What to do when supplements stop working.

Toffee44

Toffee44

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 November 2009
Messages
6,157
Location
West Sussex almost Hants
Visit site
I have Toffee on Premier Flex have done for 3 years now.
Recently she has started to get a lot stiffer and started to drag her hinds as her hocks (she has known arthritus in her hocks) arent lifting as high. Shes also gone really sway in her back.

She has lost weight and had a bout of laminitus (first time ever). Teeth are ok (done 3 months ok). I am feeding her conditioning cubes, speedibeet and bran mash to try and get weight back on, also conteplating starting to hay even though I still have grass.

Shes on 18yo and officially retired this year.


I think I know the answer. And im typing this to put it in black and white for myself and hopefully get a few opinions from here. I have had her 10 years this year. :(
 
Woah there! Have you tried any other joint supplement?

My mare is 21, has had lami for the first time this year, was also clicky and stiff in her hocks and had lost loads of weight (she needed too mind) and muscle (she didn't need to...)with being on box rest. I had to replace her saddle as it was starting to get too low on her brand new prominent withers.

I started her on a double dose of Supplease Gold at the end of August - she looks great! She's getting more turnout in a stubble field (more than enough grass in there for a lami, thank you), galloping up the hill everyday when I call her - she barely shuffled before, shiny coat and putting muscle on, not fat. Everyone in the village where we live says how good she looks. We've been on some lovely rides where she hasn't napped (big problem before) and has been really enthusiastic.

Don't write your 'oldie' off yet!
 
If she is in pain could you give her a bute a day...my boy has arthritic fetlocks and has half a bute a day and joint supplements at double dose. This keeps him ticking over quite well. If she is feeling sore this won't help with general condition...maybe try painkillers before considering the end.
 
I would speak to your vet about the possibility of putting her on a low dose of bute to keep her comfortable and also consider having her tested for Cushings, as loss of topline and susceptibility to laminitis are symptoms.

As regards feeding, I would definitely hay her if she needs more condition. Try and get a late cut hay, which is likely to have lower sugar levels. I would be very careful about what conditioning cubes you feed as many are too high in starch and sugar for laminitics.
 
I think it is a bit soon to be thinking of PTS (if that is what you are considering). The laminitis would concern me, but so long as that is now under control the other things are less concerning. Retired horses often look more sway backed as they lose their top line. I would not be feeding her conditioning feed if she is prone to laminitis but would be looking for a fibre based feed and yes, plenty of adlib hay in the field.
 
I am in a similar situation to you at the moment and it is a horrible place to be. My 19 yr old mare has arthritis in her knees and one hock, she has been light hacking on bute this year and was down to half a bute and glucosamine. Just recently she has become lame in front again and is not totally sound on one bute now.
Best course of action for us both is talk to the vet! You still have the option of bute to keep her comfortable if that is what you want. My problem is do I want to have to medicate to keep a paddock ornament going or am I being selfish?
It's not easy at all tho, see what your vet advises really and go with your gut instinct on what is best for you both.
 
There are several things to consider, has she got stiffer since she stopped being ridden? this probably also accounts for her back dipping, loss of topline due to not using herself.
The laminitis also due to no work? possibly cushings?
These could also contribute to the dragging behind, most arthritic horses benefit from light exercise.
I would look at testing for cushings, be careful about conditioning feeds as you would not want laminitis again.
If you could get a physio to treat her this could help and a change of supplement also.
I would offer her hay as a high fibre diet will be better for a laminitic,if she does not eat it then leave it for now.
 
I have considered the blood tests but my problem is that if it is linked with metabolic syndrome I cannot stable her. And I have never known anyone manage it on full turnout.

She has been on and off work for three years and officially finished in Febuary. Shes just miserable I have considered bute and shes had the odd sachet on bad days, and do have a vet visit booked end of the month (19th) for bloods (metabolic, and cushings as I had my suspicions last year). But my worry is what I do when I get a diagnosis. I am just worried I might be doing more harm than good. She had a bout of laminitus in April/ May time but nothing since. She has had a lot of input from Mctimoney over the last three years but I found that last year she was fine for a week and then was in alot of pain for a week before going back to how she was, she does have a pelvis that has now tilted due to the uneven spavins in her hocks. I hate to say it but money does have a issue to play as well, there is only so much in her "kitty" she has some back up as she isnt insured anymore so I put some by each month for times like this but it wont go on forever.

What hard feed can I feed to get her weight back on, she has lost a lot of topline but what worries me is her hips are tucked up. Shes being rugged at night now.

