What to do now ........ "sold" pony, stage payments

Miss L Toe

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OK, so I struggled to find someone who was capable of schooling my horse, and he was just a struggle for me, financially and otherwise, just no pleasure any more.
When at last a pleasant girl [over 21] came along, I let her take him, she paid a good deposit, and [when pushed] has paid about half the amount agreed, tho so far I have provided feed and tack and so on, as I still own him.
I obviously want the best for my horse, and I don't like moving him, not to mention that there are no schooling facilities, what do I do now, she wants a receipt for "her records" fair enough, but really, I have occasional enquiries about him , and I have had so many promises, I am pretty fed up, it looks as though she took him, hoping I would hand him over to her, but this is basically dishonest.
Last week she was going to pay something, talking about insuring him, this week, she has no work and has to buy hay........ well both these problems would have been predictable at this time of year.
I have previously refused to let him go on loan several people, as anyone who knows how to ride would know if he suits when they try him.
 

Wheels

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Well not sure about your last comment,it really can take some time to know whether a horse will suit a new rider or not.

Anyway, I wouldn't let him go to this girl without full payment, she can always come to your place to see him, ride, groom etc.

I would set a deadline for final payment and if she can't meet that then you should return her money less an agreed deposit and put him back on the market.
 

Star_Chaser

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Certainly wouldn't have let him go uninsured. Any receipt that you write should always state deposit with the remaining to pay and the condition that if not paid in full then the horse still belongs to you. Personally wouldn't have done it.

Did you allow a move of yards??
 

Theocat

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I'd give a receipt stating XXX received in part payment towards XXXX, with the remainder due by XXXX, and include a line saying that payment in full is due by X date, after which the sale is cancelled and you will retain the deposit in full.

I'd keep the insurance going until you have full payment, and if this girl has full use of the horse I'd be insisting she pays for feed and all other costs in the meantime.
 

Polos Mum

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I'd have a sensible chat with her and make it clear you want him paid for in full by X date (or give specific dates of installments) and that if those aren't made you will be coming to collect him and will return her money less the cost of readvertising/ collection (and if your cheeky the cost of livery until he is sold).

TBH tho if she can't afford feed or hay for him is this the home you really want him to go to?
If you have other people who can loan him at least they would take on the whole cost of his up keep. Or (as spring is getting closer) readvertise him for sale only.

I'd also get him insured asap and tell her you will be deducting the premiums from what she has paid you while he has been on loan to her. If he is injured badly I'd be she'd just return him to you and wave goodbye.
 

Spring Feather

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Nothing leaves my farm without being paid for in full. All horses selling on a payment-plan are sold on contract stating when payments are due and what happens if payments cease. All payments are invoiced and immediately receipted on receiving each installment. Horse only leaves once all payments are received.

If you want the horse sold outright then take it back and either refund the payments she's made or if it states in the contract that payments are non-refundable, then don't. It really depends on what your sales contract says.
 

Shysmum

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This is not acceptable at all ! Pay in full and THEN collect the horse. If she can't afford to keep it, then DO NOT SELL HER THE HORSE !!

It ain't rocket science !
 

skint1

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I'm loaning a horse that I will be paying for in stages, I need to contact the owner to find out how they want me to do it, I was thinking PayPal, that way there is a record for us both, but that is a different situation, the horse is not monetarily valuable and is on full loan to me at the yard where the owner has family/contacts to keep an eye on things.
 

Miss L Toe

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Yes, well, the horse is not being starved, he is probably better off where he is now than before, I am not in a position to take him back which is why I let him go, and she is perfectly happy with him, also she is capable of riding him, which was not the case with most people who came to try him.
It is fine to say " dont let him go without payment" but I had tried to sell him for nearly two years, most "experienced riders" were unable to school a horse, one actually burst in to tears when he stopped and would not walk on....he had quickly worked out who was in charge!
 

