What the heck was he doing? What should I do!?

[Holly Hocks]

Holly Hocks what I meant by silly reasons was like "He might have ulcers", even though what he displayed wasn't even similar to symptoms of ulcers

Difficult to ride and bucking under rider can be a sign of ulcers. Not a silly reason at all.

 

[CassTheCob]

No but the thing is no one on here knows my horse or his situation etc and he is at an extremely low risk of ulcers.

 

[touchstone]

Well going by your cobs reaction, I'd be getting a second opinion on the fit. Using it if it is the cause of his behaviour will only end up causing costly problems down the line.
Of course you can completely ignore it and carry on, but I've been putting saddles on horses for a lot of years and had to fit plenty of horses, but I still value an experts opinion and I think it would be foolish to continue without having it checked.

 

[LittleRooketRider]

Touchstone, all those reviews where from people with flat backed and very low/high withered horses, and luckily my cob is just in between!

And how have you deduced that, what measurements have you taken to judge thsi? A good saddler will measure up your horse and from taht choose/advise upon a saddle and make necessary adjustments so that it is personalised to your horse's shape. and requirements

 

[Hedgewitch13]

No nobody does know your horse or his situation but you are still asking for help with him... People are trying to suggest what might be the issue but you don't seem to be listening. The most important thing is to get that saddle fit checked. It may cost to do so but you can't skimp on these kind of things as it's a downwards spiral. If that saddle doesn't fit things are just going to get worse for you and him.
So if you do nothing else please, please get the fit checked!

 

[CassTheCob]

Can't remember if I've stated this already but I'm not going to ride him in that saddle again until I'm sure it's okay. I'm going to lunge him in it everyday for maybe a week or so and see if anything shows up with that, and start adding weight to see if it's how the saddle distributes weight that's the problem.

 

[Firefly9410]

Luckily the new saddle has s changeable gullet so we wont be forking out on a new one!
(This is what the new saddle is: http://www.fasttackdirect.co.uk/product-2-17-188/SHIRES_Hilite_Elite_Club_GP_synthetic_Saddle.html)

That saddle is not a changeable gullet saddle. It has a fixed gullet either standard or wide. There are hinged points which allow a little extra freedom of movement for the shoulder but the main part of the gullet itself does not adjust to the horse like they suggest. I have got one and if it fits it is fine but if it does not fit the hinged points will not make it fit. If it is a size too small in width I can see how the extra flexibility of the hinged points might let you get away with it for a few weeks before the horse starts complaining. Or maybe if you only ride once a week for half hour you might get away with it all summer when the horse puts on a few pounds until winter comes round again. Or get away with it on the lunge when there is no riders weight in the saddle. I think describing it as self adjusting is misleading of the manufacturers, the only bit that adjusts is the bit in the point pockets.

The first thing I would try with sorting out this horses problems is a different saddle. Even if you borrowed a few friends saddles which look to fit and just rode in them for 5min, if yours is the only one he reacts to then you have your answer. Of course he could react to all of them if none fit that well or if there is another problem, but it could be an intetesting experiment.

 

[touchstone]

I think this saddle is pretty renowned by some users for causing pressure points I'm afraid; they are cheap saddles that can cause expensive problems. If I were you I'd focus on getting the saddle professionally fitted; second hand but better quality saddles can be reasonably priced if cost is an issue - I know there can still be problems, but on the whole you stand a better chance of having a comfortable horse.

 

[jokadoka]

green horse hasnt been ridden for 5 months? Just having a bit of a buck. Nothing to worry about.
I just love the way this forum goes over board wit ulcers, saddle fit etc. its like saying a sore throat is cancer. It is sometimes but it usually isnt.

^^^^^^^
This!!!

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I've not read any of the replies but my first thought was - young horse, not been ridden in 5 months has a bit of fun! He'll get over it in a day or 2!

I would suggest doing your girth up gently and gradually though as I know from experience this is usually the bit that they don't like after time off not the actual weight on their back situation!

 

[SpringArising]

Crikey, if I got the vet out every time my youngster used to buck I'd have been living on the streets!

He sometimes bucked from start to finish non-stop by the gate because he was trying to get back to his field. No surprise that after he realised I wasn't getting off he stopped doing it.

I do think some people like to over-analyse sometimes. If I looked at everything my horses have done over the years with the view that it's an ulcer or a bad back, I'd have shares in my local vet practice.

Horses do weird stuff, sometimes for completely innocent reasons. I think that it's important to know when to call the vet and when to sort things out for yourself.

The horse is young, and hadn't been ridden for five months - it's completely normal for him to have a bit of a buck. It probably felt strange for him to have someone on his back again.

