What The Heck Is Wrong ! ? !

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MaverickMD

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I really hope you can all help ! My Mare is 15hh, 13 years old, Show Cob.

She started to buck only in canter at the tail end of last year. In January she was seen by a Chiropractor who advised that she had "rotated her right pelvis" - this was treated there and then - you could see that her hips from behind were back level again. I was told to keep straight lines for a couple of weeks then ride away - which I did. But she did not stop bucking but she only did it in canter.

I had her saddle checked by a master saddler, her teeth checked, her feet checked - all OK. Chiropractor visited again - and said she was just being "a moo" and was having me on and to rider her through it.

I tried this - but she still bucked in canter - more on the right rein than the left - she also swished her tail at me. She even does it on the lunge - and pulls faces at me and tries to turn in at me. This mare had never bucked before and is a willing soul and has always been a poppet to lunge - just going round like a ticktock clock !

I had the vet out - he flexion tested her and lunged her and agreed that she was not lame in her lower limbs but she did not look a happy mare at all. We gave her one month on bute - to see if it was a learned issue or a pain issue.

The bucking stopped on bute. When she came off it - it started again - so we could be certain that it was a pain issue.

Looking at her - she looks closer behind in her hocks - when she was always very square and a very straight mover - hence the showing. She is looking croup high. Her right hoof seems slightly turned out when she puts it on the floor. And to me she has completely lost her big stride and now she bucks on both reins but only in the canter and she is not so willing to go forward and she feels "all lumpy" to ride, I cant sit to her canter properly and watching her on the lunge she - to me - looks "stabby" with her back legs rather than flowing. However she seems fine in walk and trot?

She will hack out fine - but I have now stopped riding her - as I am sure that there is something major wrong - and I certainly dont want to make it any worse !

As I say the vet is sure that she isnt lame in lower limb - but has now said that he is going to refer her to a equine hospital for further tests - which from where I live is a long way away.

Can anyone out there possibly tell me what the heck could be wrong with her - this has now gone on for 10 months and I am at a loss and the vet isnt saying much either !

Please help !

Many thanks MaverickMD
 
Has the vet done any nerve blocks in the hindlimb at all, would help rule out hock problems especially, either spavins or suspensory damage? could she be bilaterally lame hence why she doesn't look lame as such? If you nerve block one leg then the lameness becomes much more noticeable in the other leg. Other than that I would have had a guess at maybe sacroiliac problems but I guess the further tests at the hospital will show if this is a problem. If you are insured I'd go for the full works of investigation, then you can find out the problem, hopefully sort it and get back to enjoying your mare. How long have you tried not riding her for- you could see if rest has made any difference to the problem then if the problem returns then get it looked at by an expert at the hospital?
 
Hi,

My mare went from being an angel to bucking me off and no vet could tell me what was wrong. I got the homeopathy vet Chris Day out and he discovered her ovaries were causing her a lot of pain, she was certainly depressed and unhappy! He treated her and 6 months on she was a different horse. She went on to have a foal succesfully and the problem has never recurred.

It may be a similer issue with yours
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Hope you get it sorted anyway
 
Try different alternative practioners. I had a horse who reared and napped badly and found with him healing worked a treat. Bowen therapy works when McTimoney might not as that is muscle based. Definately agree with SJ-Sapphire about nerve blocks and as evetinggirl says, I have also seen mares with ovary problems cause bucking - although this is less likely to start off during the winter months (but not completely unheard off). If your mare is insured I'd be thinking about bone scans etc to get to the root cause of the problem as she is obviously not a happy girl.
 
i would definatley have her ovaries scanned could easiley be causing all this and will only get worse if it is this ,been through similar with mine and under vet atm and making quick recovery , good luck keep us informed
 
Thank you so much for your prompt replies.

