What to do with a livery who has trashed my fields, and broken her contract?!

K

kittykatcat

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 August 2007
Messages
486
Visit site
Hi all,

Got told on Friday that this livery (sha actually rents a whole block of stables on the yard) was leaving on Monday (today), so she has given me a total of a great, 3 days, despite the fact that in her contract (which she has signed) it clearly states to give a month.

She pays a month in advance, so I am losing out on this months rent, and have had to find this money (for my rent of the yard) out of my own pocket.

She has dealt with the situation really badly - ignoring my calls, only giving me 3 days notice, and before telling me, taking all her tack out of the tack room (presumably so i wouldnt keep it).

As if this isn't bad enough, her horses have COMPLETELY trashed the paddocks that come with the yard - she hasnt managed them at all so there is no grass, absolutely covered in s**t and the horses have succeeded in snapping all of the dividing wooden posts due to her failing to electrify them as agreed when she first moved.

I have been very lenient (in hindsight) with her, as i believed her to be a genuinely nice person.

So...what to do...has anyone taken anything like this to small claims? Should i just wait for her to go and forget it? When i rent for yard out again i WILL be taking references and a deposit!! Live and learn...!

Any ideas welcome :)
 
I can't really offer advice as never been in a situation like that but Just wanted to say good luck and hope you get some good advice and get something sorted.

What a horrible situation and what a horrible livery.

Good Luck :)
 
I dont think small claims would be a good use of your time, for all these culmulative annoyances. Definitely one to grit your teeth and move on from.

If she pays a month in advance and you are keeping the advance money then to me she is paying notice? Insisting she physically stays as well just means more trashing of the land. Did you take a deposit too? the old yard I was on took a months payment as deposit and payment was in advance. That way the damage monies could come out the deposit not the month in advance if they did a flit.

I always wonder why livery yards dont take references from the old yard. Landlords do it for flat tenants. I think its cos YOs often think other YOs are not as nice/good as them so it might be the new person is really nice and really did leave cos YO was a nightmare. Why is sometimes true but not always!
 
Just as an afterthought, for future liveries you take on, don't know how feasible it would be but like if you hire a holiday home or rent as house you have to pay a damages deposit, maybe you could have a one off refundable on leaving damages deposit.

At least if anyone leaves suddenly you have that extra month livery or money to put right any damage.

Just a thought but might be worth considering. :)
 
Yeah definately will ask for a deposit and references for the next person. Had a very awkward conversation with the OH, who couldnt understand WHY i hadnt taken a deposit - i guess it's just not normally the done thing in horses? I've never had to pay a deposit??
 
Ahhhhh. Not good, what a naughty girl.

Does the livery contract have a 'lien' clause re the horse ie that unless all monies are paid you are entitled to a right to the horse? If so Id be padlocking the gate until she pays up!

If not then small claims might have to be the route, if you think its worth the aggro and stress.
 
I have never had to pay a deposit other than first month up front but I would be prepared to do it if I ever moved and was asked to. i wouldn't think it was an unreasonable request.

Refs are a really good idea too. :)
 
kittykatcat said:
Yeah definately will ask for a deposit and references for the next person. Had a very awkward conversation with the OH, who couldnt understand WHY i hadnt taken a deposit - i guess it's just not normally the done thing in horses? I've never had to pay a deposit??
Click to expand...

My old yard was a really good one, and people didnt 'flit', but even so there had always been deposits. When people are keen to come at the start they will be happy to pay it. If the deal breaks down later then it at least protects you.

I dont think they are very unusual but maybe others can advise...
 
''2.9 The Leasee is responsible for paying for or fixing to the same standard any damage incurred to yard property (eg fencing, stables, jumps, poles) by horses stabled in the back yard, the Leasee, or any persons bought to the yard by the Leasee.''
''3.3 In the event that the Fee or any additional sum due under this Agreement remains unpaid for more than three months after they first became due, the Leasee agrees that the Yard may sell any horse stabled in the back yard, provided that written notice has been given to the Leasee (at the address set out at the beginning of this Agreement) of this intention to sell, at least seven days before sale. From the monies received from the sale of the Horse, the Yard may retain such sums as cover of any unpaid sums due under this Agreement and the reasonable costs of sale. Any remaining money shall be returned to the Leasee within thirty days of sale.''

So in order to actually SELL a horse, the contract actually states 3 months, which is a bummer on my part - might have to re-word that for next time! Her horses are all knackered though - literally, so probably selling all 5 wouldnt cover her rent :(

Not sure about the small claims route - not really sure what the process is. Perhaps i'll contact citizens advice? It's not just the rent money though - it's the cost and time that its going to take to replace the snapped wooden posts and clear her field of s**t!!!
 
