What the ... loan prices?

Horses cost money. If no-one was willing to offer a share, then your choice would either be riding school lessons (at £20 or more a time where more often than not you learn very little due to the group environment), or buy your own. One £20 lesson weekly comes to £80 a month for ONE day a week's riding. £160 if you wanted to ride twice.

To keep your average horse on DIY livery in the south east, you're looking at a budget of around £350 all in (livery, vaccs, insurance, savings for vet bills, feed, hay, bedding, shoes...). So three days being half the available riding and half the costs -
£175 for three days. Young horses don't cost less to keep, or more, than older horses.

So - three days a week lessons at a riding school: £240-£300 per month. Three day horse share - £175.
 
I find the majority of sharers have a poor standard of riding, know nothing of schooling a horse for improvement (or even worse, *think* they do, but are actually just obsessed with getting horse to tuck its head in), either have no knowledge or don't care about things like warming up and fitness levels, can't recognise a lame horse unless its on 3 legs, no nothing about first aid, can't muck out or clean tack properly, want to not pay the sharer fee for the week they go on holiday or if the horse is lame.

To the posters who think allowing someone to share my horse means the sharer is doing me a favour, I'd like to know how that is?! There are sharers out there who are lovely people, willing to learn, happy to abide by my rules and able to ride well enough to control the horse. But they're not "doing me a favour"! The only reason I'd have a sharer is for financial reasons and I'd expect them to pay half the running costs of the horse (excluding vet bills and new tack/rugs etc).

OP, if you take on a recently backed youngster, who says you have to school it? You could hack it mostly and only school once a week or something. Not all people advertising horses for share are expecting the sharer to school them.
 
I find it very interesting the amount of people who compare sharing a horse to having lessons. If you have a lesson, you are being taught, so you are not just riding, you are also paying for a service. If you go on an escorted hack, then the same applies. You do no yard work, someone is paid to do that, and you generally don't tack up or un tack, so again a service. Whilst many of us enjoy these things, it means that a lesson and sharing does not equate to the same thing in terms of man hours used.
There is also the point, that in this case the horse was a youngster, which is more hard work. Its fine, and very rewarding if its long term, but with sharing there is no guarantee, owners have a tendency to throw there toys out of the cot if the horse goes better for the sharer, and things change. There was also a thread on here, regarding someone who shared a pony, and had a contract, and the attiude of people on here was that the owner had the right to ride roughshod over the person who was sharing, contract or no, so all things considered you shouldn't expect to pay half the costs for half the riding.
The amount that people pay also varies massively around the country. Within the same 12 month period, I paid £55 for full livery including feed, and I said what she was fed, and ad lib hay and haylage, and £150, and then provided the feed on top, as they didn't feed the sameway I did. So yes, there is always going to be a huge disparity in what people are prepared to pay, and what is reasonable in different parts of the country.
 
zaminda said:
I find it very interesting the amount of people who compare sharing a horse to having lessons. If you have a lesson, you are being taught, so you are not just riding, you are also paying for a service.
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Not had a sharer yet I didn't have to teach myself for free, not just stable skills but riding too. And that's in 8 years. I've known people ride for 4 years + in a riding school and barely be able to apply a decent canter aid, rise to the trot all wrong, fall off at the drop of a hat, have no idea about outline or proper aids. Am I supposed to just leave them to it? By the time they grow out of the pony, they can go on with the skills and confidence to be fairly independent, but that doesn't happen without a lot of help.
 
Okay just to address a few points here that have been mentioned and some directed at myself, sorry for not quoting particular posters its just easier and quicker to do it this way.

First just a little about myself, I have ridden for 16 years now, have had my own horses, started youngsters, schooled on a few problem horses, so by no means am I just out of a riding school. I don't boast, I am a decent rider, one that someone could just leave with their horses.

I personally do take pleasure in bringing on a youngster, I think it is an amazing experience, but I would not want to bring on someones horse (which I am paying for) for them to be able to sell it on. This is one of the biggest problems I have with loaning or sharing youngsters. Older and more established horses fair enough.

I just think prices are a bit high at the moment just for loaning.
 
