thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
It doesn't cost that much to geld as long as both are there.
I think he should be given the chance if your friend is capable off dealing with him? If not than I would pts.
What to do with a horse you cant ride
- Thread starter nat88
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It doesn't cost that much to geld as long as both are there.
I think he should be given the chance if your friend is capable off dealing with him? If not than I would pts.
canteron
Well-Known Member
Clearly if you friend doesn't have the money/time/desire to work with the horse then PTS is a much better option than selling on.
However, is she is a pathetic person like me, who also has some funds, she may find some potential satisfaction in trying to work with the animal for a bit (as the amazing story above) - then at least if you go for the PTS option you really know that you have given the horse every chance.
In which case, get those goolies off and do all the other medical checks - but importantly a bit of mental stimulation may work wonders, masses of groundwork and also clicker training, as this could be a case of extreme boredom.
In some circumstances Clicker Training is controversial but I truly believe that in this case it may well excercise the horses brain give him something he can do well and make him more relaxed. (and it can be a whole lot of fun and a great bonding tool).
AmyMay
Situation normal
Really? I would have thought we are talking a minimum of £2k
nativetyponies
Well-Known Member
i'd take it to potters and get a few bob.
the OP has said its a full horse and dangerous.
not much else can be done with it.
Gingersmum
Well-Known Member
Gelding will make a huge difference to this horses overall behaviour. I have known horses who were gelded late - even after a career covering mares and they were able to be turned out with other horses and live a normal life.
However, gelding an older horse is a more difficult procedure and the recovery time is longer. The horse can really swell around the operation site and must be exercised to help this swelling go down. He will still have hormones in his system for at least 6 months. It will also be more expensive than a gelding done to a yearing - I think the £2K estimate as above is realistic.
If your friend is prepared to put in this time and money investment she could end up with a good horse but there are obviously risks involved in this project.
Otherwise I would seriously consider PTS as the only practical solution - it would be irresponsible to sell him to just anyone unless they were prepared to invest in his gelding procedure.
Good luck horse - it's not his fault, he is behaving in a perfectly normal horsey way in his situation.
However, gelding an older horse is a more difficult procedure and the recovery time is longer. The horse can really swell around the operation site and must be exercised to help this swelling go down. He will still have hormones in his system for at least 6 months. It will also be more expensive than a gelding done to a yearing - I think the £2K estimate as above is realistic.
If your friend is prepared to put in this time and money investment she could end up with a good horse but there are obviously risks involved in this project.
Otherwise I would seriously consider PTS as the only practical solution - it would be irresponsible to sell him to just anyone unless they were prepared to invest in his gelding procedure.
Good luck horse - it's not his fault, he is behaving in a perfectly normal horsey way in his situation.
gwenllian
Well-Known Member
gelding a stallion will remove a lot of the aggression, the pacing up and down and flighty behaviour.
i have seen mature horses gelded and calm right down, get him cut and turn him out for the winter. some of the problems outlined in the original post were just stallion like behaviour.
my vet has just quoted a friend of mine £240 to castrate a 17 year old stallion, that is under full anasthetic and an over night stay.
it is not expencive, shop around
i have seen mature horses gelded and calm right down, get him cut and turn him out for the winter. some of the problems outlined in the original post were just stallion like behaviour.
my vet has just quoted a friend of mine £240 to castrate a 17 year old stallion, that is under full anasthetic and an over night stay.
it is not expencive, shop around
Ted's mum
Well-Known Member
me too
thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
Yep a stud near us had to geld one off their stallions recently due to problems and that was £280 all in
AndySpooner
Well-Known Member
The cost of a castration seems to be very variable. Are the 2k figures just a guess or are some vets actually charging this?
paulineh
Well-Known Member
Unless there is a physical reason for his behavior I would geld him (Its a good time of the year now to do it).
Once that has been done give him time to recover and then get a Recommended Associate (Monty Roberts) person to help you work with him.
Plenty of ground work will help.
Where is your friend based there maybe someone around that could help.
The use of Essential oils can also help to deal with separation etc
Where did she get him from what was his history.
Once that has been done give him time to recover and then get a Recommended Associate (Monty Roberts) person to help you work with him.
Plenty of ground work will help.
Where is your friend based there maybe someone around that could help.
The use of Essential oils can also help to deal with separation etc
Where did she get him from what was his history.
nativetyponies
Well-Known Member
most stallions post 4 have very well developed testes and the spermatic cord is tougher.
with castrastion of an older horse, the risk of evisceration or hernia is greater, as is hemmorhage, so the Vet would most likely opt for hospitalisation.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Which is where the thousands rather than hundreds come in to it.
Sure - drop a mature horse on the yard with a massive dose of sedative and local - and you may well pay a couple of hundred.
