What to do - watching so many mistakes!

Wagtail

Wagtail

Horse servant
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One of my liveries bought a four year old ex racer filly (actually, she never raced) around 18 months ago. She has always wanted to do it all herself without help, though I have made it clear that I am on hand should she ever need me. I've retrained countless ex racers. Anyway, she is into natural horsmanship etc, which I don't have a problem with and she adores the mare (now six) and is endlessly patient with her. BUT it is like watching a car crash every time I see her do anything with the horse. She is on full livery so I handle her several times a day and never have a problem with her, but yet her owner manages to let go of her almost every time she handles her. In the eighteen months she has actually gone backwards in her 'progess' with the little mare and it has reached a stage where I am seriously worried that the owner will get badly hurt. The mare frequently breaks away from her and kicks at her missing by millimetres. She's not a nasty horse at all. It is entirely the owner's fault as she gives her no communication whatsoever and so the horse has no idea what to do. In fact, when she gallops away, the owner just goes up and gives her a pat! Once I couldn't watch any more and went in to offer help and soon got the little horse lunging in the pessoa. I had to put a bit in her mouth due to her getting used to being able to charge off in the cavasson, but as soon as the owner was back in charge, the bit was done away with and the horse got worse and worse. Now a year later, she has never ridden the mare or so much as got a successful circle out of her lunging. She just lets her gallop around at break neck speed with the lunge line trailing and digging up my arena! What can I do? I have dropped enough hints that I am here to help, but now I think that even I would struggle to undo the damage that has been done to this horse's training. I really think the owner is going to be seriously hurt soon. I have insisted she wears a hat but what else can I do as a yard owner, or should I just try not to look? (difficult when the arena is right outside my house).
 
Horrible having to see someone doing something with their horse that you wouldn't. Sounds like you have done all you can do, you sound like you have been very patient/helpful up till now. Unfortunately it doesn't sound like there is much more you can do, other than be around to pick up the bits when it goes horribly wrong (which sadly sounds like what is on the way). Its her horse and she has to deal with her decisions, try not to look.
 
I think in your shoes I would show her this thread. I would explain I could no longer be liable (if you ever were) for her or her horses safety. Either do things your way or move.

Jane
 
Sounds you have to either stand back and wait for the accident that is waiting to happen or start butting in and being a busy body, it does not sit well but if it helps the owner and horse it maybe the only solution for the time being
 
It is so difficult. In many ways she is a fabulous livery, always pays on time, always pleasant and loves her horse. However, I don't think that she knows she is way out of her depth. I keep telling her to ask if she needs help, and also give unasked for advice such as 'she really needs to be doing more walk and trot instead of gallop, and should be working over her back to build up her muscles. You really need to use a bit to stop her from charging off....etc etc.' And she seems to listen but just doesn't 'get it'. She sounds as though she understands, but then it is obvious that she doesn't understand about working a horse correctly. Also, she is rewarding all the bad behaviour and ignoring the good by giving no positive feedback to her horse on the rare occasions that she does the right thing. Oh well. I guess she doesn't want my help and so I should but out and try not to let it get to me. I don't know why it bothers me so much really, except that I think it's a disaster waiting to happen.
 
Have you tried suggesting different alternatives ie, "It's clear lunging the mare without a bit isn't really working, have you tried using a bit? I used a bit the time I lunged her and she was going lovely." That kind of thing. That way your not interfering but offering alternative solutions.

Edited to say you could also try relating her problems with an ex-racer you have retrained and suggest the things that you done to overcome the same problems.

Does she realise she isn't doing the mare any good, or is her head in the clouds?
 
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You're not my yard owner are you? There's a couple at ours who are like this, but one lady does get a lot of help.

I was actually wondering where you stand and if there is anything you can do as a yard owner when situations like this arise? There's a girl on our yard who's just got a saint of an old gelding on loan, and the way she rides is disgusting (think kick, boot, shout, smack constantly, I'm surprised its got any back teeth left, she might as well ride it with her hands through the bit rings) and an accident waiting to happen to be honest, I'm just waiting for the horse to get sick and dump her, but yard owner won't say anything.

But back to your original post, I would just be straight with her and say its dangerous and offer her one on one help. I can't believe she doesn't realize this herself.
 
Poor you that sounds like a very depressing situation to be in!

I find with some people who are into natural horsemanship that they are only prepared to listen to other people who are also into natural horsemanship, they don't believe anyone else can possibly know anything about horse behaviour/training. Is there some way you can find a good local natural horsemanship trainer and try to introduce them both to each other/encourage the livery to have lessons or go on a clinic with them. Hopefully this would really help as the trainer would also see that she is doing things wrong and put her on the right path. She would be more likely to listen to an outside trainer as she'd feel they were on the same wavelength so to speak. I know you could help her too if only she'd let you!