And re. saddle fitters - I don't place much trust in them. It seems to be a matter of opinion whether a saddle fits or not. I've had one saddler tell me something fits properly, and another tell me that the same saddle doesn't fit at all!

 

[blitznbobs]

My horse had a buck today too... She had the Physio 10 days ago, has her saddle checked every 3 months but she's a baby what with doing grass she pushes the boundaries - like any teenager.. However giving up and getting off when a horse when it mucks about is teaching it that this behaviour is ok...

 

[Leo Walker]

Those saddles are terrible! Cheap and nasty and the hinged bit can cause a lot of problems. The money you paid for that would almost have gotten you a second hand Thorowgood. They arent always the most comfortable for the rider, but they do usually fit the horse pretty well and can be adjusted easily by saddlers with different gullet and some flocking in or out.

I know none of us were there, but it does sound like something was bothering and hurting him. It may well have been the weight of the rider making the saddle pinch him, much more likely with that particular saddle due to the ridiculous hinged bit. So the first thing to do is sort out a saddle and then a back check in case he has any muscle pain. Then if hes fine, you can bring him slowly back into work and then tell him to man up and ride him through it. But you cant do that without knowing everything else is ok first and giving him and you the opportunity to suceed

 

[ester]

I would certainly agree that any youngster after time off could have the odd buck and he could still just being an idiot. But I'd want to be happy that he had a saddle that fitted first given how it has been acquired. OP if you know it isn't ulcers, that your saddle is great etc I am not sure what/why you are asking on here.

 

[littleshetland]

Hello everyone, today I rode my 6 year old green cob gelding for the first time in 5 months today (had to sell his old saddle for a better fitting one and we we're left tack-less for a while). He was absolutely fine when I was tacking him up etc, when I got there he cantered up to me, had his Haynet when I was grooming him, was absolutely fine with me putting his saddle and bridle on, once I got on him, I just had him stand still for a minute or two whilst I just let him know it was okay and just let the fact I was riding him again sink in. So I asked him to walk on, and he did and he was fine for about 5 steps, when he did a strange mini bucking type thing and got quite strong as if he was going to trot a few times. A friend was filming, and when I watched it back he was swishing his tail, then picking up one of his hind legs quite high as if he was kicking a fly on his stomach (looked like he was trying to buck but couldnt because he was only walking...?). Eventually he double barrelled me so I just got off. All we were doing was walking in a circle. He basically was acting as if he just thought "Nah, I can't be bothered with this, why should I listen to what she wants me to do? I'll just muck about then!". All his tack fits fine, I don't think it's a back problem as he's been quite happy galloping around the paddocks, bucking almost vertically, been rolling and stretching just fine. When I was riding him regularly last year he did the occasional buck in canter, and then maybe a couple in trot or walk if he was a bit fizzy but very rarely. It can't be because I'm to heavy for him, he's a 13.1hh heavy weight cob and I'm only about 6stone. Don't think it's string halt as he's never ever done this before and he was fine once I'd untacked him and put him in the paddocks again. What does everyone else think? What should I do? I was just going to tack him up and lunge him tomorrow, see how he is. Does anyone else have any experience with something like this? Was he just being silly? Thanks!

You kind of answered your own question really by stating he feels like he can't be bothered and is being naughty....perhaps just try riding him through it?

 

[ridefast]

It sounds like your saddle doesn't fit. Lunging him in the saddle won't make it fit. Get a saddle fitter out. Get a vet recommended physio out. When you've ruled out pain then you can start down the behavioural route

 

[smellsofhorse]

In think you need to take him back to the beginning.
Lunge him, long rein him and get him used to having a saddle on again!
Then take his slowly with fun hacks with a confident older horse.
Audi unsure saddle is fitted correctly and get a chiropractor to take a look as a routine check.
He basically had a nice time off and thinks you getting in him again means work and he is being awkward and trying to get you to get off!

 

[CassTheCob]

I think it was my fault for rushing it and giving him such an abrupt ending to his break. I'll dig out the roller and side reins and lunge him every day for a week or so!

 

[ridefast]

If the backing process has been done right and everything fits there's no reason for a horse to object. Horses don't think like us. Lunging in side reins won't help.

 

[JFTDWS]

I'm sorry OP you sound totally out of your depth and with rather poor help. I'd suggest you join Pony Club or Riding Club to get access to instructors who can help and to get information on who are the decent saddle fitters / back people / instructors in your area.

You've taken a green horse, given it five months off, self-fitted a saddle, just hopped on, met some resistance and given up. That's really not doing your horse any favours

It might help people trying to help you if you put the video up, but my guess is it's that old adage 'green on green makes black and blue.'

Agreed. With bells on.

2. I didn't just "give him a five month break", as I said in my origional post we literally couldn't do ridden work for that period of time because his ill-fitting saddle (that we didn't actually keep for very long for obvious reasons) sold before we got a new one

Last time I had no tack, I kept mine fit bareback and doing in hand work...

