What the hell?

[poiuytrewq]

Call me stupid, maybe I have my head in the clouds.

Is anyone aware of how you buy a puppy in the states?
I just read a thing on fb, someone who has a puppy that they want to crate but it’s claustrophobic, due to the fact it’s spent it’s last month in a small plastic box with one window in a puppy store.
A shop that sells random puppies, where do they source these poor little dogs.
A quick google found this place but there’s hundreds/thousands.
How utterly heart breaking.
I thought the US were an animal loving country with standards.
Maybe I’m being ott but the idea of little Cecil or Basil in a shop is just awful.
https://www.thepuppycorner.com/copy-of-available-puppies

 

[poiuytrewq]

Finance available, take one home today ?

 

[CorvusCorax]

While I agree it's deplorable, the USA is a very big place and this is not 'how you buy a puppy in the states' across the board.

There's similar or worse going on in the UK, only it's tiny cages in dark cattle sheds instead of shop windows. Then they get sold out of car boots or fake 'family homes'.

 

[Birker2020]

Call me stupid, maybe I have my head in the clouds.

Is anyone aware of how you buy a puppy in the states?
I just read a thing on fb, someone who has a puppy that they want to crate but it’s claustrophobic, due to the fact it’s spent it’s last month in a small plastic box with one window in a puppy store.
A shop that sells random puppies, where do they source these poor little dogs.
A quick google found this place but there’s hundreds/thousands.
How utterly heart breaking.
I thought the US were an animal loving country with standards.
Maybe I’m being ott but the idea of little Cecil or Basil in a shop is just awful.
https://www.thepuppycorner.com/copy-of-available-puppies

what the hell is a Beaglier??

 

[BallyRoanBaubles]

what the hell is a Beaglier??

Beagle x cavalier?

 

[Odyssey]

Oh no, that's utterly horrific! ? Almost definitely sourced from puppy farms too, I imagine. Do all the buyers of the poor puppies think that it's acceptable to keep them like that? The animal welfare standards in the USA are a lot lower than ours, sadly, though ours are obviously far from great for many poor animals. For example, I read that racing greyhounds live in stacked crates, barely large enough for them to turn around in, instead of kennels there. ?

 

[poiuytrewq]

While I agree it's deplorable, the USA is a very big place and this is not 'how you buy a puppy in the states' across the board.

There's similar or worse going on in the UK, only it's tiny cages in dark cattle sheds instead of shop windows. Then they get sold out of car boots or fake 'family homes'.

No I guess it’s not how everyone does it. I was just so blown away and angry.

 

[laura_nash]

I thought the US were an animal loving country with standards.

I'm very curious as to why you thought that. Maybe you missed all the fuss about "chlorinated chicken" around brexit..

The US are very big on "freedom" which apparently includes the freedom to treat animals (especially farm animals) however you like.

 

[CorvusCorax]

No I guess it’s not how everyone does it. I was just so blown away and angry.

It's definitely not how everyone does it. The USA is about 40x bigger than the UK, Texas and California individually are bigger AFAIK, so there is room for a lot of different ways to purchase pet animals. Welfare law also varies by state.

I don't particularly like how you can go into a brightly lit, noisy pet shop with your dog and gawp at rabbits/hamsters/rats/mice/piggies either.

 

[poiuytrewq]

I'm very curious as to why you thought that. Maybe you missed all the fuss about "chlorinated chicken" around brexit..

The US are very big on "freedom" which apparently includes the freedom to treat animals (especially farm animals) however you like.

Don’t we chlorinate chicken here? ?‍
I was thinking more pets than food I think.
I guess i figured they seemed a general dog loving nation like the UK (although very good points made above sadly )
As I said head in the clouds maybe.

 

[poiuytrewq]

It's definitely not how everyone does it. The USA is about 40x bigger than the UK, Texas and California individually are bigger AFAIK, so there is room for a lot of different ways to purchase pet animals. Welfare law also varies by state.

I don't particularly like how you can go into a brightly lit, noisy pet shop with your dog and gawp at rabbits/hamsters/rats/mice/piggiess either.

