:( What the hell was that? Horse attacked other horse hacking

is he in pain? my gelding took a dislike to a couple of grey geldings once, so wonder if he's had a bad experience with them! so for a long time I only hacked him where he could be behind other horses! he's recently started hacking in bigger groups again and has been totally fine! even with a grey mare! but I have worked out it all steamed from a traumatic experience the first time he was hacked in a group of 3, and the horse behind him got scared by a tractor and bolted passed him and after that day he was really worried about things behind him, for a long time! I also discovered he was dealing with ulcers and once they were treated he was like a new horse!
 
poiuytrewq said:
I did suggset pain but fiend just pointed out wouldnt he just fire me or run off or something rather than go out of his way to attack
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Pain is still a factor.

This could be displacement aggression, i.e. he can’t take his frustration/agitation/etc out on the pain itself or whatever stimulus might be triggering the behaviour, so he’s taking it out on the thing that’s most accessible - the other horse.
 
poiuytrewq said:
His ears don't even go back, no faces, no warning.
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That's not normal. My pony (mare) took a dislike to a random gelding, and reversed at him to give him a battering - we didn't get close enough, but she meant it. But her ears were back, nostrils wrinkled and a proper death stare on her face. She didn't rush over all cheerful and give him a good leathering!

I'd be concerned that the aggressive behaviour might escalate to include the ponies, any dogs that are around and possibly humans too.
 
There could be lots of reasons but essentially it’s not for you to investigate, you’ve shown it wasn’t a one off and if he’s not doing any prior signs you can’t really manage it. Return and make sure the owners know exactly how bad it has been.
 
A slightly different scenario but many, many years ago we had a horse who had been very sweet and even tempered for years but out of the blue started attacking others in the field, kicking, biting and chasing them. This was prior to the general availability of lots of diagnostics but my vet the most likely cause was something like a brain tumour. In this scenario I would be returning the horse to the owner and hoping they took the situation seriously.
 
Fluffypiglet said:
If this is completely new behaviour then I would suggest it’s illness related unfortunately. Random question though - were both horses your horse attacked the same colour? Only because my old pony (13.2 chestnut mare w. attitude) hated grey ponies (darker grey only, lighter grey/white did not give the same reaction) She very much wanted to kill the other pony and was stopped by a RI shouting at her (and me!) and I was big enough to stop her but we had to be very careful about bringing in the same area and I have no doubt she would have been double barrelling if grey had been behind instead of in front. That said, this was a stroppy mare not a usually quiet gelding. You have my sympathy as that’s a very difficult situation to be in.
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Oddly enough I had a mare that would "stalk" grey horses at a show. I had to be careful to keep her well out of the way of grey horses as she wanted to get closer and closer in order to kick them! She would kick other horses too, if they got to close. Although she was great to ride, it was a bit of strain in company ...

As for the OP horse, there might be a history to explain it - maybe he got attacked once and it getting in early. But still it is not acceptable behaviour and as it is in an older horse then it might well be health/illness related. Behaviour can and does change and I have known more than one horse sadly PTS after a change in character and behaviour, and yes it turned out to be a brain tumour.
 
I'm curious what happens if one of the ponies or something moves behind him when he doesn't have a rider up?

Wondering if it's some sort of sight issue?

It's a strange one for sure and I don't think he can be trusted in company any more.
 
meandmyself said:
I'm curious what happens if one of the ponies or something moves behind him when he doesn't have a rider up?

Wondering if it's some sort of sight issue?

It's a strange one for sure and I don't think he can be trusted in company any more.
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Absolutely nothing.
And neither time has the other horse even been behind him.
 
So it only happens under saddle/with a rider on?

This is gito sounds bonkers but is there any chance you're pregnant? My boy got really defensive of me when I was expecting and did snakey neck to other horses if they got close.

I'd also wonder about pain or if he's been punished for reacting to another horse in the past and is now expecting it to happen again for some reason?
 
meandmyself said:
So it only happens under saddle/with a rider on?

This is gito sounds bonkers but is there any chance you're pregnant? My boy got really defensive of me when I was expecting and did snakey neck to other horses if they got close.

