What to do with a broken competition horse? Options

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Claire_N

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My horse of a lifetime has broken.

He has a constant nod of his head in trot that neither we nor the vets can fix. He has been tested by the vet and we don’t think that it is pain related, he has done all the tests flexion, small circles, trotted on hard surface etc etc and the vet said he was 100% sound if a little stuff due to his age! The only option given by the vet is nerve blocks, x rays & a full going over something we unfortunately cant afford as stupidly he is uninsured. The vet simply thinks it is a habit he has picked up that we cant get him to drop.

He is 15 years old now and has show jumped all his life doing the ages classes as a youngster winning at Hickstead etc. He came to us after an accident with barbed wire but still competed BS and jumped newcomers double clears! We also competed him at BD and he qualified for the BD Winter Championships via Area Festivals. Most recently he has competed at the Area Festivals at Medium and has started passage etc so he is certainly an excellent school master!

I am writing on here to see what options you believe we have.

I do not want to have him put down as I think he has a lot more to give, but obviously he can’t be competed as with the nod to his trot he gets pulled up at BD as lame! He doesn’t like being left out in the field with no attention so just turning him out to leisure he would hate!

Does anyone think someone would be interested in him as a happy hack with the ability to teach them all the tricks but without competing? He is 100% safe, can live out 24/7 and can go unshod. He doesn’t have any special needs or quirks and would be cheap to keep.

I am not interested in making any profit on him and would happily sell him to a lifetime loving home for £1!

This is not an advert as at the moment we are giving him rest to see if there is any chance of him coming back to competing as we really do not want to sell him , but I want to look at options in case the worst happens and he comes back in still nodding.
 
nerve blocks, x rays & a full going over something we unfortunately cant afford as stupidly he is uninsured
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Not expensive to do at all. Will cost around £400.

So, why not find out what's wrong with him and go from there?
 
I am sorry to hear about your horse :(

You absolutely would have no problem finding him a loan home, if you decide to go down that route. I would not be selling the horse for £1, as you never know where it could end up :(

My 19YO gelding went on loan earlier this year, to a lovely young lady who just wanted a horse to have at home that she could potter about on, do some beach rides, do a bit of schooling etc.

I put in his loan advert that he was not to be jumped under any circumstances, and still had well over 10 people interested.

The advantage of a loan is that at some point in the future, should you so wish, you could have him back to live out his retirement with you.

This is what i hope for my old boy - in 5-6 years time, I'd like to have the funds and resources to have him home to live out his final years. In the meantime, no reason he shouldn't get all the love and attention he could ever want.
 
Please dont take this the wrong way but why is he not insured?? Id have thought it would be absolutely imperative for a competition horse?? Im genuinely interested, not trying to be funny.
 
The amount it costs to run a competition horse, the length of time you have had him, and you are not prepared to spend a few hundred quid to find out what is wrong with him? I'm flabbergasted.

At the very least surely some nerve blocks to isolate the area and some quick scans/xrays (although they aren't necessarily going to give you the answer)

I'm not someone that thinks a slightly lame horse needs to be retired, far from it, providing they are bright and happy and keen to work. The horse may have a job as a schoolmaster or hunter, especially if can be supported with some pain killers - but surely just a little bit of financial input to try and narrow down the issue is required?
 
Thank you for your replies -

ihatework - the reason we don't particularly want to spend the money getting him X rayed etc is because the vet was 99% sure that is was not pain related and purely a stupid habit that he has got into that we cant get him out of, the vet was at a loss as to why he was doing it as no lameness showed up in his tests and only offered the nerve blocks etc as routine not as a problem fix. The farrier etc also could see no reason for lameness.

SatansLittleHelper - the reason he is uninsured is because when we bought him he was injured and rehabilitating so cost us very little, we never expected him to come on and compete or last as long as he has, but I do agree with you , were we to buy an expensive comp horse they would 100% be insured!

amymay - thank you for that information though I didnt realise it would be that sort of price I had imagined it would be in the thousands!

maletto - that is the kind of home I would be thinking of , just someone to give him love & attention. I just used the £1 to display that I am not interested in profit making and would rather give him away to a perfect home than sell him to a less than perfect one.
 
ihatework said:
The amount it costs to run a competition horse, the length of time you have had him, and you are not prepared to spend a few hundred quid to find out what is wrong with him? I'm flabbergasted.