As for the poster who mentioned wanting a quality horse, I very much doubt that most successful affiliated competition horses would be available to sharers.
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I have a top classs horse that i have advertised for a sharer/full loan at my yard. We have lovely facilities, they can ride and compete as often as they like (BS, hunt, XC, event, arena event, dressage), he comes with all his tack and rugs, including competition gear, is on part livery, so they can come and go as they please. Everything is on the yard that they need (Hay,shavings,feed) i can go and muck out and cover holidays etc, so no extra cost involved. A trainer on yard to have lessons with. I asked for £150 a month plus his shoeing cost and i will cover all other costs and haven't had a phone call! I thought that would be a good deal for someone, but clearly not.

If I could get 3 days on a schoolmaster, with no mucking out (asthmatic, not lazy) and somewhere with good hacking and pref indoor school I'd pay £150 - possibly a little more for a really nice horse. But then I wouldn't be training the horse.
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Paulag are you sure you don't want to make a trip to Leicestershire????
 
guido16 said:
Cricket, think I will sell all my horses and just share one since apparently I can do it for free with no responsibility!

For anyone that thinks they can share/part loan a good all rounder for diddly squat, I have to say, I think you have never experienced what it costs to keep a horse!
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I have shared a number of horses of varying abilities and levels of education.
Not once have I paid a penny. :p
Currently I have a nice 12yo warmblood I can ride 5 days a week, hack, school. compete (once fit), whatever I feel like doing. Yard has nice floodlit outdoor school, horse walker etc. Dont pay a penny for this.

Also have a rather lovely ID coming to stay with me for two weeks soon.
Owner could just leave him in the field with her other two (being looked after by someone else) but she perefered to pay his livery at the same yard as warmblood is at so I can ride him while she's away.

Also compete a horse for someone on here. Just have to turn up at comp and hop on horse. No cost involved to me.

And yes I do know the true cost of keeping horses. Wife and daughter have one each.

Payment depends on many things....
If owner needs the horse to get more exercise that they can give I dont see why money should be involved as both parties benefit.
If owner wants a horse brought on by someone more experienced then again I dont see why money needs to change hands as both parties benefit.
If owner has a nice well educated horse that isn't going to be improved significantly by the sharer and needs the cash then fine, charge for it.

There are many ways of re-paying an owner for the share that dont include cash.
 
I wish people would stop calling sharing loaning - its not a loan unless you are loaned the horse, and its totally in your care/use and you are paying for everything..

I also think those that compare a riding school are missing the point completely. At a RS you are under their insurance and instruction/supervision - even on a hack. Generally speaking, things at a RS are set up for the client - horses are cared for and prepared for the client. With a share, things seem to mostly go the owner's way, and often the sharer is not sounding to be respected.

I have two sport horses, one of whom has won BE and BS, and I have had mixed experiences with sharing their exercise. I have had a few people come to help exercise them over the years. I never expect a penny, I am an instructor, and have given people free lessons and helped them on the horses. I would happily let someone compete if I wasn't, and do pc rallies on one of them with mystepson on the other if need be. I'm not precious that my horses would be ruined by someone else (generally they work out the rider long before the rider works them out!). I never wanted money, it was always to help keep my horses fit. People have been so flaky - as someone said, if its free they don't seem to respect it. There wasn't much structure to when they came, and they didn't understand that horses can't do fast work/jumping unless they are reasonably fit. A lot of them petered out, and I'm really at the stage where I can't be bothered anymore. When I was younger and doing my stages I would have killed for the chance to ride and have lessons on horses like mine. Nowadays people don't work at things and just expect it..

By the sounds of this thread, there are all types of share around - cheap and not, various horses, so we ought to all be able to find suitable! Not so easy in real life though!

ps. For those that need a sharer for financial reasons - yes the sharer is doing a favour for you too - without them some people may lose their horses!
 
Snowy1 said:
I have a top classs horse that i have advertised for a sharer/full loan at my yard. We have lovely facilities, they can ride and compete as often as they like (BS, hunt, XC, event, arena event, dressage), he comes with all his tack and rugs, including competition gear, is on part livery, so they can come and go as they please. Everything is on the yard that they need (Hay,shavings,feed) i can go and muck out and cover holidays etc, so no extra cost involved. A trainer on yard to have lessons with. I asked for £150 a month plus his shoeing cost and i will cover all other costs and haven't had a phone call! I thought that would be a good deal for someone, but clearly not.



Paulag are you sure you don't want to make a trip to Leicestershire????
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I would snap your hand off if you were in the south east!!

It's a shame that a lot of people forget that there are genuine people out there with experience, who are realistic in the time and money it take to own a horse, and therefore are looking for a share for exactly that very reason.