However, I would expect the majority of vets to recommend hospilisation for full GA - which increases the costs significantly.
natalia
Well-Known Member
RE gelding costs for older horses. If this is the horses last chance and she's facing PTS anyway, then I would geld at home, under local and standing (which I have done several times for mature stallions, including those who have covered over 7 yrs old with no problems) if there are any awful complications then pts as you would have done anyway! It will take about 6 months to have a halfway normal horse after gelding an older stallion, sometimes longer. You will also need a very experienced vet to do the procedure, as they need to be sure of what they are doing, hence most vets saying put under GA and hospitalise.
What your friend needs to know is that sadly the root of this horses problems come from it not being allowed to exhibit normal stallion behaviour and from having its nads on. We have all of our stallions cut as soon as they stop covering, or if they aren't going to be used for covering as at least then horse can have a normal life. If it's got such amazing bloodlines we would store some straws just incase. We have a stallion off for grading this weekend and if he fails the vet is already pre booked for next week!
What your friend needs to know is that sadly the root of this horses problems come from it not being allowed to exhibit normal stallion behaviour and from having its nads on. We have all of our stallions cut as soon as they stop covering, or if they aren't going to be used for covering as at least then horse can have a normal life. If it's got such amazing bloodlines we would store some straws just incase. We have a stallion off for grading this weekend and if he fails the vet is already pre booked for next week!
paulineh
Well-Known Member
Is the horse insured.
Sometimes with the recommendation from a vet the horse maybe able to be covered the difference between a standing castration and a hospital one.
Sometimes with the recommendation from a vet the horse maybe able to be covered the difference between a standing castration and a hospital one.
AndySpooner
Well-Known Member
So an experienced vet doing the job standing at home costs £200-£300 where as an inexperienced vet wants a GA and hospitalization for £2000.
nativetyponies
Well-Known Member
bit black and white.
it certainly CAN be done at home but it can, and does have the potential to cause post-op problems in the older animal..i had a 4 yr old castrated at home..he hadnt, AFAIWA sired any stock and he hemmorhaged quite badly post op..the next oldie was taken away and done.
i personally like them done between 9 months and 2 yrs.
i too am waiting to have a 3 yr old inspected next spring..if he fails, he'll be gelded within the week of doing so.
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AndySpooner
Well-Known Member
The only horse I ever lost during a vet proceedure was a TB X Shire who had a GA. The op. was fine despite all the scare mongering about complications, they lost him in the recovery stable when he staggered and broke his neck.
pip6
Well-Known Member
Our stallion, even when he wasn't covering didn't exhibit any of this extreme behaviour, & was reguarly ridden (by me), he was the most perfect ride you could hope to sit on. Is it worth keeping him entire? Get a talented vet & chop him, give him a chance to see if this settles him down. Otherwise, I have known a gelding (early so no hormonal issues) behave exactly like this. After a series of riders who thought they could help/sort him, decided they wanted to live, no matter how talented a jumper he was (& he was amazing the size of fences he could clear with ease, 7' hedge with ditch no issue after he had got rid of that rider & having a jolly around the field). Ended up being pts as so dangerous.
nativetyponies
Well-Known Member
AndySpooner
Well-Known Member
I really do feel that when you have issues like this, its fair to try and sort them as best you can. The issues are primarily best delt with on the ground well before a rider gets involved. I've met a lot of very good riders and a lot of very good trainers, a good rider who is a good trainer is a bit rarer.
Tempi
Well-Known Member
^^^^^ This
Gelding at such a late stage isnt going to make that much difference to his temprement now. If all vet routes have been explored then i would PTS i am afraid.
smellsofhorse
Well-Known Member
If hes been a stallion this long then gelding it wont make much difference but it should still be done!
It sounds like this horse is either in pain of had no discipline and has got away with being naughty most of its life.
It this its unfair to give up on him yet.
Someone will take him on as a project or companion.
Or speak to a charity.
The horses welfare is most important but it sounds like your friend has had enough.
Offer him free, but be careful you dont get the usual weirdos after a free horse, you want a genuine person who wants the best for the horse.
Or as i said go to a charity who will insure he has the best treatment and schooling and will find him the right owner.
It sounds like this horse is either in pain of had no discipline and has got away with being naughty most of its life.
It this its unfair to give up on him yet.
Someone will take him on as a project or companion.
Or speak to a charity.
The horses welfare is most important but it sounds like your friend has had enough.
Offer him free, but be careful you dont get the usual weirdos after a free horse, you want a genuine person who wants the best for the horse.
