What to do with a broken competition horse? Options

Can I also point out that by not paying insurance for 5x years, you have saved what? £300-£500/year, so how about spending some of that £1500-£2500 on him? Sounds like he has earned it!
 
OP your horse sounds not dissimilar to mine.

Intermittent lameness started a couple of months ago. Almost indetectable when trotted up but increased significantly under saddle.

Took him to vets. Nerve blocks in all 4 legs, ten xrays and medication of hocks, coffin joint and back (mild kissing spines found) cost me a total £490. Expensive sure for buying say a handbag but for all that work and an overnight stay I thought it was very reasonable. I paid myself as I have not covered him for vets' fees. Horse now sound and doing very light lunging, long reining and walking out in-hand. I aim to be back riding probably around Christmas time, as I want to take things slowly with him and really build up his topline and back muscles. Since the treatment he is carrying himself very nicely and is much happier.
 
9tails said:
So has this nodding been going on for 5 years? It seems not if you have only now started to doubt his ability to compete. On that basis, your horse is showing an obvious symptom of discomfort at every stride. It may not be in his legs, as you say that it's under saddle. Think what happens when horse is ridden, the saddle may be pinching at every stride, the bit may hit a sore tooth at every stride. Look elsewhere if the lameness isn't in the legs or feet, because your horse is in pain.
Click to expand...

No we have had him for 5 years, the nodding has only begun recently.

Thank you for all your responses you have given me lots to consider and all the different opinions are exactly what I was looking for.

I would never loan him out or sell without being fully honest with someone, and as you have stated and as I already knew it would be neglectful to give him to someone while he is in pain, this was never my intention.

The front nerve blocks are the first thing we shall do I think and then go from there.

He has had his back checked, saddle checked and teeth done etc. He has had a full MOT no expense spared so for you to say I am making a snap decision is a little unfair.

The reason as already stated we were reluctant to go down the further vet enquiry route was because of cost and the fact there may be nothing to be found.

However reassurance that it will not cost the thousands I originally thought is very encouraging and I shall be contacting the vet to get booked in.
 
Sorry haven't read all the replies so may be repeating someone, but does he show this nod all the time or only when ridden? Could it be the saddle? I have seen even saddles that fit horse perfectly get taken apart and have nails sticking out of unfinished trees etc, expensive saddles too! Other option is have you had yourself checked out by a chiro or physio?
 
In terms of trying to cost a lameness examination it is a 'how long is a piece of string' scenario.

I think £400 is best case scenario - i.e. you get an early block and it's something that is easily identified on an ultrasound/x-ray. Many many cases are not that straightforward.

As a rough estimate - a very good lameness specialist vet - to do flexions and see on the lunge - approx £100-150. These good equine vets can take a very educated guss about the pattern of lameness e.g. how lame on the straight, on a soft circle, on a small hard circle, under flexion. Is the horse lamer on a particular leg in a particular direction? These all narrow down the origin of likely injury.

Then you get into a series of nerve blocks. Can be quick and easy, or could be a slightly more drawn out process. In general I'd budget £100-300.

An ultrasound scan approx £150

X-rays - depends on how many, budget £150-300.

All in all I think it would be sensible to set yourself a limit and work with the vet up to that limit. In reality you may need circa 1K if there is complexity to the lameness.

At the very least you surely owe this much to trying to find a cause?

And just to state the obvious - is the horse showing the lameness when naked and just in a headcollar trotted up/lunged? If sound in tht situation also worth ruling out teeth or saddle issues as both of those can make a horse nod.

If the above is unsucessful then you get to the realms of bone scan (£1500) or MRI (if blocked to feet but xray/scan are inconclusive) and in those circumstances, without insurance it would be questionable regarding cost v benefit.
 
Last edited:
Just have a frank discussion about the costs .
Set a figure for the day and ask them not to go over this without telling you .
The figure needs to realistic and you talk to them to understand what's what.
I think if it where me I would be thinking £1000 and then see where we go.
 
Claire_N said:
No we have had him for 5 years, the nodding has only begun recently.

Thank you for all your responses you have given me lots to consider and all the different opinions are exactly what I was looking for.

I would never loan him out or sell without being fully honest with someone, and as you have stated and as I already knew it would be neglectful to give him to someone while he is in pain, this was never my intention.

The front nerve blocks are the first thing we shall do I think and then go from there.

He has had his back checked, saddle checked and teeth done etc. He has had a full MOT no expense spared so for you to say I am making a snap decision is a little unfair.

The reason as already stated we were reluctant to go down the further vet enquiry route was because of cost and the fact there may be nothing to be found.