She came to me with a really heavy redworm burden and I am worrying this could also be contributing now??? Although this was under control with 6months of having her it must have done soem damage
 
Last edited:
Worm damage will cause loss of topline but she will also have a pot belly and be suspectible to colic (my late mare died of old worm damage so I know).
Regarding the hocks can't you speak to the vet and get them medicated so she's comfortable?
Regarding putting on weight you need to feed low starch, high oil and fibre. Ad lib hay or high fibre haylage. Alfa, kwik beet and oil and lots of it.
Don't give up just yet :)
 
Only you can decide the course of action for your horse, no one else has the right to say what is right or wrong.

There is a phrase that always rings true.... better a day too soon than a month too late.

You know your horse and if you feel they have lost their spark - you are the only one who knows that.

I dread the day with my veteran, he is still in full work and going strong - but even retirement will be hard cause he refuses to stay out at night and gets majorly stressed :( It will not be an easy decision if I ever have to come to that.
 
try other supplements, I use Buteless by equine america for my 31 year old with arthritis. Massive difference. Give it a couple weeks to work.
 
firewell said:
Worm damage will cause loss of topline but she will also have a pot belly and be suspectible to colic (my late mare died of old worm damage so I know).
Regarding the hocks can't you speak to the vet and get them medicated so she's comfortable?
Regarding putting on weight you need to feed low starch, high oil and fibre. Ad lib hay or high fibre haylage. Alfa, kwik beet and oil and lots of it.
Don't give up just yet :)
Click to expand...

Hmmm about the pot belly I assumed hers was from having two foals back to back?? As it has never gone, even in work, her udders have never shrunk either.
Touch wood, shes never coliced.

Feel soooo lost right now as she has always been a good doer living off fresh air.

Buteless and Devils claw never worked for her, tried it when she first started.
 
Have you tried bute itself, not supplements? I've had my horse on all sorts of expensive supplements but the only thing that really helps him is a sachet of Danilon each day. He hates being out of work and is utterly miserable. Giving him a sachet daily makes him more comfortable and he continues to work - keeps his body in good order and good for his brain too.

If she needs hay then feed hay or change her hard feed.

I'd get a good equine physio out not a McT chiro. My physio works wonders with my arthritic horse but have never personally been impressed with the results from a chiro - they seem to promise the earth but don't give you any sort of plan besides coming back in another 2 months or so...
 
Got to be worth the £100-£150 ish to get a vet to come and give her a good once over?

If it's cushing's pergolide works wonders for many and isn't much more money wise than most supplements/posh feed.

Depending on that re the laminitis earlier this year and her hocks , she could have her hocks medicated which might give her a new lease of life. I know there's a worry giving steroids to laminitics but your vet would be the best person to suggest whats best?

If the vet agrees that there's not much more you can do then you also know where you stand and can plan what to do from here on in.

Sounds like Toffee is lucky enough to have a very nice owner and I hope there's something that's easy to do , to give her back her bounce.
 
LegOn said:
I dread the day with my veteran, he is still in full work and going strong - but even retirement will be hard cause he refuses to stay out at night and gets majorly stressed :( It will not be an easy decision if I ever have to come to that.
Click to expand...

Why should retirement mean not coming in at night? :confused:
 
I think that the best person to advise you is your vet. :)

To be honest, while I think that some supplements can be beneficial and make a difference, I think that there comes a point when the damage is beyond what supplememts can help with, and I personally feel that this is where bute is worthwhile. There are many horses whose lives have been lengthened comfortably because of a regular dose of bute.

Pain is also a great fat burner, and I've seen some 'poor' horses be transformed weight wise when pain issues have been addressed so in your shoes I think I'd give bute a go and take each day as it comes from there.
 
I can never understand peoples reluctance to use Bute, and by the sounds of it this is what the horse nerds to be put on.
 
I will see what the vet says on the 19th going in a bit anxious as I have moved in Feb and I have never met this vet before, my last vet I had a really good raport with for just under 10yrs. Orginally he said dont do the cortisone basically because she was a pony that was hacked out once a week kind of thing, not a regulary ridden horse he said it was kind of false economy and if it came to it then I would need to go on bute.

Think I might sit tight, see what new vet says and maybe try bute. I suppose I can see the reluctance of bute my friends horse coliced really bad after a year on it and my last TB had kising spines and he basically over reached on almost every stride when on bute because he was pain free and was prancing about all the time.

Just really worried about what I know of her worming history and long term bute. The money is not tooo much of a problem but im just not a bottomless pit kind of thing. But unfortunately it is something I need to think about, as I am sure many other people have to.
 
I haven't read the whole thread but a few thoughts come to mind.
I would ditch the bran, if you want to put weight on her, bran is just a low-calorie filler. Try a different supplement, we use Equimins Flexi-joint for our oldie, the farrier says she is very supple for her age. I would try magnet boots to make her comfortable (I've had very good results) and before making any decisions about her future, I would ask an experienced vet to examine her and discuss her options.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top