Miss L Toe

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Well not sure about your last comment,it really can take some time to know whether a horse will suit a new rider or not.
I have owned the pony for several years, and have done all the work with him, he has no badness in him but needs a competant person to ride him, I can tell when he does not like the way he is being ridden, and when he is ok with it, he has a slightly quirky nature, but is predictable and is in fact a lovely ride.
I have been riding and training horses for 20-30 years , and can tell straight away when someone can ride a horse and when they can't.
The things people tell you ..... one wanted him for Endurance and Le Trek ...... something forward going ...... she got on him and gave him a double welly in the belly ........no other aid! Her instructor asked me why I shouted at her!
This instructor then got on and in spite of being asked to warm him up for ten minutes, she gave him two circuits of the arena and started to fiddle on the reins, and kicking him in the ribs, he did NOT like this , ears back, she complained he could not "collect", though in the right hands he goes quite well. I stood in the middle and asked him to trot on, in a fifteen metre circle round me ... no problem, on the bit, working through.
I would ask people what they want to do with him, and am honest about his talents, he is a well balanced and safe ride, but no use for novices used to riding school ponies. If someone wanted to learn how to ride properly they could manage him as long as they took lessons every week, otherwise he would regress, that is just the way he is.
 
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Dry Rot

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I agree with skint1 on this.

Frankly, I can't decide from the OP's post whether the horse is on loan or sold. If sold, then the payment becomes a separate matter and the ownership has passed to the purchaser when the agreement was made. If she defaults, there is a remedy in law. But even that remedy does not guarantee she'll get her money.

Vague verbal agreements are a recipe for disaster. There is no need for a formal contract but at the very least, sit down and write a letter with a bulletted list stating what is agreed.
 

Ibblebibble

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do you have any sort of written contract with this girl? if not i have to be honest and say for someone who has worked in horses for as long as you state you've made a real novice error!
 

WelshD

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The lady is right that she should have something for her records but I would use that opportunity to lay down what is now required since presumably she should have paid for the horse by now

The previous suggestion of writing it to say X paid followed by Y number of payments of X leaving Z payments to be made by *date*

Or consider returning some or all of her money and starting again

That might actually put a rocket under her
 

Polos Mum

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OP if you tried to sell him for 2 years (without sucess) and that you can't afford to have him back I'd write her a receipt that says you accept what she has paid in full and final settlement and that he is now fully 'sold' to her and that you will therefore no longer be contributing to any of his costs.

It may not be right and she may well have deceived you but she now has you backed into a corner. Unless we are talking many £1,000s then the cost of you continuing to feed and hay him will soon add up to what she owes you!
 

Mrs Jingle

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OP if you tried to sell him for 2 years (without sucess) and that you can't afford to have him back I'd write her a receipt that says you accept what she has paid in full and final settlement and that he is now fully 'sold' to her and that you will therefore no longer be contributing to any of his costs.

It may not be right and she may well have deceived you but she now has you backed into a corner. Unless we are talking many £1,000s then the cost of you continuing to feed and hay him will soon add up to what she owes you!
Absolute common sense, the best solution for you, the buyer and the horse, based on the content of your own posts OP.
 

Booboos

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OP if you tried to sell him for 2 years (without sucess) and that you can't afford to have him back I'd write her a receipt that says you accept what she has paid in full and final settlement and that he is now fully 'sold' to her and that you will therefore no longer be contributing to any of his costs.

It may not be right and she may well have deceived you but she now has you backed into a corner. Unless we are talking many £1,000s then the cost of you continuing to feed and hay him will soon add up to what she owes you!
This!

Consider him sold and write the girl a receipt saying so. Take back your tack etc if she does not want to buy it.
 

Wagtail

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I would tell her the deal is off and take back your horse. Refund her the money either now, or when you sell him. If she is struggling to find enough money to pay in instalments, then she cannot afford to keep him and I would fear for his future with her.
 
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Spring Feather

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I would tell her the deal is off and take back your horse. Refund her the money either now, or when you sell him. If she is struggling to find enough money to pay in instalments, then she cannot afford to keep him and I would fear for his future with her.
To be fair we don't know that she can't afford his upkeep. She may well be able to afford his daily keep but cannot afford the payments on top. That can be a struggle if buying a horse on a budget. The OP mentions the person was talking about paying for insurance and buying in hay so maybe the money went on that. However the OP does also mention the buyer doesn't have a job, but does that mean someone else is financing the horse (OH) or does that mean she is penniless. If the latter then why would you allow your horse to go to someone who doesn't have the money to keep it? Too many questions, such vague answers from OP, so makes it difficult to get a good overall view of what exactly is going on.
 

Lucyad

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Something is only worth what someone will pay for it, and with no takers at that price for 2 years, it sounds like you might need to accept that the girl who has paid half ultimately pays a reduced rate, or if you take the hrose back, lower your expectations of how much you will get for him.
 