Or as i said go to a charity who will insure he has the best treatment and schooling and will find him the right owner.
thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
I can't believe it will cost anywhere near £2000 even if they got to hospital. Most are kept over night or a day or two if you went for this option. ( as long as no problems) If people are paying this kind off price, sersiouly change your vet!!!!
Katikins
Well-Known Member
Sorry but I TOTALLY disagree with this and really feel it is very bad advice!! This horse is dangerous, it is the owner's responsibility to make a decision about whether she hast eh time/money/ability etc to work with him and try and sort him out. If she doesn't and goes down one of your suggested routes... well I shudder to think. Most people looking for a project do not mind working with difficult horses but generally prefer to keep their head actually attached to their bodies and as a companion.... my jaw nearly hit the floor at that suggestion. Someone wanting a companion wants something easy to do and look after just to keep their main horse happy. Who in their right mind would take this horse on as a companion?
As for giving it to a charity, again I think highly irresponisble. The charities are there to help with neglect cases etc, not to take on people's dumped horses because they can't be bothered to make a decision about what to do with them! I would much rather their resources went to helping animals in need than taking on people's garbage.
As for those saying that as its a 'healthy horse' so should be given a chance. Its clearly not a healthy horse, just because it is physically fit does not mean it's healthy... it is obviously not healthy in the head, whether that is a result of having his balls or as a result of years of being allowed to get away with whatever he likes.
Personally, I would PTS, if he was still fit for the food chain I'd take him to Potters or similar. Sometimes we need to take our heads out of the clouds and look at the harsh reality - its sad but needs to be done.
AmyMay
Situation normal
It's not the stabling that cost the money. It's the procedure as a whole, which includes a surgeon, nurses, antitheist, drugs, equipment, recovery time - then the stabling and nursing.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Really???? Wish I'd known that before I had my horse pts a fortnight ago..........
And why in anyone's name would a charity take him? He's not a charity case????
pip6
Well-Known Member
With the horse I knew I would say it depends on how much you can afford to spend on a horse as to trying 'trainers'. There was also past history here that a hacking horse these people had sold on a year before (they had owned it about 7 years) became dangerous on ground & ridden. Was pts, the buyers tried to sue vendors, post mortem revealed brain tumour no-one could have known about so case was dropped.
They weren't going to keep this horse (tried for about 5 years to help him) as he was dangerous on the ground & ridden (also big horse so made it worse), & very unpredictable. No way would they sell him knowing they would be putting someones life in danger which I think is a very responsible decision which canonly be commended. They had him pts, & personally I think they did they right thing. Why would it have been a better idea to put a Charity's staff & animals in danger by giving him over??
Give this horse a chance by gelding him (if you can afford to - may not be an option), why would you want to breed from a horse with these issues no matter what the bloodlines (a world beater on paper is no good if he can't do the job). If issues persist after the hormones have gone, consider his quality of life. He seems to be in a permanent state of stress & worry, which can't be good. Surely it's only a matter of time before he injures himself/another horse/a person. It may not be his fault, but it is how he is. Personally I can't see an entire changing his personality, even if gelded. We are meant to take responsibility for our animals, even when it's a very difficult decision. He may have had a very bad start which has turned him into the horse he is, but unless you have a small fortune to spend on trainers trying to rectify his issues, then a decision should be made. How would your friend cope if he injured / killed someone or another horse, which by accounts he could well do?
They weren't going to keep this horse (tried for about 5 years to help him) as he was dangerous on the ground & ridden (also big horse so made it worse), & very unpredictable. No way would they sell him knowing they would be putting someones life in danger which I think is a very responsible decision which canonly be commended. They had him pts, & personally I think they did they right thing. Why would it have been a better idea to put a Charity's staff & animals in danger by giving him over??
Give this horse a chance by gelding him (if you can afford to - may not be an option), why would you want to breed from a horse with these issues no matter what the bloodlines (a world beater on paper is no good if he can't do the job). If issues persist after the hormones have gone, consider his quality of life. He seems to be in a permanent state of stress & worry, which can't be good. Surely it's only a matter of time before he injures himself/another horse/a person. It may not be his fault, but it is how he is. Personally I can't see an entire changing his personality, even if gelded. We are meant to take responsibility for our animals, even when it's a very difficult decision. He may have had a very bad start which has turned him into the horse he is, but unless you have a small fortune to spend on trainers trying to rectify his issues, then a decision should be made. How would your friend cope if he injured / killed someone or another horse, which by accounts he could well do?
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thatsmygirl
Well-Known Member
I dread to think how many horses we have had gelded over the years between the racehorses off all ages and in the stallions which are kept for breeding but some have had to be gelded due to issues. Not one has cost anything like that even the older stallions when their covering life was over. Most where don't at home but a few went in. The only time I can't think that you may get a cost like this is went they or one hasn't dropped down through the ring.
