What sort of noseband is this?

glamourpuss said:
Waaaaaaaaahahahahahaha I love it when the 'horse needs to be schooled better' line gets trotted out.

I'm sure JillA could do a much better job than the Olympic medallist who has helped me school my young ex-racer & suggested that for him a grackle noseband was the best solution for fast work & jumping. [rolls eyes]
Click to expand...


It might help if you actually read what I wrote - I did NOT say that flash or grackles were in the same league as the one in the picture - they are so shaped to avoid the soft nasal tissue.
AND I did not say that I could do any better, but you do have to remember that there are a lot of horse owner and riders out there who use them as defaults because they don't know any better (and I do know national competition riders who use and abuse gadgets to get fast results in this money orientated world we live in).
Put away your prejudices and actually READ!
 
Landcruiser said:
Most of the western horses in the world are ridden without nosebands. None of the horses of the great horse nations, the mongolians, the native indians, none of them have or had their mouths tied shut. I'd say it's never necessary. Shoot me down in flames if you like, but you won't change my mind. To tie an animal's mouth tightly shut and then expect it to work in a relaxed way is a big ask. The fact that many horses DO work in a relaxed way wearing these things is a great credit to their good natures. A plain caveson doesn't do any harm (although apart from looks, I don't know if it does any good). But as for the rest of them....bah humbug!:devilish:
Click to expand...

a plain cavesson can potentially do more harm than any other bit as so many nerves run under the jaw line - my mare will head shake in a cavesson regardless of how loose
 
Hi all!
It is only really used in show jumping.
Understandable it would be banned or inappropriate for showing and dressage.
They supposedly act like a grackle but should be more effective and more comfortable, providing less centred pressure on one point of the nose (the cross point of a flash or grackle)
As with a drop or a flash, it is something that a horse might prefer but does not necessarily have a more specific purpose. It is the combination of a drop and a cavesson, ultimately it is LESS severe than a grackle.
They are known as X-nosebands by the company Silver Crown Saddlery and are really quite expensive!
Personally, I love them.
 
pennyturner said:
Most horse just don't need nosebands. I find it quite depressing how many are fitted with a flash just because there was one with the bridle, or everyone else does. For all that this could let you truss up your horses face like a christmas turkey, it would do the job quite well. It won't interfere with the bit or pinch the mouth. Much better than a flash.

God it's ugly, though.
Click to expand...

So agree with you there!

The current 'fashion' noseband here in NZ is the Mexican Grackle. Which to be honest I prefer to see rather than a flash. Many horses loath the feel of the flash strap where it crosses over the side of the nostril. I've removed it from several horses that were confirmed head shakers - they stopped doing so immediately.

Here in NZ we have 'Show Hunter' where the equipment rules are very strict - you're not allowed any noseband below the bit. Many people have discovered that they don't actually need a flash.
 
JillA said:
Looking at it again, I wonder if it exerts pressure on the soft nasal bones and accompanying tissue? That was surely the reason for the flash and grackle superseding the standard drop. I agree with pennyturner though - I use a small cavesson just to finish off the bridle, fitted very loosely. If a horse needs a gadget such as that, it needs reschooling more!
Click to expand...

No - the reason for the original invention of the flash was to remove the unsightly TWO nosebands you needed to use if your horse wore a standing martingale and needed a drop noseband

A correctly fitted drop sits quite high - at least two fingers width above the start of the actual boney nasal bone.

The original Flash looked like this
FlashNoseband.jpg


As always someone decided to find a way to make it more cheaply and came up with the loop in the cavesson noseband. They also fitted it to an unsuitable cavesson so that when fitted the cavesson tended to drop down in front.

Black BEastie - Any noseband apart from a basic cavesson is considered an artificial aid - to prevent the horse opening its mouth too wide so that it becomes uncontrollable.

JilA - I agree with you - If a horse needs such a drastic noseband it needs more time being schooled.

I've always broken mine the same way the Spanish Riding School do - in a Fulmer and drop noseband. The noseband fitted correctly allows the horse to relax its jaw but not to open its mouth wide. If it never learns to do so it should hopefully never develop the resistance.
 
Last edited:
Landcruiser said:
Most of the western horses in the world are ridden without nosebands. None of the horses of the great horse nations, the mongolians, the native indians, none of them have or had their mouths tied shut. I'd say it's never necessary. Shoot me down in flames if you like, but you won't change my mind. To tie an animal's mouth tightly shut and then expect it to work in a relaxed way is a big ask. The fact that many horses DO work in a relaxed way wearing these things is a great credit to their good natures. A plain caveson doesn't do any harm (although apart from looks, I don't know if it does any good). But as for the rest of them....bah humbug!:devilish:
Click to expand...

We were riding horses without any noseband, no matter how nasty they was. Only one horse wore martingale for a plain reason of getting head up and tanking off and we, girls, just physically couldnt manage it (big boys could). But we are talking years and years ago.
So returning to riding nowadays is quite... "...how many blissful revelations..."(c)
 
To be fair I don't think it looks so severe. It certainly looks like it puts no contact on the bit compared to a flash/ grackle that come in at any angle.
Seen a few show jumpers in them.
 