Wagtail

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I'm a bit confused. OP says she is still feeding the horse? But then says the buyer needs to pay for hay and so can't pay what she owes. I would be very worried that the buyer would not be able to maintain a horse. I know that just not having the capital to actually BUY a horse does not mean you cannot afford it, but when paying in installments and with the OP still paying for the upkeep, I would have expected them to stick to the arrangement.
 

Spring Feather

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Oh who knows what is actually going on Wagtail. The story changes so much it's difficult to make any proper suggestions or give advice. OP seems convinced she knows what she's doing so I'd just let her get on with it. I know I wouldn't let a horse leave my property with so many loose ends but then I clearly don't do business in the same way as the OP.
 

Miss L Toe

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I would tell her the deal is off and take back your horse. Refund her the money either now, or when you sell him. If she is struggling to find enough money to pay in instalments, then she cannot afford to keep him and I would fear for his future with her.
I can't take him back, and told her at the time he is mine till she pays for him, the agreement was that if he did not suit her, she would sell him locally for me.
A written contract has no more value than a verbal one to be honest.
I think she will come through in the end, I have the passport, and I think she is basically fairly honest. Its a small world, and it will soon become known if she defaults ........ there is a local fb horse group, I can advertise him on there, with reasons, lol!
She already has a record of payments on her bank statement, so that is not really an issue.
 

Miss L Toe

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Oh who knows what is actually going on Wagtail. The story changes so much it's difficult to make any proper suggestions or give advice. OP seems convinced she knows what she's doing so I'd just let her get on with it. I know I wouldn't let a horse leave my property with so many loose ends but then I clearly don't do business in the same way as the OP.
I am not in business, she was the only suitable person, and horse is probably in the best place, which is the most important consideration.
 

Miss L Toe

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Something is only worth what someone will pay for it, and with no takers at that price for 2 years, it sounds like you might need to accept that the girl who has paid half ultimately pays a reduced rate, or if you take the hrose back, lower your expectations of how much you will get for him.
The cost of the horse has never been an isssue with any of the people who viewed him. The isssue has been that they are not capable of riding anything other than RS types.
I will be taking some grub over this month, but I have discovered that horsey people in this area will say anything, I am used to working in a professional environment, where people are honest. I could go on.
She gave me references which is more than any of the other timewasters.
I could stop giving her the feed, it will be added on to her account and she has agreed to pay for it, but .... hey guess what .... no money!
 
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Look I'd write he receipt stating either the deadline for the rest of the money or saying the horse is now hers.

You can't have it both ways OP, if you can't afford the horse back and you push her and she hands him back what are you going to do?? Written agreements have more of a punch than verbal ones.
 

Lucyad

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The cost of the horse has never been an isssue with any of the people who viewed him. The isssue has been that they are not capable of riding anything other than RS types.
Goodness, you have been unlucky in your viewers! I know that the market is flat - I was just raising it in that if you decide to take him back if she can't / won't pay the full agreed cost, it might be similarly difficult to sell him to someone else. I wonder whether you advert has been putting more capable riders off for some reason?
 

Miss L Toe

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I advertised in lots of ways, and places, as he is not what I would call high spirited, just needs someone who will ride him positively and sympathetically, but ride him thru any "testing the boundaries", they need experience of riding several horses in order to ride him forwards and school him.
I will just carry on, and hope she comes up with the money..... eventually...........
If she wants to change the "contract" it is up to her to propose changes, not me, if you see what I mean. I will stand firm, the horse is not hers till she pays for it.
 

Miss L Toe

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Look I'd write he receipt stating either the deadline for the rest of the money or saying the horse is now hers.

You can't have it both ways OP, if you can't afford the horse back and you push her and she hands him back what are you going to do?? Written agreements have more of a punch than verbal ones.
There is no where for him to come back to. She agreed to buy him or sell him locally if he did not suit, one can't have a flexible agreement like that without some trust.
 

Miss L Toe

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Sometimes one wants a few objective views and suggestions, which I have had, also some pm s which are supportive.
In the long run, I want what is best for the animal.
There are plenty of people who would take him for nothing, then sell him on, this is not suitable for him. I dont want be too specific or I will identify the "buyer".
The thread is closed, ty.
 

OWLIE185

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Just one thing. The Passport should be with the horse. (The passport does not demonstrate that the person in possesion of the passport is the legal owner of the horse).
 
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