Hmmmm, it's a difficult one because it depends on how far you're prepared to go. There are avenues of redress here and you have your contract worded so that the damage does have to be repaired.

However, being the sort of person I am, that is, tired of fighting battles all the time, I think I may be tempted to put all her stuff outside the gate, tell her to come get it, have all her horses tied up ready and waiting to go near the yard entrance and get some mates to help you pass them out to her without letting her step foot on the yard.

Then I would be thankful she is gone and make sure I get deposits and monies up front next time, learn from it, and probably camp out at the yard for a bit to make sure she doesn't come back!!!

Not very helpful I'll bet, but I am tired and don't seem to have the energy to cope with this sort of thing any more!! Hope you have more fight left in you, and good luck!!! Let us know how it all goes

xxxxxxxx
 
Tennessee said:
Hmmmm, it's a difficult one because it depends on how far you're prepared to go. There are avenues of redress here and you have your contract worded so that the damage does have to be repaired.

However, being the sort of person I am, that is, tired of fighting battles all the time, I think I may be tempted to put all her stuff outside the gate, tell her to come get it, have all her horses tied up ready and waiting to go near the yard entrance and get some mates to help you pass them out to her without letting her step foot on the yard.

Then I would be thankful she is gone and make sure I get deposits and monies up front next time, learn from it, and probably camp out at the yard for a bit to make sure she doesn't come back!!!

Not very helpful I'll bet, but I am tired and don't seem to have the energy to cope with this sort of thing any more!! Hope you have more fight left in you, and good luck!!! Let us know how it all goes

xxxxxxxx
Click to expand...

seems like a good idea to me. Forget the stress/cost of fighting it in case it leads nowhere and put it behind you, knowing it will never happen again.

Would also put a clause in your conract that any damage to fixtures and fittings that are not general wear and tear are to be put right at the owners expense within 7 days or something like that.

We also have a clause on our livery contract about poo picking and that it must be done regularly. Luckily on our yard, everyone who is there are fantastic with poo picking. You are lucky to see poo before it is whipped away! :)
 
I would prepare an invoice now for the livery due and the damage caused and give it to her before she leaves the yard making reference to the clauses in the contract about notice and repair of damage. If she doesn't pay I think you should then send her a solicitors letter or take it to small claims. She might realise that her reputation in the area is too important not to pay.
 
Sorry, can't really be of much help, but something occurred to me when reading that she hasn't paid Augusts rent yet. Is it possible that something in her circumstances have changed and that she is struggling financially?
 
Yes, she is struggling financially - but perhaps she shouldnt drive around in new cars and have 5 horses? I am now struggling financially having to find her bit of the rent. Sorry, but i'm fed up of 'feeling sorry' for people while they walk all over me!! If she had come to me and said she was struggling, apologised or whatever im sure we could have come to some arrangement, but ignoring my calls, getting really sh**ty when i call her, avoiding me, wrecking my fields and doing bugger all about it and removing her tack before she had told me is, as far as i'm concerned, the act of someone who doesn't give a cr*p!!! Sorry, rant over, but i have been battling with myself NOT to feel sorry for her because normally I am an extremely empathetic person...but i have had enough!! Grrrr!
 
kittykatcat said:
Hi all,


As if this isn't bad enough, her horses have COMPLETELY trashed the paddocks that come with the yard - she hasnt managed them at all so there is no grass, absolutely covered in s**t and the horses have succeeded in snapping all of the dividing wooden posts due to her failing to electrify them as agreed when she first moved.


:)[/QUOTE A couple of points spring to mind. Firstly ,every paddock around here looks a disaster at the moment because of the dry summer.Secondly the fencing sounds as if it was past its best a long time ago. Dont waste your time thinking of small claims court. All it will turn into is a squabble ,and I can guarantee that she will come back with a list of grievances against you.
Click to expand...
 
Mike - the fencing was brand new when she moved in - it's posts and electric tape (P&R around the perimetre but posts and tape dividing into paddocks) all the other horses are fine with it as i have electrified the tape (as i asked her to do when she moved - evidently she didnt). When she moved in, my fields had over a foot of grass, if she had managed them like i asked her to, and like i have done, there is actually quite a lot of grass left. I am lucky in this respect.

I agree i'm not sure a small claims court would be the way forward, but please dont think i am just trying to point the finger and get some new fencing out of this! I'm sesriously being done over and just don't know what's the best plan of action.