That said, my now 5 year old had 4 months off at the end of last year due to complex circumstances. I wouldn't expect him to behave poorly when I got back on, other than youthful exuberance and lack of fitness, nor would I expect to re-start him. But it does depend on how he's been backed and trained, as well as his nature.

Obviously before buying a saddle, doing a lot of research on the saddle, and reading reviews made by other people is the sensible thing to do as you can only be to careful when buying a saddle, so I did just that, and a lot of the reviews I read where by people with cobs or chunky natives, and the vast majority of what they'd said was positive. Most saddles these days have a cut back head anyway

Not all cobs and natives are created equal. You honestly cannot presume that a saddle which fits a similar type of horse will fit yours. It's like saying "you come from the same town as me, your clothes will fit me". In other words - the logic is absurd. It really needs to be checked by somebody who really knows what they're talking about - a fitter.

Or better yet, in the case of these saddles, burnt, and a new one bought.

No but the thing is no one on here knows my horse or his situation etc and he is at an extremely low risk of ulcers.

Why ask, then?

 

[CassTheCob]

As people have explained before on this thread it would be a bit of a shock for any horse to be just tacked up and jumped on after five months of basically nothing. Especially with my cob as he was sold as a 3 year old, but then the dentist came and told us he was at least six, which means he started being backed quite late, and before I bought him he was basically wild, so he's come far in a short amount of time, which probably contributed to him being a bit off yesterday.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I think it was my fault for rushing it and giving him such an abrupt ending to his break. I'll dig out the roller and side reins and lunge him every day for a week or so!

Lunging in a saddle that does not fit is not going to help! Looking at that saddle I wouldnt think it would fit many horses properly its a cheap rubbish saddle I wouldnt put that near any of my horses backs, I would buy something better and get it fitted properly.

 

[CassTheCob]

Pinkvboots- if you read my comment properly you'd see I said roller, not saddle.

 

[ester]

OP lungeing daily is pretty hard work for an unfit pony, can you long rein instead?

 

[Pinkvboots]

Pinkvboots- if you read my comment properly you'd see I said roller, not saddle.

Its still pointless doing anything if the saddle does not fit! And I am sure this is the issue here.

 

[Boulty]

I would suggest as he's never had a physio, chiro or anyone else look at his back in the time you've had him that would be first port of call. If he's been doing a lot of changing shape combined with having been ridden in a saddle you admit was less than ideal then odds on he will have some tight spots. I also really would advise finding a good local saddler through word of mouth and getting them to check your saddle. Even if it's a good basic fit it's likely to needs some altering of the flocking to get the ideal. If all this comes back as clear then at the end of the day he's a young horse who's had a lot of time off and perhaps needs things taking at a slower pace again for a few weeks (ie lunging and longreining in full tack for example) to get used to the idea of working again and also to start building some muscle again. Also worth bearing in mind that a lot of horses revert to stroppy teenager mode at around about his age and start testing the boundaries.

Oh and as an aside it is perfectly possible for a horse to do a VERY impressive buck from walk. My welsh D has educated me in this matter when he decided my riding was peeing him off. I think staying on was only marginally less painful on that occasion than hitting the deck (my back did not thank me for it!)

 

[Auslander]

I kind of agree that young horses will sometimes have a buck just because they can, but the OP's description to me sounded like resentment, rather than high spirits. I'd also be looking more closely at the saddle fit - and I am not noted for my close relationship with my saddle fitter. I usually fit them myself, but have no hesitation in getting a saddler out if I feel the horse isn't happy. Horses a re funny beings - I have one saddle that fits Alf well,and he hates it. My old dressage saddle slips back like mad if I don't anchor it with a breast girth - but he much prefers it. I suppose what I am saying is that there are many variables when it comes to saddles, and a saddle that ticks all the "correct fitting" boxes, is not necessarily right for the individual horse. Incidentally, I'd always rather have a well made, good quality older saddle than a cheap new one.
It's difficult to say without seeing the horse, but I'd put money on it being a combination of nappiness and not being 100% comfortable in the saddle. If you were one of my clients, I'd be recommending that you got a saddler out to look at the saddle fit, tried the horse in some other saddles, supplied by said fitter. If there was no distinct improvement in the horse in a professionally fitted saddle, I'd speak to the vet and get a referral to a physio, and if it was the saddle, I'd get that sorted, then go down the physio route to make sure that the horse started his ridden career in the best possible shape. Once any physical issues had been ruled out - I'd get an experienced rider on the horse to ride through the resistance. He could well just be swinging the lead, but I think its only fair to rule out discomfort before having a "Come to Jesus" discussion with him.