Alternatively maybe you need to have a really good chat with her to discuss what her aims are for her horse. Does she want to ride her? 18 months is a long time to make no progress, maybe she would really get her to the stage where she can start riding her, just doesn't know how. It may be you just have to be a bit firmer with her, tell her you will help her (not an offer!) because you want to see her riding and set some dates when you can work together or maybe offer to work the mare yourself and get her to watch so you can tell her what you're doing and why. I hope you can find a solution.
 
i would just be outright.
Invite her in for a cup of tea and tell her your concerns - make sure she knows you are not saying it to be nasty but because you can honestly see her being seriously hurt.
Ask if she will let you help her, say you do admire her love and determination with the horse and you really do like the girl and are worried for her.
If this doesnt work i would speak to her parents - good luck. Horrible situation to be in x
 
It's a tough one isn't it but I know how you feel as I had the same problem a couple of years ago with a livery of mine. She was a complete novice (never had a lesson before she bought her cob mare) but I inherited when I bought the yard along with the other liveries.
It would have made entertaining viewing if it wasn't for the fact that whenever she handled her mare it was a dangerous situation for her and those that happened to be around at the time. The mare would frequently get away from her when she was leading her, would go up and come down on her feet, shoulder or head. She had absolutely no idea what she was doing and she really couldn't ride. I gave her free instruction and schooled her mare as I felt so sorry for her but after 18 months of trying to help no improvement was evident in any area. The crunch came when the mare got away from her in the yard and before I could do anything to stop events, she double barrelled one of mine that was tied up being groomed. She was asked to leave with one months' notice on the understanding that she let me do all the handling of the mare in the interim to avoid further accidents. The mare was not a problem with anyone else, just her, it was a real shame as she was actually quite a nice type.
Not long after leaving here I heard that the mare had knocked her over and trampled her, breaking her leg. A horrible accident that you wouldn't wish on anyone but I have to say that I was mightily relieved that it hadn't happened at my yard.
 
I think you need to have a word, not in a confrontational way. Maybe you could offer her lunging lessons with a horse thats good to lunge than she'll get the feel of what a 'good horse' feels like rather than what she's used to. I would certainly have to speak to her if she's damaging the school surface. Maybe take her to watch a ROR or a TARRA (horses that trained but didn't race) class at a show, take pics and compare them to hers so she's got something to aim for.
 
I 2nd the advice about introducing her to a good local NH person. She will probs only listen to someone who she thinks isn't a 'horse abuser'... Otherwise it just sounds like the sort of horse which ends up on Project Horses, won't be the owners fault tho.
 
LouS said:
You're not my yard owner are you? There's a couple at ours who are like this, but one lady does get a lot of help.

I was actually wondering where you stand and if there is anything you can do as a yard owner when situations like this arise? There's a girl on our yard who's just got a saint of an old gelding on loan, and the way she rides is disgusting (think kick, boot, shout, smack constantly, I'm surprised its got any back teeth left, she might as well ride it with her hands through the bit rings) and an accident waiting to happen to be honest, I'm just waiting for the horse to get sick and dump her, but yard owner won't say anything.

But back to your original post, I would just be straight with her and say its dangerous and offer her one on one help. I can't believe she doesn't realize this herself.
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No, can't be your yard owner as would definitely havestepped in with the heavy handed girl! I have no qualms whatsoever in being blunt if someone is clearly abusing a horse.

I can't believe my client doesn't realise she is out of her depth either. My other liveries all come to me and tell me about the latest disaster she has had, bless her. She seems completely clueless about it all. Even when the horse kicks at her she doesn't even flinch. It is all very wierd, like she has no natural instincts. But she is an intelligent woman academically.
 
carefreegirl said:
I think you need to have a word, not in a confrontational way. Maybe you could offer her lunging lessons with a horse thats good to lunge than she'll get the feel of what a 'good horse' feels like rather than what she's used to. I would certainly have to speak to her if she's damaging the school surface. Maybe take her to watch a ROR or a TARRA (horses that trained but didn't race) class at a show, take pics and compare them to hers so she's got something to aim for.
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Thanks, good idea re the lunging. One of my own horses is an ex racer that I retrained and he's doing fab. I have retrained others that have gone on to do eventing, dressage and show jumping. It's what I used to do before I opened the livery. So I suppose ex racers are my speciality, which is why this makes such painful watching for me!
 
siennamum said:
I 2nd the advice about introducing her to a good local NH person. She will probs only listen to someone who she thinks isn't a 'horse abuser'... Otherwise it just sounds like the sort of horse which ends up on Project Horses, won't be the owners fault tho.
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Thanks, yes I would have much more luck with her if I were a NH person. I am actually not adverse and use some of their methods myself, but I am mainly a 'soft' traditionalist.
 
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