At the very least surely some nerve blocks to isolate the area and some quick scans/xrays (although they aren't necessarily going to give you the answer)

I'm not someone that thinks a slightly lame horse needs to be retired, far from it, providing they are bright and happy and keen to work. The horse may have a job as a schoolmaster or hunter, especially if can be supported with some pain killers - but surely just a little bit of financial input to try and narrow down the issue is required?
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I try not to get involved in being critical or negative but I have to say, I felt the same about this post. I realise it's a hard situation OP but I think we owe it to our horses to look after them through the good and bad times, especially this boy who seems to have given you so much.

I understand that finances can be tight but, if you don't insure, wouldn't you instead put money aside on a regular basis to cover things like this?

It might well be something that is easily fixed but, if not, then at least you know more about the diagnosis and treatment and surely any sensible loaner would want to know that too? Otherwise you/they are in danger of him being worked and then breaking down completely, leaving you/them with a much bigger headache.
 
Claire_N said:
ihatework - the reason we don't particularly want to spend the money getting him X rayed etc is because the vet was 99% sure that is was not pain related and purely a stupid habit that he has got into that we cant get him out of, the vet was at a loss as to why he was doing it as no lameness showed up in his tests and only offered the nerve blocks etc as routine not as a problem fix. The farrier etc also could see no reason for lameness.
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The horse is exhibiting pain with every stride of his 'nod'. Out of interest have you done a bute trial, how long have you had him, and when did this 'habit' develop?


amymay - thank you for that information though I didnt realise it would be that sort of price I had imagined it would be in the thousands!
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No, it's all pretty inexpensive.
 
amymay said:
Not expensive to do at all. Will cost around £400.
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Thats cheap!! Ours vets would charge at least £800 plus for that. Would also depend how many x rays they did .

Would check prices with vet because price (if compare amymays price to ours) varies per vet and area.It may suprise you. Also some vets will let you pay up a bill if not too huge.

I would try and get at least nerve block and xray of affected area.I don't think I would even take on a happy hacker with a leg problem even if it was free unless you could actually tell me whats wrong and not going to bother him long term as would not be taking on a prob that would not get insurance for as a pre existing condition.
 
You need to find out for sure what is wrong.
Get the x rays, nerves blocks etc done.

You say he is a competition horse and now he cant do the job you want rid if him.
I expect. So you can get another to compete.

Really you owe it to this horse to pay to get.him properly assessed.
The money you use to compete, instead use for him vets bills.

With our doing these basic checks, like nerves block how do you know its nor curable or that hes not in pain.
 
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I'm not sure why vet thinks he is 100% sound when he is exhibiting a nod...

Cost obviously depends on the number of nerve blocks but given that they start from the bottom and that an awful lot of lameness is in the feet... - you are likely to be talking hundreds not thousands for a basic work up though IMO and it's not completely unexpected that an older horse might start to have niggles that need working on.

I'd prob be using a different vet though as I would be worried that yours has already reached his conclusion.
 
Sometimes you find that vets bills can be made a little cheaper if you explain you arent insured

It doesnt sound like he is the horse of your lifetime to be honest or you would have more loyalty towards him.

By selling (or even loaning) you cant control what someone else does with him especially if they find out he has a good competition history. a new competition horse will cost money so why not spend that getting your buddy properly assessed - you may find you actually save money
 
I am only going on what the vet said with regards to pain and if he didnt think it was pain related who am I to disagree.

He is a competition horse but I have other horses I compete so no it is not getting rid of him to replace him, he just would not be happy being left in field to live out the rest of his life and I dont want to put to sleep a healthy horse just due to a habit.

He has done a bute trial and this had no effect whatsoever on the nod - again causing the vet to think it was not pain related.

Now I am more aware of the sort of figures we are talking I will contact my vet again and enquire about the nerve blocks & how much a full going over would be, trust me we will do everything we can to get him right again as he was going so well before this problem started I am devastated at the thought of not being able to put in to practise all our hard work.

However I was looking for opinions on if all fails what my options would be.

Thank you for your replies, much appreciated, not being on a livery yard it is nice to get others opinions rather than going over & over it in my own head!
 
My horse was lame a few week ago and bute trial made no difference however after lameness work up was found to have inflamed suspensory and bony pain in front leg. The whole work up was 850 though that had a lot of nerve blocks and X-rays plus ultrasound scan in with it.

