What surfaces can barefoot horses work on?

cptrayes

cptrayes

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Barefoot threads nearly all end up with some people posting that their horses cannot go barefoot because of the surfaces they have to go over when they ride. I think we have pretty well managed to get the message across that no amount of roadwork is "too much" roadwork, but we are still having discussions about stones.

So, here are some pictures of the patch of stones that I walk my horses over on a regular basis to see if they need to come off the summer grass. If they do not walk from one side of this to the other without wincing, then in they come during the day.

I have had numerous horses barefoot, from a racing TB I took the race plates off, through a Spanish navicular horse with soles so thin his feet would bend with my fingers, to my Shire/IDx hunter, and all of them have passed this test. Some did it easily. Some were more difficult to get to that level. But they all did it.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7dg7oqXuY5o/T5lkqg6_l7I/AAAAAAAAA4w/60nHG-C6CtU/s1600/PICT0134.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-uoGhHXMaB2E/T5lktDsZeTI/AAAAAAAAA44/E8OJ_Mp7Gis/s1600/PICT0136.JPG


Anyone else got pix to show of what you ride on?
 
I keep my horses on a farm , the yard is like your pictures until you get to the road
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This helps me determine how they are doing on a daily basis :)
 
Wow! He's doing well for so soon out of shoes!!! (and just look at that growth ring deviation showing where the wrong stresses were going up the quarter line when he was shod)
 
Genuine question, coming from a person who has no experience in eventing a barefoot horse, when studs are needed, what then?
 
My Yard is very much like both of the above... just outside my boy's stable he has rough concrete... it was the fact that he sruggled to walk across these the other day that alerted me to a problem and he was kept in for 36 hours before being allowed out for two... he has since had 4 hours turnout a day and been fine but I am being carefull not to overdo it until I have sorted another solution.
 
Lady La La said:
Genuine question, coming from a person who has no experience in eventing a barefoot horse, when studs are needed, what then?
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I have heard it said that being barefoot increases grip and negates the need for studs.

As an aside, did you see the photo in CR from a BE event last weekend of the barefoot horse who had fallen over on the flat and was resistant to getting up :D Cheeky monkey!
 
Lady La La said:
Genuine question, coming from a person who has no experience in eventing a barefoot horse, when studs are needed, what then?
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I can only quote those that have done it and know what they're tlaking about - there is more grip in a barefoot than in a shod horse (on the whole, I do hear of horses who lose grip when barefoot but it seems to me there must be a reason) so there is less need for more grip. Also it could be argued that a horse's leg is much safer when not subjected to the massive torque that studs exert on the whole bony column and up into the body, but that is I guess an extreme view, and most of us have to find a compromise when it comes to doing the things we love with our horses, and the things they love!
 
She has been BF for 5 months now - those pics are at approx 3 month shoe-free.
She has been fab 99% of the time.
We've had the odd footy day on the stones due to the bizarre weather & grass fluctuations but otherwise so far so good.
Mag ox has helped her no end :D

I'll update my pics soon but so far we've gone from this:
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to this:
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BTW - she isn't the black horse in the first pic!
She's the bay in my sig :)
 
rhino said:
I have heard it said that being barefoot increases grip and negates the need for studs.
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I wouldn't agree with that on a cross country course, Rhino, I just don't think studs are as necessary as eventers believe. Hunters don't use them. A farrier has recently completed a PhD and come to the conclusion that studs are causing undue stress on the joints of horses. Farrier Moorman who posts on here thinks studs should be banned.


rhino said:
As an aside, did you see the photo in CR from a BE event last weekend of the barefoot horse who had fallen over on the flat and was resistant to getting up :D Cheeky monkey!
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I didn't see that picture. I wouldn't be surprised if everyone immediately blames barefoot and forgets the paralysed rider whose shod horse fell inside a show ring during a show class a couple of years ago at Staffs County.


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rhino said:
As an aside, did you see the photo in CR from a BE event last weekend of the barefoot horse who had fallen over on the flat and was resistant to getting up :D Cheeky monkey!
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I did indeed :)

cptrayes said:
If you are adamant that you need studs, you must shoe, BE does not allow the use of hoof boots.
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Would you want to run your horse xc in hoof boots? My late mare was barefoot for the entire time she was with me, we hunted, dressaged and jumped at local level, but having run her xc a few times in sticky conditions she never felt happy enough on her feet for me to ask her to step it up a gear and manage a competitive time, so event we did not.
 
cptrayes said:
I wouldn't agree with that Rhino, I just don't think studs are as necessary as eventers believe.
I didn't see that picture - why did the horse fall? I wouldn't be surprised if everyone immediately blames barefoot and forgets the paralysed rider whose shod horse fell inside a show ring a couple of years ago at Staffs County Show.
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It just slipped :) Nothing sinister. And no, I have never used studs for lower level eventing either, my boy is amazingly sure footed (even with shoes ;) ) No-one was blaming anyone, accidents happen.

