse was a school mistress who had winnings from show jumping. She was probably the easiest thing to jump on the yard and if I was away with work/on holiday I was quite happy for her to be used in the odd lesson with a more experienced rider, or for the staffs qualification assessments.

She always jumped a bigger/more difficult course with others and enjoyed it, whereas I was quite happy pottering around smaller courses, which she would happily trickle around- considering I had a real confidence knock with my jumping, she was perfect.

It was only WAYYYYY down the line that I found out that one girl had come off her after she got really excited, girl clung on, so horse put in a few leaps and a stop at a fence.

I am not the most confident of riders, but as it is was my horse, I felt that I should have had every right to know what situations had arisen, even if it was downplayed in order to save my confidence. The fact absolutely nothing was said, for me to find out only a few months down the line did make me loose faith in them a bit. The horse was very well known and not new to me or the yard (and I had no concerns she may have begun doing the same with me), but if she had been they could have left me in danger of potentially getting hurt.

I certainly think it is worth a chat with her, even if you skim over it briefly in order to not make a big deal of it. Her safety and care is paramount and I would continue to help her and work with her as you already are. If not it will have a nasty way of getting back to her eventually which is likely to more damage in the long run, including to her confidence.

Just to add, it sounds like she has made a very worthwhile and helpful friend in you :)
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But the incident you describe is down to rider problem not to horse, if I was to describe in detail every fall I had off a spooky horse I was breaking it would not be of benefit to either party, if I want to sell a horse, it is sold as it is today, not two years previously.
Your horse seems to suit you well, the fact that it put in a stop when the rider was linging on for dear life is irrelevant in my mind, better for rider safety that the horse had more common sense than the rider in this instance. Falls are part and parcel of riding a horse, I would have thought that was pretty obvious. A rider has to be competent enough to ride the horse at the level of her abilities, no one expects a complete beginner to ride over jumps [though I have seen some do this successfully at a Kids and Dads night], but the novice rider has to go beyond the beginner, and presents the horse at the fence. If she does this with no conviction or is hanging on for dear life, I think that many horses would stop, that does not mean it will stop when ridden in to a fence.
 
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I'd tell her but keep it breezy - something like. "We had a bit of fun today, he's got a bit of a buck on him hasn't he!"

If she asks for more info then give it to her straight. He had a spook and then put in a buck. It didn't bother you.

No need to play it up or down just give the facts. If she asks for more help as a result, great, if she doesn't that's her choice.

Hope it works out.
 
Thank you all for your advice. It's so silly really, with horse situations I can think my way out of, with their owners I over think and worry.

I have spoken to the horses owner, telling her that he spooked at a pigeon and put in a bit of a buck, kept it quite light as for her any mention of the 'B' word is worrying. She hasn't ridden him at that end of the school yet and probably won't now!

I have suggested she come out with me for a short hack once a week, I have a sensible horse that I could always put her on if he gets silly or even stick her on a rope. She has mentioned that she'd like me to ride him when she can't as I like him so much, so we will see how it goes for now.

I think as winter draws near, my involvement with him will increase. At the moment he is on about 12-14 hours turnout and is fed hifi and blue chip supplemented with a joint supplement and pink powder. I am very much hoping that by the time he is on less turnout and we have the spook inducing winds of autumn that she will at least have control of him on the ground.

I know that on paper this may not seem an ideal situation, a big moving ex competition horse as a first horse for a loose seated beginner, but with the right support and help to keep her the horse mentally and physically stimulated he may be a great school master that she can learn more on than she ever could on those dead behind eyes, kick and pull type riding school horses. And she has the horse now, so may as well work with him.

Fingers crossed
 
Different point of view.
Although you are experienced, your experience/style my not suit this horse, and although you may not have done anything intentionally you may have touched a nerve.
We used to own a TB that had done a lot of showing, he hated being held together in anyway. My daughter is a very anxious quite rider who did PC, dressage with him and he never ever lifted his feet off the floor, on paper she was totally over horsed. We had a sharer who was very tight in the arms and shoulders and she could never get the best out of him, I tried to explain she needed to be looser and there was not need to get him on the bit, he just did it. One day I was watching her ride him and with no warning he just stood in the corner of the school and did one massive buck and got her off, if I had not of seen it I would not have believed it. We found out from his old pro owner that if he disliked the ride judge he would not go but could be amazing when he wanted, he obviously preferred my daughter to someone who could really ride.
We also had a PC schoolmaster who did everything with his nose stuck out, very obedient and anyone could ride him, but try and get him to work and on the bit he would spook at his own shadow, if you dropped the contact as he started to spook he would stop.
By all means tell her he spooked and he caught you unawares and you fell off, but its unfair to give her a problem that for her may not be there. If you ride with more tension and got a hold of him it may have given a whole set of signals that she will never send out and the fact is he was sold on for a reason and may be just be completely sour by being made to do stuff. If she is happy and he is happy what's the harm.
 
By all means tell her he spooked and he caught you unawares and you fell off, but its unfair to give her a problem that for her may not be there. If you ride with more tension and got a hold of him it may have given a whole set of signals that she will never send out and the fact is he was sold on for a reason and may be just be completely sour by being made to do stuff. If she is happy and he is happy what's the harm.
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Thank you for your response. I didn't fall off.

I was just warming him up, in trot, on fairly loose rein I wasn't tense nor did I have hold of him, I wasn't asking any questions of him, he reacted to pigeon. If the owner had had the horse for a while, or she had done more than just creep around the school or this was out of character, I wouldn't have said anything to her and put it down to a 'moment' I certainly don't want to frighten her. But this horse does light up fairly quickly in hand and the lady in question is very inexperienced, she hasn't had him very long and if he reacts with her as he did with me, without a doubt she would have fallen off and that was my concern.
 
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