No, your right.

 

[CorvusCorax]

No, your right.

Doesn't stop it being awful/upsetting though

 

[rabatsa]

Weilerdane anyone?

 

[CorvusCorax]

Weilerdane anyone?

Or, 'Hipselbowscruciates' to give them their full term.

 

[P3LH]

From friends/family over there, I know that it’s thankfully not as commonplace/prevalent as it was say even ten/fifteen years ago over there. It wasn’t that long ago where it was very common in most places to have pet shops full of pups, and the norms to buy from them. There was a huge surge in the early 2000’s when the handbag dog trend took off, and certain celebs bought from and endorsed certain chains.

 

[ester]

There's certainly uk websites for puppies that look very similar.

 

[laura_nash]

Don’t we chlorinate chicken here? ?‍

No, we don't.

The US have to wash their chicken carcasses in disinfectant because of the terrible, cramped and unhygienic conditions the chickens live in. In the EU (and UK for now) this is banned, not because it is unsafe for consumers but because it covers up poor hygiene on the farm and enables terrible welfare.

ETA: Last time I checked, the US had no laws (state level or federal) covering the welfare of non-laying chickens. Not even basic "don't torture them or starve them to death" laws.

 

[millikins]

I can remember both puppies and kittens being sold in pet shops in this country, we're only a few years ahead. Now though of course we have Preloved, is that really much better?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I have no idea how and why this is allowed anywhere. I remember there being a store like this in a shopping mall in America many (20?) years ago. It's been closed for at least 15 years now. It was terrible. Walking by and hearing all the dogs. Some just in their cage looking depressed. I know someone who bought a small dog from one and had a heck of a time with training it to wee outside and a few other training issues.

I don't quite remember the acquisition of our first Lab, but it was from a Lab breeder. Our second was from a Lab breeder who bred her well-bred and well loved bitch and had her and the pups in the house and outside with her. Best dog I've ever had. Lived to age 12 and was just born trained. Fortunately my parents did not support these "pet shops" with live animals.

So it can go either way in America. There are all sorts. I don't think a big aspect of American freedom is having the freedom to treat your animals as you choose, I think it's just that animal welfare hasn't been talked about, enforced, or regulated much in many areas and people are often, totally ignorant of an animal being a living being. It's so sad.

Where I lived in America, people were quite dog friendly and welfare driven. Lots of great places to walk dogs, meet up for play, and stores that sold good quality food and products. We also had a mid day dog walker for workdays. So it isn't bad everywhere.

We've always bought dogs to be active with us. Another member to include in our active and outdoor lifestyle. Some people buy them as accessories or a statement. Which is wrong, IMO.

Germany is better about dog stuff, and when I was looking around for dog, I ran across mostly decent breeders. Still some just in it for the money and nothing else, but good ones are out there.

 

[TPO]

I can remember both puppies and kittens being sold in pet shops in this country, we're only a few years ahead. Now though of course we have Preloved, is that really much better?

My great uncle had a pet shop in the town centre and sold puppies (& kittens) that were displayed/had their pen in the windows. That would have been the late 80s/early 90s

 

[deb_l222]

There are equally as bad puppy farm conditions here in the UK, if not worse. Until the public appetite for cute little puppies of unknown parentage diminishes, there will always be room for the ‘greeders’ to thrive.

The only difference with the UK is, puppies can no longer be sold in shops like a loaf of bread.

 

[ponyparty]

I remember being horrified at seeing a Boxer puppy in a tiny, bright fluorescent-lit glass cage in an animal feed store in the Valencia region in Spain, probably about 15 years ago. I think they still do this over there now (along with all sorts of other horrible things). Yes, we do have issues in this country, but we do at least have legislation that attempts to minimise this sort of cruelty. Puppy farms are illegal, are they not? Unfortunately the criminally minded don't seem to care much whether something's illegal or not.