Although I don't see why because hunters don't use them, eventers wouldn't need to - I think competing xc at the higher levels eventing is a completely different test to a day's hunting. :)
 
rhino said:
I think competing xc at the higher levels eventing is a completely different test to a day's hunting. :)
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Depends if you are trying to win the event and how big and fast you jump out hunting :D If I ever needed studs I needed them far more for the way I jump hunting than I ever did on a BE Novice course. Adrenaline junkie, out hunting, me :D
 
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cptrayes said:
Depends if you are trying to win the event and how big and fast you jump out hunting :D If I ever needed studs I needed them far more for the way I jump hunting than I ever did on a BE Novice course. Adrenaline junkie, out hunting, me :D
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Not really :D Even if you go round as slow as possible without being eliminated you'll still get more jumping efforts (and more technical complexes) than you would on an average 10 minutes hunting surely? It's not as much about height as most people seem to think, even at 4* eventing the maximum solid height of a fence is much smaller than some of the ginormous hedges you see the hunting folks fly over. It's about accuracy, controlling the pace, stopping and jumping with very little room for error as far as technicality goes - you can't make mistakes over many 4* fences and get away with it.

And I quite believe it, have seen the hedge photos. Sheer madness :eek: :D
 
This is what mine live on. Not very good pic as there are compacted areas and areas where big stones stick up, where the sub base has poked through, that don't move. Just what I had on pb.
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Areas we go on are mostly road and bog so easy really. Mine have it tougher at home.lol
 
The tracks around my yard are pretty much like yours...I ride on those, and the road and softer tracks/fields also.

Re traction.....I hack out often with friends whose horses are fully shod.....mine certainly have better grip- especially in mud/snow/tarmac etc.
 
Mines had her shoes off years now, farm driveway is similar to Cptrayes second picture, & we often hack down a lane that's full of stones & rubble, like the stuff used to fill pot holes but in big piles rather than tarmaced over, & broken bricks everywhere. She's fine on the gravel, prefers the grass at the side (as she did when shod) but can trot on the gravel no problems when she wants. The lane she does pick her way round the big piles of stones, rubble & bricks, but no more than she did shod, & every shod horse I know does the same. Also worth noting a 4wd has to be careful on the lane too & a normal car would die. So on the whole, no change to when shod.
 
rhino said:
I think there are a few running Advanced in the US with some success :)
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That's quite interesting. You would think that if it were as simple as unshod feet coping with advanced courses in muddy/slippy conditions just as well as shod feet with studs, that much more eventers would be running their horses without shoes :confused:

Well, I would anyway. I'm sure there must be more too it than that :p
 
On studs I used to use them when I started eventing only because everyone did,
As I did more I just stopped I noticed no difference on the young ones and I used one on the outside of my good mare when she did I 's and A's but honestly on good ground I really doult she needed them.
I have a grassed working area it drained and never grazed and is kept rolled and mown it is a secret weapon the horses are rarely in the school during the summer they are either hacking or working on the grass the jumps are out there
And it's great.( can't use at the mo unless it's for swinning lessons LOL ).
I believe we probally over stud horses and would be very interested to hear from people barefoot eventing .

I need to sort out this posting photos from my iPhone thing then I could show you the scary stoney down hill track my boy does.
 
cptrayes said:
Anyone else got pix to show of what you ride on?
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The drive to our yard is worse... Just taking the car down it requires 3mph and you still feel like your teeth will rattle out or something will fall off... :(

Most of them negotiate it fairly well - even the TB who's not long had his back shoes off... Loan horse who has spent the last five years roughing it outdoors without a shoe on acts like a total diva and minces her way over it where she has to, heading pdq (whether you want to or not :o ) to the odd little tiny strip of grass that goes up the sides and walks on that like it was a tightrope instead...:rolleyes:

Going to get Mr Farrier to take a good look at her next visit as I wouldn't have thought it would be such an issue for her...
 
rhino said:
Not really :D Even if you go round as slow as possible without being eliminated you'll still get more jumping efforts (and more technical complexes) than you would on an average 10 minutes hunting surely?

It's not as much about height as most people seem to think, even at 4* eventing the maximum solid height of a fence is much smaller than some of the ginormous hedges you see the hunting folks fly over. It's about accuracy, controlling the pace, stopping and jumping with very little room for error as far as technicality goes - you can't make mistakes over many 4* fences and get away with it.

And I quite believe it, have seen the hedge photos. Sheer madness :eek: :D
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We are just going to have to agree to disagree on the stud issue. All I can say is that up to Novice (which for the uninitiated contains fences up to nearly four feet high) I never found any difference in my horses whether I studded or not, except on a slippy dry dressage arena. I eventually came to the conclusion that for most riders they are a psychological prop.

As I said, lets disagree on this one, because it's an argument I have listened to many times and no-one has yet come up with anything new which makes me change my mind.

There has been an advanced barefoot horse in the UK, did you know? A "Millenium" horse ridden by Tom Robinson. They couldn't keep the horse sound in shoes so they were forced to run it without any.
 
Ladydragon said:
Going to get Mr Farrier to take a good look at her next visit as I wouldn't have thought it would be such an issue for her...
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Mr Farrier is unlikely to be able to help unless he's a gem that knows about disease and nutrition. It's rare to be able to take something off horses that mince and improve them with a trim. It might possibly be that he is taking something off that should be left and he can leave it, but since the others are OK it seems unlikely. If she was mine I would be testing her for Cushings and for Insulin Resistance, unless she is fat in which case I'd be getting the fat off pronto first.
 
Cptrayes , did you do novice with your horses barefoot .i have done novice and intermediate without studs but shod .iI sometimes used them in the dressage if the ground was hard but rarely for the jumping in novice.
 
Goldenstar said:
Cptrayes , did you do novice with your horses barefoot .i have done novice and intermediate without studs but shod .iI sometimes used them in the dressage if the ground was hard but rarely for the jumping in novice.
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Yes I evented two at Novice with no shoes and I only ever missed them in a dry hard dressage arena.
 
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