I'd also wonder about pain or if he's been punished for reacting to another horse in the past and is now expecting it to happen again for some reason?
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Its a random out of the blue things that happens rarely so its unlikely to be any of that. Hes also not showing any normal horse signs or behaviours before or after. Whatever it is, its not something you'd get in the spectrum of normal horse behaviour.

OP you are doing 100% the right thing sending him back. I hope the owners take it seriously.
 
ester said:
There could be lots of reasons but essentially it’s not for you to investigate, you’ve shown it wasn’t a one off and if he’s not doing any prior signs you can’t really manage it. Return and make sure the owners know exactly how bad it has been.
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Exactly this, he might never do it again, but now you could never have the confidence that he wouldn’t.
You’ve described extremes of contrasting behaviour exhibited, whether pain related or not.
This is not your horse, please do not allow it to become your problem, or on your conscience if it all goes south again.
 
I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt if he’s never done this before and got to be 16 and ok with other horses. Something must have triggered it and I would be very careful but it could well not happen again.
 
I had a horse become agressive with others whilst ridden, not to this extent though and I fully understand your concern. It wasn’t pleasant and it was out of character for a normally very calm and laid back horse. In the end it was triggered by pain. There was no lameness involved and it wasn’t obvious but once the issue was addressed, the aggressiveness stopped.
 
bonny said:
I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt
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If this horse kills a kiddie on its pony out hacking because it was given the benefit of the doubt…

We all love horses but why do some people put themselves and others in such stupidly dangerous situations just because they look cute in the field.

No horse is worth someone else’s safety!
 
IrishMilo said:
If this horse kills a kiddie on its pony out hacking because it was given the benefit of the doubt…

We all love horses but why do some people put themselves and others in such stupidly dangerous situations just because they look cute in the field.

No horse is worth someone else’s safety!
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This. I've had a horse with behavioural issues PTS some time ago. It's not worth risking life and limb nor someone elses life. It was a horse I'd bought and the previous owners should have PTS rather than advertise and sell it on.
 
I'd also send him back.

Unfortunatly the horse is now a liability. To you, to other horse and to any humans who may get in his way.

As stated further up thread, your 3rd party liability insurance will be void now, especially as it has happened more than one and you have posted here.
My 3rd party was cancelled for a mare who was on loan to me that tried to attack a person in the field. They didn't exclude just people in the field, they cancelled the 3rd party portion.
This would mean that if he got out you would be liable for all damages caused by him.
 
bonny said:
I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt if he’s never done this before and got to be 16 and ok with other horses. Something must have triggered it and I would be very careful but it could well not happen again.
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It's happened twice in a matter of weeks. It's highly likely to happen again.

OP, I am so sorry you lost your big grey and are now dealing with this. You are doing the right thing sending him back and I hope the owners take it very seriously.
 
bonny said:
I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt if he’s never done this before and got to be 16 and ok with other horses. Something must have triggered it and I would be very careful but it could well not happen again.
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I'd love to hear your explanation of how you can very carefully prevent a horse from running backwards into another and kicking the shit out of it with no warning.

He's already had the benefit of the doubt once. Next time he might kill someone.
.
 
The horse is 16 and well known by the OP and the owner and this sounds completely out of character. He might never do it again, he might which is why anyone dealing with him needs to be careful but all horses are capable of causing harm and shouldn’t ever be completely trusted.
 
meandmyself said:
So it only happens under saddle/with a rider on?

This is gito sounds bonkers but is there any chance you're pregnant? My boy got really defensive of me when I was expecting and did snakey neck to other horses if they got close.

I'd also wonder about pain or if he's been punished for reacting to another horse in the past and is now expecting it to happen again for some reason?
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Tbh, if the OP were pregnant, an equine terrorist is the last thing she’d need.
It doesn’t make much difference whether this horse is reacting to pain now, has a memory of pain, has defective eyesight, PTSD or any damn thing else - sadly, he is currently a dangerous liability - for whatever reason.
If his owner wants to have him examined, blood tested, xrayed, scanned, biopsied, analysed by a behaviourist, saddle fitter, equine dentist, re schooled, or whatever - that is up to the owner, but not the OP (who has had enough misery with recent losses, anyway).
He isn’t being defensive or snakey, this horse is actively attacking.
This is highly unusual, serious red flag stuff, it’s not behaviour to be ‘wondered’ about or pondered over, but requires a decisive response before real damage occurs.
 
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