Hope you find a solution that works for you and your boy. Good luck x
 
Claire_N said:
I am only going on what the vet said with regards to pain and if he didnt think it was pain related who am I to disagree.
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With all due respect to you and your vet, you are customer. The horse is lame, so it's very much your place to disagree with his diagnosis.


He has done a bute trial and this had no effect whatsoever on the nod - again causing the vet to think it was not pain related.
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Or simply the pain the horse is experiencing is not being masked by the Bute. Again another strong reason to explore this further.

How long have you had him for, and how long has his problem been going on?
 
If it was me, I'd get a thermal imaging scan done of him. These are relatively inexpensive for a whole horse (approx. £70), and should give you an indicator of which areas may be problematic to him.

Based on this, get quotes from the vet for each difference procedure you think your horse may need. Then ring other vets in the same area and get their costs for the same procedures, then go with the cheapest one.

Outline exactly what you want doing, and how much you have to spend. (Make sure you put it in writing as well - preferably signed for letter, so you have recorded proof of what you wanted.)
 
Bute trails canot ever discount pain if the vets telling you that you need another vet.
A bute trail can only prove there is pain.
The vet not tell you this horse has no pain all he can do is tell you on the work he has done he has not found the source of the lameness / pain.
You really need to investigate more do some nerve blocking and see what happens , I would serious advise you to ask around and find a vet near you that's specialises in this type of work.
If you don't have a horse insured you really need a plan for what you going to do when this happens because it is just what horses do.
If your taking a stab in the dark approach I would start by blocking out the forefeet .
 
amymay said:
With all due respect to you and your vet, you are customer. The horse is lame, so it's very much your place to disagree with his diagnosis.




Or simply the pain the horse is experiencing is not being masked by the Bute. Again another strong reason to explore this further.

How long have you had him for, and how long has his problem been going on?
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We have had him for nearly 5 years, and the problem has been going on and off for a couple of months.

With respect I dont feel I am more qualified than my vet to argue with him. Although as someone has suggested I shall try getting a second opinion as I agree it does seem as though my vet has concluded before all routes have been explored.

I think the main issue is that as he didnt show any signs of lameness within flexion tests and trot ups he would have passed him on a 3 stage vetting as the problem only shows up on and off under saddle.
 
my friend it at around the £4000 mark for lameness work up, xrays, nerve blocks and scans - my you lot have some cheap vets - oh and they can't find whats wrong with him, so the advice is 6 weeks box rest and 4 weeks field turnout!!
 
I have so many horses who have issues that flexion is not relevant to .
But the big one is the front feet.
What work did the vet do to the front feet.?

One of mine developed a head nod in his teens it only showed when trotting on grass pulling his carriage .
It was traced in the end to a ligament at the top of his foot the nod happened when the lame leg was on the outside of a curve .
The vet found it by blocking out the whole of each foot in turn and then when we found which foot it was ,blocking out part of the foot only .
If you decide to do a work up discuss costs and options with the vet before hand they are very used to this and make a plan based on your discussion .
 
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Claire_N said:
We have had him for nearly 5 years, and the problem has been going on and off for a couple of months.
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Ok so this is an issue that has recently developed - so most definitely not a habit.

With respect I don't feel I am more qualified than my vet to argue with him. Although as someone has suggested I shall try getting a second opinion as I agree it does seem as though my vet has concluded before all routes have been explored.
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It's not about being more qualified that your vet. It's simply about looking at the animal in front of you and knowing there's a problem and expecting the issue to be properly investigated by the veterinary professional.

I think the main issue is that as he didn't show any signs of lameness within flexion tests and trot ups he would have passed him on a 3 stage vetting as the problem only shows up on and off under saddle.
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So - has the saddle been checked - the back been checked?

Bottom line is your horse has a problem that needs investigating. Your vet is not taking the issue seriously and so I would most definitely get a second opinion from a really good equine vet (although if that's not disagreeing with your vet, I don't know what is;)).

Just wanted to Edit to say:

I had a horse with coffin joint disease. Lameness only manifested itself initially when I was on board (no nod, just felt 'wrong'). Despite looking sound being trotted up (well to most eyes anyway, mine included), clearly there was a problem. Called vet, who did a full workup with nerve blocks and x-rays. The nerve blocks created a very lame horse, highlighting the foot that was the problem. And a perfectly sound horse when the foot was blocked out.
 