I will take each in turn -

SJ_Sapphire - The vet is convinced it is not lower limb lamness and has not done nerve blocks - I suppose the thinking is - that she would show something under flexion and in all 3 paces - and she doesnt - she looks and behaves perfectly sound after severe flexion / trotting up etc. It only happens in canter ??? Sacroilac problems - this is looking more likely. But I am not sure what this involves? I have not really ridden properly for months - only light hacking - but have kept off her completely for a month now. She is insured and I agree that this may be the only way to get the answers.

Eventgirl - Ovary problems - During the time that she has had this problems she has also had 3 blood tests - each one getting more specific. None of them have shown up anything including Hormonal changes. The last time the vet looked at her was at the beginning of November - when he scanned her ovaries. Her left one was larger than the right - and showing cysts (as they would when in season) but the vet didnt think this was anything untoward. She has never "shown" seasons particularly and she has never been mareish when in season. Also, again - I suppose it was the thinking that she would be resentful of being ridden what ever pace - but she isnt, and that she would be worse at certain "times of the month" than others - but again, the bucking is consistent what ever time of the month it is. But I will certainly mention it to the hospital when she goes ! Just in case !!

Panda - Alternative Practioners - problem is where I am is very limited as to who is available and sometimes we have to wait an age for anyone to come - that is the problem of living off the beaten track. The last chiropractor was a McTimony practioner. I will look out / try and source a Bowen therapist - if I can.

Calon - Indeed, see my response above - but I will certainly make sure it is reviewed by the hospital - if and when we get there !

Thank you everyone. Please if any one else has any thoughts / similar experiences - I would love to hear - as at the mo I feel completely at a loss to what could be wrong.

MaverickMD
 
I would go for referral to a vet hospital if your own vet has no other suggestions. With an obscure problem like this early referral saves a lot of time and can actually save money, as if your vet starts blocking nerves/joints and still doesn't achieve a diagnosis this will all be redone at the hospital if they suspect a lameness issue, ditto radiographs.

To be honest it is difficult to make any more than a stab in the dark as to what is the cause - these symptoms could arise as a result of a variety of problems.

I would be cautious about relying on alternative therapies etc. unless this is on the advice of a vet following a conclusive diagnosis. With many conditions early diagnosis/treatment has a bearing on prognosis, and pain can turn even the nicest horse sour if they are continually being poked and prodded to no avail.

Hope you get to the bottom of this - I can imagine how distressing it must be.
 
Symptoms sound almost identical to my horse, who went from doing a very passable novice/elementary test to being unable to canter on the right rein almost overnight. He would curl up, hang onto the right rein, hump, swish his tail and generally evade me. However, in walk and trot, and cantering on a straight line on a hack he was absolutely fine. I went along the physio/chiropractor route first of all, but after several months he was no better. Eventually vet and physio visited together, and finally diagnosed him with kissing spines. I have posted several messages about this over the last year or so. His KS is just behind his wither and slightly on the right side of his spine, making bending right even more difficult. With the benefit of hindsight, and as suggested by others in earlier posts, I wish I had got the vet straight away. His is not curable by surgery, he had treatment with tildren which was not successful and he has now gone out on loan as a hack/pet.
 
same here kissing spines was my thought, as my horse does all these things that your saying and he didnt show any lameness at all, i cant ride my horse at all now and waiting to go to willersley for operation by dr svend kold.
when i lunge my horse his tail goes mad and he is turning in on me and swearing at me, when i was riding him he was bucking in canter only and just not at all forward.
send to hospital for proper investigation
 
Agree with the replies directly above Mav - sounds like a major skeletal problem, possibly from a fall in the field? The only way to get to the heart of this for once and for all is a robust work up at a top notch veterinary hospital. Is Girlie-o insured? Don't know where you live but my horse was referred to Ian Camm at Bushy Equine Hospital, Dursley, Gloc. Not advertising guys, just sharing helpful information. Ian Camm is one of the top lameness vets in the country. Good luck.
 
