What to do with a planter?

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muffinino

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Bit long but background is needed :)
My yearling was very spoilt in his previous home, though not generally agressive or flighty. Never been taught to lead, back up, move over etc. and came from a small private yard with only his dam, and sister + new foal for company. I've had him since Saturday and he's been stabled to give him time to adjust to a busy livery yard, plus I have been teaching him the basics of moving when asked.
This evening, as he seems to have settled in the stable, I took him to have a leg stretch in the school and to get a look at some more of the yard. There is a field with horses in it behind/above the school. He was a little reluctant to leave the stable but came after being gently asked a couple of times. He was very excited going up to the school but pretty well behaved. He had a little trot & canter around the school and a look at the horses, but not too wild and let me catch him easily.

When I went to leave the school he wouldn't budge. I asked him firmly and he tried to whip around to get to look at the others. I stopped him doing that and he got to a foot from the gate and refused to move, even when I tried flicking the rope at his bum. Eventually the YM helped, her making noise, trying to flick a rope at his bum, me trying to lead. We weren't beating him, just a little flick.

He then reared a couple of times and fell over, which I wasn't bothered about as the surface is soft and hopefully the shock of it will deter him from doing it again. Another livery came to help in the end and we tried:
Asking nicely
Asking firmly
Making noises (as in 'walk on' said firmly and loudly)
Walking him side to side
Flicking with a rope
Put a rope around his quarters
Backing him up out of the school
Getting him to move sideways
Cracking a lunge whip (don't worry, he really wasn't scared by any of the firmer tactics)
Touching his heels with a brush

In the end, we got a tarpaulin and shook it, which got him going forwards, and got a horse for him to follow. That was the only thing that made him go forwards. I have never known a horse to plant like this and, believe me, I didn't want to use aggressive methods to get him to move, but he really wouldn't move an inch and was getting tired, so he had to go out of the school. I didn't want to get in to a battle tonight, I do understand why he's behaving like this, but then I also didn't want him to think that he could get away with this sort of nonsense.
I just wanted to know if anyone has had this problem before? If so, what did you do? He is very clingy to horses at the moment because he's on his own, and hopefully he will improve when he goes out (he'll be out 24/7 for the next couple of years). I'm a little worried that he will be worse when I do bring him in from the field once he's out.
 
Did you try a feed bucket in front of his nose? The Spooky Pony used to plant in the gate on the way to Pony Jail. A smack on the rear was only moderately effective, although a broom up the rear did work when tried. But as soon as I started feeding him in Pony Jail, the planting stopped! :D

FWIW, I had massive problems this winter with him planting while hacking. What seems to have worked there is simply waiting him out. A few times sitting and waiting over 1/2 hour, with just gentle nagging, and now he'll just give up and walk on.
 
I did let him relax for five minutes as he was a bit sweaty what with the rearing and the whipping around and the running me over ;) He didn't care and just stood there! I honestly think I would have had to sit there all night before he moved. I'll just have to try for longer next time.

I did think of feed as that is what got him out of the stable when I picked him up, but I don't know why I didn't try it tbh, I think I just wanted to see if he would move. He's not that greedy, really (unlike my other cob, who would kill his own grandmother for a jam doughnut!) and gets a handful of chaff as a bit of comfort in the morning and evenings, but he is partial to the orange things. I will go armed with carrots tomorrow but as he'd been good initially, I didn't think it would be a major problem.

Lesson is, don't buy a Welsh cob!
 
Is this the first time he has been truly separated from other horses? If so he may be very anxious, of course if he is stabled with others then he has no excuse but if not, well maybe he was excited and relieved to see horses again.

Please may we have some pictures of him? I love Welshies, even if the are stubborn.
FDC
 
Honestly you may think I am completly nuts or stupid (or both) saying this but I have just used a horse communicator on my rearing pony. I was very skeptic and didn't have any faith but the results have just been fantastic and I think even if it doesn't solve the problem you may get to see 'his' side of the story which may allow you to treat the problem differently. PM me for details if you are interested and I will tell you cost and answer any questions for you. My pony has just gone from 'needing shot' to workable and competing. Seems like a miracle to me and I cant explain how they do it. I am only sorry I didnt try sooner.
 
you could try this it seems to work for my boy when he plants. stand in front of him with contact on the rope & then pull & release the rope, his head should nod keep doing this while saying walk on, my boy seems to hate this & gives in after a few seconds of doing it, worth a try & saves going back for a bucket!
 