Landcruiser said:
Most of the western horses in the world are ridden without nosebands. None of the horses of the great horse nations, the mongolians, the native indians, none of them have or had their mouths tied shut. I'd say it's never necessary. Shoot me down in flames if you like, but you won't change my mind. To tie an animal's mouth tightly shut and then expect it to work in a relaxed way is a big ask. The fact that many horses DO work in a relaxed way wearing these things is a great credit to their good natures. A plain caveson doesn't do any harm (although apart from looks, I don't know if it does any good). But as for the rest of them....bah humbug!:devilish:
Click to expand...

This. Nosebands are never necessary, but it won't stop a large number of people claiming that there are situations where they are.
 
Art Nouveau said:
Here's an interesting article that I have come across
http://www.eurodressage.com/equestrian/2012/02/08/noseband-special-part-ii-purpose-noseband

If I have understood it correctly, it concludes that nosebands are helpful in teaching young horses how to accept the bit correctly and not gape their mouth open. Also that comparing dressage with western riding is unhelpful as western isn't ridden with the same bit contact that other disciplines have.
Click to expand...

interesting article and I agree about wanting to prevent young horse to avoid bit action by opening their mouth. About western riding, traditionally western riders do start the horse in a noseband (generally without a bit as the horse is ridden with reins on the special noseband that is called a bosal), then horse wears bosal+curb and then curb alone with no noseband for the finished bridle horse. The finished bridle horse is similar to a classically trained dressage horse (at least in French classical/De La Gueriniere type) in that he is ridden on a loose curb rein only. So the kind of contact is here dictated by type of bit and level of training.

Hopefully this link will work
http://www.dingosbreakfastclub.net/DingosBreakfastClub/BioMech/HistoryDressage/PassageLaG.gif

A horse with a soft jaw that accepts the contact shouldn't need a noseband, although I have nothing against keeping a well fitted cavesson for esthetic purposes. My horse goes well without but we need one for dressage competitions so she has one, fitted loosely. Although the dressage schoolmasters I ride during my lessons do not give when you do a half halt but set their jaw against you. My RI says I need to half halt with the seat instead, I think that's another level, am not there yet!
 
I've seen this noseband before and thought it was a 'comfort' version of a flash, although I think I'm wrong after reading this thread!

I'm not going to get involved on the noseband debate, have ridden mine with and without and I know what works for him :)
 
none of mine have a noseband, I am a hippy and prefer to see my horse's heads, so take off cavessons (also don't care for cleaning tack!). However, last summer I took a 17yo on loan. He came in a flash which I immediately took off. He hated being without a noseband-got very fussy in the contact. funnily enough he went very sweetly in an elasticated grackle I have that came with a bridle. He did need reschooling totally as was completely upside down, but as he was 17 and I only had him for 6 months I decided to just let him be and rode him in the noseband that he was happiest in.
 
glamourpuss said:
Waaaaaaaaahahahahahaha I love it when the 'horse needs to be schooled better' line gets trotted out.

I'm sure JillA could do a much better job than the Olympic medallist who has helped me school my young ex-racer & suggested that for him a grackle noseband was the best solution for fast work & jumping. [rolls eyes]
Click to expand...

Just because s/he's a professional, it doesn't make it right for the horse. I know many people who call themselves professionals - does that mean everything they do is gospel and the only way?

Sure, a tight noseband and martingale might make for an easier ride; but at whose expense?

I do hate that old 'but my riding instructor told me it's OK!' excuse. Done to death.
 
Last edited:
They are called double nosebands. They are new on the market. I've seen them used on showjumpers particularly. it acts as a flash/drop and apparently is supposed to stop pinching in the corners of the mouth.
 
Just to show my age:- I was taught that a noseband is merely for aesthetic purposes. This was before the current fashion for clamping jaws shut and selling every bridle with a flash.
Like others I think this noseband would interfere with airflow and the soft tissues of the nose, probably quite unpleasant.
 
cobgoblin said:
Just to show my age:- I was taught that a noseband is merely for aesthetic purposes. This was before the current fashion for clamping jaws shut and selling every bridle with a flash.
Like others I think this noseband would interfere with airflow and the soft tissues of the nose, probably quite unpleasant.
Click to expand...

No a noseband was originally to attach a standing martingale to and to try to save the horses jaw in event of a fall which is why we do them up tighter for hunting than you would normally .
 
Well - I was told that they were originally used to prevent cavalry horses' jaws being broken by clumsy farmhands/ town persons who had been pressed into the cavalry for the Napoleonic Wars!
 
On the new noseband ,I would think it will act like a mild version of the controller ( lever ) noseband .
Interesting, what will they think of next .
 
Burmilla said:
Well - I was told that they were originally used to prevent cavalry horses' jaws being broken by clumsy farmhands/ town persons who had been pressed into the cavalry for the Napoleonic Wars!
Click to expand...

I think you will find standing martingale type things have been in use for much longer than that .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top