hi me again my mare was scanned june to see if in foal everything was ok then as with yours but no foal . she too is not at all mareish and dosent obect to being ridden by the way . things got worse with her end of sept she changed so much got her scanned again end of oct and she was very cystic looks like she hasnt ovulated since may ,so really do think it would be worth scanning again you wouldnt believe some of the behaviour this problem manifests in mares .my vet adised that blood tests to determine hormone probs were very expensive and inconclusive so we didnt go there ,he has treated her with a hormone to get her to ovulate twice now and she has and things are looking so much better and she has certainly been herself lateley .he is coming back monday for hopefully the last jab needed to shift the last folical then we hope her body will take over and function properley .i would never have thought she had this problem she seemed more like she was getting stress colic and maybe ulcers as she was the same all the time for weeks not on a monthley cycle if you know what i mean ,then i read something about cystic ovaries and realised what the problem was likely to be , hope you get to the bottom of your girls problem
 
You are all giving me such wonderful posts - and things to question / look into.

I have today received my referral to the hospital and as she is insured - off she will go - but it is not till Mid January 2008. In the first instance I think she has been referred for gamma scintigraphy (?)

Until then - I will stay off her and make a fuss of her as usual - I am sure she thinks she is in a 5 star health spar holiday camp at the mo !

If any one has any more suggestions / similar experiences - please do keep posting !

Many thanks to All

MaverickMD
 
Ditto Kissing Spines - very similar to my mares reactions to hers, but might be worth contact Dozzie's mum as she has had similar problems with sacroiliac problems.

Would definately get it checked. It was my physio that first suspected a more serious underlying problem as Honey would keep splinting through her back.
 
Hiya,

I know how frustrating this can be as my horse had similar symptoms and it took 11 months to reach a diagnosis.

He was reluctant to go forward, planting himself and bucking when asked to go in to canter and I mean really bucking but only in the school. Out hacking he was ok except that he couldn't pee!

Lunging he turned on me and kicked out, most out of character.

He had what looked like sacroileac issues, rigid back, muscle spasm etc but also had almost azotoria hints as well with tremors and flinching.

Well, he had x-rays and bone scans which i am afraid showed nothing although in desparation the vets suggested kissing spines despite no REAL strong evidence. I got him home and took advice on working him etc but all my contacts, instructors, osteopaths etc were a little sceptical as he didn't seem the type.

I looked up his symptoms as you do, on the web and found Beth Valentines site on EPSM. www.ruralheritage.com/vet_clinic/index.htm BINGO! I am not saying that your horse has this but....If you have to wait til Jan for the vet appointment then it may be worth looking in to this and trying a high oil, low starch diet. No harm and possible benefits.

I really do sympathise with you and hope you can get to the bottom of this soon.

Goodluck,

Sqip
 
Hi Sqippa

Thanks for your post - I have had a look at the website you mention - very interesting indeed - think I may mention EPSM to my vet and see what he says - will also mention it to the hospital in Janaury.

Thank you

MaverickMD
 
A big THANK YOU from myself and Freddie to Sqippa. I am still reading the link and to say the least, it is very informative reading which I feel everyone should be aware of. Pretty sure now (even without biopsy) that Freds bucks, any excuse for a spectacular spook, loss of muscle tone, hopping with one front and one back leg, lethargy ... is down to this. I did change his diet a couple of months ago which made quite a difference.

Have just ordered Coligone and hope to see an improvement.
 
It's good to hear things are going well!

Well hopefully with more awareness, more horses will be helped with diet change. I still can't believe what a difference it made for Barnaby and a damn site easier than the spinal process surgery we were considering as a last resort attempt to help him.

Bloody winter however does play havoc on him and since the cold snap and frost hit he has had a very soar bottom, fingers crossed I'll get his rugs right and it will only be short lived.

Sqip
 
Be aware that many vets do not know much about this so you may need to go armed with the info. I was very lucky that despite the referall vet at the equine hospital pooh-poohing my suggestion and dismissing it without any discussion, my actual vet was more open minded and willing to investigate. I think he actually quite enjoyed the challenge!

As I said, if the symptoms seem to fit then a diet change whilst you wait, can't do any harm.

Good luck.

Sqip
 
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