However reassurance that it will not cost the thousands I originally thought is very encouraging and I shall be contacting the vet to get booked in.
Click to expand...

I was petrified about the cost of the bill with mine - but luckily I had a contingency plan in place, should things go wrong. Ask your vet to keep you informed as things progress.

For example, with my boy, I left him at the vets overnight and collected him the next day - cheaper to do that than to have numerous call outs throughout the day as the workup can take quite some time. My vet also kept in touch with me and gave me a running total as we went so I knew where I stood in terms of the cost of the diagnosis, and the cost of the treatment.
 
Sheeps right it's definatly cheaper done at the vets as they can do other things to other horses while they are waiting for the blocks to wear off .
Gives the vet thinking time too and sometimes other vets look in on the work ups and you get more than one brain working on it I much prefer to leave at the vets if possible .
 
Coming from the other side of the fence, as someone who took on an older competition horse with undiagnosed probelms, I think you may well find him a good home, but you will need to select that home very carefully. I bought mine (for £1) and chose to have a full lameness work up done (cost about £600 incidentally) so I knew what I was dealing with. Taking him on was a gamble, as there was no guarantee that he would come right, and I have spent a LOT of money on him - but my reasoning was that it was still less expensive than going out and buying a horse with a consistent record at PSG/Inter 1. iI simply couldn't afford that, whereas I can afford to do the best for the horse I have. He isn't 100% sound all the time, and I have to be very careful with him - but he's fit, happy and enjoys working, and I love riding him. I'm sure most people think Im barmy for taking him on, but I haven't regretted it for a second. He's a crock, but he's a very special crock!
 
It is a hard decision to make especially if you want to continue competing and your horse is no longer capable. Finances are tight for most people so I can understand wanting to get another horse to compete with. If you go down the route of getting another horse put your existing one on loan. He sounds like a fantastic schoolmaster and would be snapped up straight away. You can always keep an eye on him then and make sure that he is happy and well treated. There are fewer guarantees with sale.
Good luck and best wishes.
 
second what others have said: get another vet and spend a few more hundred to try and figure out what is wrong- you never know what they might find.
my boy has been intermittently lame all summer, it would flare up (near hind), and then by the time a vet came a day or two later he would have gone sound, or the diagonal front leg would go lame as it swells on box rest (luckily have found this goes with bandaging when in) the vet did not want to start doing loads of tests with not much to see, but i knew something was not right. next month he went lame again and another vet from same practice came out. she ended up nerve blocking the front leg that had swollen, and then did flextion test, trotting up, lunging, tight circles and then up and down a hill.... a good hour, and then agreed problem with hock. did x-rays, saw arthritis, and injected it.
basically what i'm saying is, some vets may not notice something that another vet might. his lameness was very subtle except sometimes flaring up.
it cost £600, including many x-rays and the injection
 
Can I just say OP, well done for taking this all in a positive way. Sometimes on here you get an answer to a question you didn't ask, or you don't get the answer you'd really like. But that can be the best thing as it leads you down a better track, if you know what I mean?

Best of luck
 
I've just been through similar with an uninsured horse. We had blocks, xrays, meds and coffin joint medicated over 3 visits, including one hospital visit. Whole bill was £700 with a large equine practice and could have got it cheaper if I'd used the yard vet.
I told the vet at the start that the horse was not insured and that I wanted the best use of my money for diagnostics and treatment. The vet was fairly young and instead of automatically thinking along the insurance job route, she had to stop and think what the horse actually needed.
For instance when the joint was medicated, she mentioned that if unsuccessful, an MRI (£500) might be the next step. When I asked how this would affect the treatment and rehab, she had to stop and think for a moment before replying that it wouldn't change anything at all other than give a diagnosis. The outcome would be the same regardless.

OP, get a itemised quote from your vet for each test and possible treatment. With that information you can decide how you want to proceed. Some vets do discounts for uninsured clients or try to work within your budget.


If you really can't afford any more money, then, take the shoes off and give the winter off. Reassess early spring.
 
OP, Big Fuzzy nodded slightly, bute trialled: no difference.
Nerve blocked, only minimal nod on 1 rein.
Then scanned - oh deary me - suspensory over 50% detached.

How the hell that horse had been carrying on, I (and vet) would never know!

Please do get at least nerve blocks done so you can find location of possible problem, them follow up with scan or x'rays if required.
 