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WelshD said:
It doesnt sound like he is the horse of your lifetime to be honest or you would have more loyalty towards him.
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That's harsh. Sounds as if the OP has already spent a fair amount of money trying to route the problem, to which the vet has concluded that it is not pain related! I think the OP's intentions are right in trying to find a more suitable home for him, one where he isn't wasted.

OP- I think loaning would be the most viable option, many would jump at the chance of having him, that way you can keep a watchful eye. I personally wouldn't sell for the fear of where he would end up, taking into consideration his age and track record, it's very likely that he will passed around (as in people trying to make £ on him).
 
MS123 said:
That's harsh. Sounds as if the OP has already spent a fair amount of money trying to route the problem, to which the vet has concluded that it is not pain related! I think the OP's intentions are right in trying to find a more suitable home for him, one where he isn't wasted.

OP- I think loaning would be the most viable option, many would jump at the chance of having him, that way you can keep a watchful eye. I personally wouldn't sell for the fear of where he would end up, taking into consideration his age and track record, it's very likely that he will passed around (as in people trying to make £ on him).
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yes lets loan him out for someone to ride and jump when we have no idea why he is lame? what a great idea.

I am with the not a horse in a lifetime brigade for this one.

OP change your vet and get one that will do some tests and investigations before coming to a conclusion
 
Where I come from you don't loan out lame old friends to be ridden .
In my world that's not right .
If there is no money for vets (and every one ought to make a plan for this common eventuality of ownership of the older competition horse )then I would try a period of box rest with no shoes followed by turn out in as large a field as possible for three months at least.
 
mjcssjw2 said:
my friend it at around the £4000 mark for lameness work up, xrays, nerve blocks and scans - my you lot have some cheap vets - oh and they can't find whats wrong with him, so the advice is 6 weeks box rest and 4 weeks field turnout!!
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But you can say stop to your vets! once you start on the diagnostics route you don't have to keep going - my boy was insured at the time but still wouldn't have been having an MRI.

I just don't think the OP can state 'that neither we nor the vets can fix' when in fact apart from bute as far as I understand nothing has been done to help fix it as the problem has not been identified. At the very least I would be getting his front feet blocked and xrays. Also, importantly perhaps he is looking sound because his lameness is bilateral? nerve blocking will show this up too.

Ditto amymay - in hindsight Franks' foot/coffin joint issue did show up in a decline in his ridden work under saddle sometime before he actually broke and went lame unridden.

I certainly wouldn't be loaning him out to be ridden with an undiagnosed and recent problem, I think that is grossly unfair on the horse.
 
You should get a second vet to look.
Shouldn't cost much.

The second opinion could be vital to your next step.

Vets are only human and can make mistakes or be biased.

Sometimes an inpartial view can be very helpful.

As an example I read on here the other day of soneones who's horse had been diagnosed with wobblers and it was booked in to be put down.
For some reason a different vet had a look and said no wobblers.
So a third vet was being booked.

Imagine if the horse had been put down before the second opinion?
 
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So has this nodding been going on for 5 years? It seems not if you have only now started to doubt his ability to compete. On that basis, your horse is showing an obvious symptom of discomfort at every stride. It may not be in his legs, as you say that it's under saddle. Think what happens when horse is ridden, the saddle may be pinching at every stride, the bit may hit a sore tooth at every stride. Look elsewhere if the lameness isn't in the legs or feet, because your horse is in pain.
 
Total contradiction!

Claire_N said:
He has a constant nod of his head in trot that neither we nor the vets can fix.
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Claire_N said:
he has done all the tests flexion, small circles, trotted on hard surface etc etc and the vet said he was 100% sound if a little stuff due to his age!
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Another total contradiction! - Seriously if its not pain related why would a vet suggest a nerve block? Nerve blocks work by BLOCKING out PAIN!
Claire_N said:
He has been tested by the vet and we don’t think that it is pain related
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Claire_N said:
The only option given by the vet is nerve blocks, x rays & a full going over
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Seriously if the statements regarding your vet are 100% accurate, I would be getting a 2nd opinion!
 
I'd also get another vet to look :) If another vet also says it's an issue totally unrelated to pain then I think you have lots of time to think about how you want to handle this. I'd take a good few months to think about it, maybe save a pot of money and try some more tests. Since it's not a do-or-die issue and he doesn't seem to be in pain or suffering in any way you have plenty of time to try and fix your horse of a lifetime.
 
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