 

[ester]

Not illegal if they have a licence which can account for the not truly terrible but still not great but with a fancy website ones.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Legislation is legislation, until there is a real deterrent, better education of the public and there are more incentives for better breeding/smarter purchasing, we can't say we are so much better than other countries.

Cantering Carrot mentioned Germany. Any time anyone mentions measures that they have in place to encourage better breeding and purchasing methods, people say 'oh no, we can't do that here, it's too hard', when what they actually mean is that it will cost more/mean less profit when selling a litter of puppies.

'At least other countries are worse than we are' doesn't mitigate anything, for me. /rant.

 

[Books'n'dogs]

I know the state I live in, and I believe a lot of other states have as well, passed laws banning the sale of live animals in pet shops but sadly the puppy mill industry continues to thrive thanks to online sales. The Amish communities are notorious for their puppy mills and the treatment of pretty much all their other animals, I hope they aren't all animal abusers but my brothers are extremely enthusiastic birders and are frequently in Amish territory, the tales they tell of what they have witnessed make my blood boil. Of course the Amish aren't the only culprits, I've known people of all walks of life who treat their animals in an inconsiderate if not abusive manner, but I do believe they are greatly in the minority here. At least the majority of pet owners I know consider them to be beloved members of the family.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Back in 1958 my mum went to the local (small) petshop to investigate buying me goldfish and tank for my 10th birthday. There was a litter of terrier puppies in the window with kittens next to them. One boy was trying to get his paw past the partition between him and the kittens. Some chap who was looking at them commented that that was the one he would have if he was buying. Mum ended up buying that pup and he was the best present I ever had. Lost him to liver cancer 10 yrs later. Back then it was the norm for pups and kittens to be sold in petshops but the difference was that they didn't come from puppy farms, usually just families whose bitch had had a litter. Lots of latchkey dogs then.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Back in 1958 my mum went to the local (small) petshop to investigate buying me goldfish and tank for my 10th birthday. There was a litter of terrier puppies in the window with kittens next to them. One boy was trying to get his paw past the partition between him and the kittens. Some chap who was looking at them commented that that was the one he would have if he was buying. Mum ended up buying that pup and he was the best present I ever had. Lost him to liver cancer 10 yrs later. Back then it was the norm for pups and kittens to be sold in petshops but the difference was that they didn't come from puppy farms, usually just families whose bitch had had a litter. Lots of latchkey dogs then.

I remember! We used to call into the pet shop to look at the puppies on our way home from school!

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Puppy farms are illegal, are they not?

I think there are lots in Carmarthenshire? Government funded? I think Many Tears takes in lots of ex breeding dogs. Morally, it makes me itch.

 

[GSD Woman]

No, we don't.

The US have to wash their chicken carcasses in disinfectant because of the terrible, cramped and unhygienic conditions the chickens live in. In the EU (and UK for now) this is banned, not because it is unsafe for consumers but because it covers up poor hygiene on the farm and enables terrible welfare.

ETA: Last time I checked, the US had no laws (state level or federal) covering the welfare of non-laying chickens. Not even basic "don't torture them or starve them to death" laws.

There are terrible conditions for chickens. It used to be the norm for laying hens to have their beaks clipped to stop them from pecking their cage mates.

There are federal laws about the conditions of farm animals but there is usually only 1 inspector per state so it is hard for those laws to be enforced. There usually has to be a fairly serious complaint filed before action can be taken. Some states have more stringent laws on the keeping of commercial livestock. California is one such state. Most of those sorts of laws are developed from people who have little knowledge of animal husbandry so they aren't practical for smaller farmers to implement due to cost.

The US is a large country and for inexpensive food many food animals don't get the best treatment. As someone who has to take in high levels of protein due to a medical condition I don't want meat to priced beyond my income but want decent conditions for the animals who end up feeding me. Right now I get my eggs from friends who have a glut due to the number of hens. I'm hopeful that the pullets I have now will make it to adulthood and I'll have my own supply starting next spring. Beans are great but I can't make my entire diet out of beans and I have to stay low carb due to another health issue so meat and seafood is needed.

Sorry to ramble but I'm good at that.