Auslander said:
Coming from the other side of the fence, as someone who took on an older competition horse with undiagnosed probelms, I think you may well find him a good home, but you will need to select that home very carefully. I bought mine (for £1) and chose to have a full lameness work up done (cost about £600 incidentally) so I knew what I was dealing with. Taking him on was a gamble, as there was no guarantee that he would come right, and I have spent a LOT of money on him - but my reasoning was that it was still less expensive than going out and buying a horse with a consistent record at PSG/Inter 1. iI simply couldn't afford that, whereas I can afford to do the best for the horse I have. He isn't 100% sound all the time, and I have to be very careful with him - but he's fit, happy and enjoys working, and I love riding him. I'm sure most people think Im barmy for taking him on, but I haven't regretted it for a second. He's a crock, but he's a very special crock!
Click to expand...

Needs to be more people like you around! That's made me smile and restores my faith slightly. I hate the "oh it won't do the job now" throw away culture. Makes me sad.
 
Is the vet saying maybe that the horse doesn't look lame in its body but just has the head nod like a bridle lameness? If yes this may indicate problems in other areas. I've had a horse do this with me and it took us 7 weeks of tests to pin point the problem down to a slightly sharp tooth being pressed by the bridle - the cost for testing for this was 0 pounds, all I did was change his bridle and mark where the old bridle touched, he ended up with sticky tape everywhere but we actually found the tooth this way. Other possibilities are sinus problems. Alternatively back issues or hind leg issues may show as a head nod.

If I were you I would make the most out of each pound spent at the vets. Respectfully ask your vet for a referral to a large equine hospital, set a budget limit and go with the horse on the day as the diagnostic picture emerges from test to test to decide how much you can afford to do next.

Giving him away is not an option IMO. You'd be either risking someone else riding a horse in pain or expecting someone else to pay for your horse of a lifetime.
 
Just another thought. If you have other competition horses you really need some kind of financial plan in place for vets fees, either insurance or setting money aside from not paying insurance premiums. This kind of investigation is very common in all horses but particularly competition horses who are expected to perform under more strenuous conditions.
 
Just to add I was £1500 for one leg nerve blocked to stifle, and X-rays done if stifle joint, plus the flexion tests and work up. And that was 5 years ago! So it does vary greatly!!
 
khalswitz said:
Just to add I was £1500 for one leg nerve blocked to stifle, and X-rays done if stifle joint, plus the flexion tests and work up. And that was 5 years ago! So it does vary greatly!!
Click to expand...

Yikes-that's outrageous!
Alfs work up included flexion tests, trot ups, observations on the lunge and under saddle, xrays of hocks and stifles, scans of both hindlegs, full set of nerve blocks (including suspensory blocks on a different day).
 
Auslander said:
Yikes-that's outrageous!
Alfs work up included flexion tests, trot ups, observations on the lunge and under saddle, xrays of hocks and stifles, scans of both hindlegs, full set of nerve blocks (including suspensory blocks on a different day).
Click to expand...

I still think it came to that because that was my insurance limit... But yeah, I just about cried. He was trotted up, flexioned, worked on lunge, lunged on hard ground and palpated, one leg nerve blocks to stifle and X-rays. Shocking.
 
Claire_N said:
Thank you for your replies -

ihatework - the reason we don't particularly want to spend the money getting him X rayed etc is because the vet was 99% sure that is was not pain related and purely a stupid habit that he has got into that we cant get him out of, the vet was at a loss as to why he was doing it as no lameness showed up in his tests and only offered the nerve blocks etc as routine not as a problem fix. The farrier etc also could see no reason for lameness.



QUOTE]

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, but how on earth can your vet and farrier be sure it's not pain related as there have been no nerve blocks or x-rays? I'd be investing in both to see what the problem really is.
Click to expand...
 
khalswitz said:
I still think it came to that because that was my insurance limit... But yeah, I just about cried. He was trotted up, flexioned, worked on lunge, lunged on hard ground and palpated, one leg nerve blocks to stifle and X-rays. Shocking.
Click to expand...

Bet it would have been less if you had told the vet you weren't insured!
 
Apologies not read all the thread yet. Just like to let you know vets can be wrong, my previous horse had a hard swelling on his face and had resorted to very nappy behaviour, basically anything to get back to the yard which was so not like him. Vets couldn't find anything wrong despite the swelling. I insisted there was something wrong. Long story short went to Leahurst for Gamma Syntigraphy which showed the ending of a root tooth infection - swapped him to a hackamore and hey presto I had my horse back. So please go with your gut instinct, if this is not normal behaviour as you've said only happened recently out of 5 years, then your horse is trying to tell you something is wrong. Does he do it all the time at trot, ridden, loose schooled, in the field?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top