As of now, she still hasnt picked the bloomin' horses up and i am so so scared she is going to leave them!!
 
Tbh KKC I wasn't expecting you to feel sorry for her. I was more thinking along the lines that she might have some problems that you were unaware of and she was trying to avoid you through sheer embarrassment or some such like. Sorry that my comments have offended you.....
 
They havent offended me :) and yes she does have problems and she is embarrassed. However, are these reasons to take your tack away before telling me she was going whilst owing me money? Or to not poo pick her field? Or to not replace broken fencing? I think not.
 
Sadly ,this is somthing you will just have to put down to experience. I suspect the damage didnt happen overnight. Appalling field management and fencing are pretty much the norm for 99% of horse owners. Its no good relying on them to take care of it. I can understand your annoyance.
 
I'm starting think i am just going to have to bite the bullet and let it go, which i'm prepared to do, just means i can't eat for the next month - joys!

And yes, i have learnt lots of lessons - stop being so nice to people, and take a deposit and come down on them like a ton of S**t when they dont comply!!

The next worry is if she's actually going to take these horses away!? What the hell do you do then!?!
 
Mike007 said:
Appalling field management and fencing are pretty much the norm for 99% of horse owners.
Click to expand...

Tar and brush... I wouldn't go as far as 99% perhaps 60% would be closer to the mark.

I know some, like myself, who do everything they can. (Ok I admit I am behind on the poo picking at the moment so I am not perfect). We spray, repair fencing, replace fencing, harrow, roll, fertilise, re-seed etc.

I also know some who would rather go on holiday than pull up ragwort...

References. Its the only way to go.
 
References are a jolly good idea - i think the next people who rent the yard will have to have a full blown interview and trial period!!
 
Have you actually spoken to her about her intentions? You need to have a businesslike and rational talk about the state you expect the paddocks and fencing to be left in when she does go and also to make sure you know when she will be taking her horses. Its simple enough to ask her surely.

I think this one goes down to experience and can I suggest that in future if you see things like broken fencing not being replaced or less than thorough poo picking going on that you address it straight away with your tenant rather than letting things get into the state they are now. A decent tenant wont mind you pointing this stuff out and will more than likely adress it and the situation wont arsie again, if you leave it until it looks a complete tip then you are sending the wrong signals.

Prepare a proper invoice now to cover the rent and costs (genuine costs not some made up figure) of replacing or repairing the damage to the fencing plus an amount that will cover your time to clear up the poo. Give it to her and ask her to pay before she leaves. If she doesnt pay up then start down the small claims route.
 
My OH used the Small Claims Court when he was an accountant and people would'nt pay his charges. He says it's very straightforward to use, and 'user-friendly'. If the defendant doesn't turn up (which frequently happens because they know they're in the wrong, or they're just too idle), the judgment often goes your way anyway. And if they're ordered to pay something and don't, the Court has teeth! Very good luck. I'm always amazed at how many bad liveries there are about - tales of moonlight flits, trashing stables etc. Thank god for the lovely ones!!
 
Of course i've tried speaking to her - as i've said previously, she's ignoring me and avoiding me which makes it quite difficult to have a rational conversation! I did get through to her on Sat and asked when she thought she might be up the yard, to which she turned round and said 'what's it got to do with you' and carried on ranting and crying. Now, no doubt she is probably having a hard time at the moment, but i dont see why i should have to take the hit??

When i saw the poo picking and fencing wasnt being done, of course i approached her and said it's not good enough, to which she was extremely apologetic and made me believe she was going to do it. I guess i should have been a bit harder and more persistant but i genuinely believed she was a decent person and was going to do it.

Now i must just emphasise the time scale here, this isnt something that has been going on for months and months - Monday last week she was arranging a show with me, the rest of the week i was chasing her for livery and being avoided, and Friday she turns round and says shes leaving.

I said i was willing to forgo the month's livery as long as her horses were gone by Monday (today) and she returned the yard in the state at which it was rented e.g. impeccable. Now, i think that's pretty reasonable?? Right now, the 3 acre field is still covered in s**t, the horses are still here, and the fencing is still broken. Excuse me for being negative, but is this not a lot to in an afternoon? Especially when she's taken her wheelbarrow away already?!?
 
Thanks for the advice CBF and RF! I might contact the citizens advice and see what they say. I'm not a nasty person and I dont want her blood! Just don't want to be left this much out of pocket, with a yard that I wont be able to rent for a good few months until i save up enough to fix all her damage and clear the mounds of poo!!! :S
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top