If it was me, I'd put a long lead rope on him, 12' so if he rears up again you are out of the way.

I'd go back in the school again, like you did before and repeat the process exactly, and see if he stops and plants again when you try to walk him out.

If he does, I'd open the gate up wide, and prop it open if you have to, then I'd swing the rope in a circular motion slowly at his drive line, which is just before the shoulder.

When he moves out of the school, which he will, though it may take a while, I'd go back in the school with him and try to bring him out again. If he plants, repeat the process.

Keep doing this until he follows you out of the school without any resistance.

This may take quite a few times before he does it comfortably, but you must keep going till he does. You must do all this in one session until he walks comfortably in and out, it takes as long as it takes. When he is relaxed and just walking in and out finish.

This will cure him for good, there may be the odd hicup but just repeat the process and he will comply after a few minutes.

If he decides to up the anti, rearing and all that nonsense, you would be better off not trying to contain it, but you may need a longer line 22', let him go up and wave your arms at him with lots of energy, when he stops, you stop and relax. Match what he's doing, sounds a bit off the wall, but most folk try to contain the horse and that just creates a ticking bomb. There is an advert for something in a supermarket where a kid plays up and the mother throws herself on the floor and has a tantrum like the kid and the kid stops. Its funny but the principle is the same.

Anyway, hopefully he won't up the anti and he'll just work through it. Rearing is just a horse being a horse, the best way to create a rearing horse is to try and stop him doing it.

I'm not in favour of trying to spook him to go forward, you may cause him to be really spooky about stuff behind him, or put ropes round his back end as he will move into the pressure and he'll end up wanting to reverse.

If you use food to tempt him, you can sometimes end up with a horse that will only follow a bucket and then only when he feels like it.
 
Thanks all for the answers, appreciated :)

FDC: It is the first time he's been seperated and I know it was clinginess, but then he was the same when I went to pick him up - 40 minutes to get him out of the stable and in the end I tempted him with chaff. He's never really been led anywhere and this doesn't help! I did feel a bit sorry for him tbh as I understand why he was doing it, but that doesn't mean I will put up with planting, rearing and barging me over as he will be dangerous when he's older if he can get away with it now. He was the breeder's spoilt little prince, the first foal they bred, so he has had a massive shock in the move and actually being asked to do things, love him. I've done everything quietly and given him a chance every time, but last night was just out of order. I'm worried that I've asked too much too soon :( but he's going out on the weekend and I wanted him to have the chance to look around a bit more first.

allieb: I tried this and moving him sideways, but as he's never been taught to lead, or at least, only by me in the stable (he's fine there, btw, will move back, over and forwards, but he's comfortable there), and unfortunately has already learnt that planting works for him.

JM: I will admit to being very cynical ;) but I don't think the rearing is due to something bad happening, he's a bit of a spoilt brat is all. I do think that it's partly because the last owners were very soft and possibly a bit nervous, so if he went up or planted I don't think they would have done anything. I think he's done the rearing thing before because it wasn't just a little one, it was straight up in the air. He fell over once and I pulled him over once, he didn't do it again so I hope he's learnt that lesson. *Disclaimer* I pulled him over because he tried to twist away as he did it, so I pulled the rope back to get his head towards me and stop him b*ggering off when he came down. He was in an enclosed area and the surface is sand & rubber, so there wasn't much chance of him hurting himself. He really wasn't bothered but didn't rear again and let me catch him every time he got away, silly pony.

AS: Thanks for that, very helpful. When you say swing the rope towards his drive line, do you mean to get him to move backwards or sideways? Stand in front of him or to the side? I was trying to picture it but am not quite with it this morning. I was just about to go and get my lunge line when YM turned up with ahorse - it was getting late and it's her birthday today, so she didn't want to be there all night and as it is hr school, I was willing to try anything. I get what you're saying about matching him, good idea. I klet him go up then pulled him towards me, which did stop him from running away but I'll try what you suggest with that. I was a bit worried that he'd get sppoked by things behing him, but he honestly couldn't have cared less about most of it, still, it's not ideal. I know what you mean about food, I didn't really want him to just follow that, but I will get some carrots to reward him when he does as he's asked.
 
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