I'm currently looking for a share which I can dedicate time, money and training to, but I would want something that give me a 'share' in the good side of riding and having the chance to compete too. I had a previous great share in Bristol before I moved, but it's very hard to find the right horse/opportunity and the right owner, in the right location.
 
Honey08 what's wrong with the term "loaning"? Years ago horses were part loaned/half loaned or full loaned, the term "sharer" didn't exist. At least, not in the area I grew up.
 
When I used to share I paid £100 a month for 3 days a week, which was worked out on a pro-rata basis to the cost of keeping to the number of days I did. The horse was kept on a DIY yard and I helped out with stable duties on my days. I thought this was perfectly fair as for me sharing was all about having the horsey time/relationship and gaining experience (both on the ground and in the saddle), before eventually going on to fully loan one and then buying my own.

I think some people have no idea how much it costs to keep a horse! My horse currently costs me around £220-270 per month for livery, bedding, hay, feed and supps, shoeing, worming and insurance. That cost doesn't include dentist, jabs, saddle fitter, physio, any vets bills, rug cleaning/repairs, tack repairs/replacements, competing, lessons, petrol to and from yard....oh I could go on and on!
 
Seems to me that prices and arrangements are pretty much infinitely variable, depending on the situation, motives and skills of individual owners and sharers. Hence these recurring discussions! FWIW, I've had four shares since I started riding again post-uni: the first I paid for (half the livery bill for 3ish days a week); the second I paid nothing for, usually around four days a week inc competing, the third I paid for (£100 per month for two days) and my current one I pay nothing for (indeed, my lovely owner often leaves me a bottle of wine or veg plants and still insists on paying me for clipping :o).

I'm all too aware of the cost of keeping a horse - that's why I don't have one - I'm a freelance with an unpredictable and not enormous income, and infirm parents - I couldn't make the commitment of ownership and no horse would thank me for trying! If I wasn't able to find a free ride I probably wouldn't ride at all. But I do have some skills to offer and I do accept, as all sharers need to, that the horse may be taken away from me for whatever reason. My second share involved riding (and schooling/competing) - for more than three years - the owners' (there were two) third horse because they had enough on between them, but when one of their other horses was finally retired I was phased out pretty quickly without a word being said - the pleasure I'd gained through bringing on a rather quirky older horse in jumping and dressage was just about balanced out by the frustration when I was basically sat at home again while his owners reaped the benefits.

My present share, for me, works the best. His owner has no financial worries and doesn't want my money. But her horse is a bit of an idiot at times and she is now the other side of 60 and doesn't appreciate his leaping about. So I hack him, she schools and has lessons and competes, and I act as groom (as today, out to a jumping lesson, and Saturday, grooming at dressage, etc), do the chores, keep the tack clean, clip him, plait him, do him when she goes on holiday. The decisions are all hers, obviously, but we discuss all aspects of his care, which gives me a reason to keep thinking and learning. I like having a more defined "role" and my owner doesn't have to do the bits she's not so fond of... I've been riding him now for about two years and I wouldn't dream of buggering off for pastures new if the going got tough or he couldn't be ridden.
 
kerrieberry2 said:
£270 for diy grass? where do you keep yours? thats more than I pay for 2 horse and 2 shetlands!!!!
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Welcome to the Surrey Hills :):(

If you go down to sussex clay and roadwork then it's £100 or into Guildford but with very little hacking but you pay a premium for good hacking in Surrey and a sandschool.
 
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As far as I'm concerned, it is give and take - and it depends on the individual arrangement as to how much (if any) financial contribution should be made.

I think a lot of horse owners only think of the advantage to the sharer - and compare the costs to those of a riding lesson, which isn't really comparable as has been pointed out (paying for tuition, no chores, total flexibility, no commitment etc).

But it works both ways. Yes, the sharer gets a horse to ride without the commitment of owning. But the owner gets the benefit of the horse being exercised and kept fit, maybe even schooled well, and they get a few days off from doing chores. Without the sharer, they'd be paying a fair whack to a YO to do the same thing.


So in my view, sharing is often mutually beneficial, even without any financial contribution. Of course it completely depends on the situation and what is being offered.

An experienced rider, bringing on a horse for somebody, probably wouldn't expect to pay.

On the other hand, if the horse was a fantastic allrounder, good competition horse, genuine schoolmaster etc, with the opportunity to compete and so on - then a contribution is fair. But I definitely think it should be a fair proportion of the actual costs of keeping the horse, and no more.
 
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