What to do with a rig... WWYD?

fuze

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Question, really, is in the title.

I bought a 6yo 14hh cob in September. Friendly, cheeky, hacks alone or in company, bombproof in traffic and open spaces, but still green. He is 100% all of those, however suspicions and tests have shown that he's also a true rig.

He's not aggressive, he's not nasty, and he can be turned out with boys without too much of a mis-hap (though he can be dominant and mounts). He paces fencelines regularly, he shouts a lot, he terrorises any mares that pass his field. He snorts, prances and parades both in-hand and under saddle, particularly around horses he doesn't know, and the minute he's given an inch under those circumstances, you may aswell be pulling on a freight train - he will go through anything in his way be they people, doors, other horses, etc. He'll hack sensibly with mares with a firm rider, but again, he has to be kept in check at all times. The minute you lose his concentration, you have a problem on your hands.

We've explored the option of surgery - his insurance policy won't cover the procedure, and I'm not in a position whereby I can afford to have it done out of my own pocket. I'm not able to keep him entirely isolated due to facilities, and I'm struggling to find a yard that will accommodate such for a rig. Due to our fields being completely trashed, he's stabled 24/7 at present which is sapping away even more of the funds I don't have, and it's pressuring me to make a decision.

The question: What would you do with him? Persevere and see how bad his behaviour becomes in Spring? Rehome him (but what are the chances of finding someone to take a rig regardless)? PTS (which seems like potentially the most responsible option...)? Before anyone suggests, his old owner will not take him back.

Help please... what would you do? :(
 

be positive

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I would borrow or beg the money and have the op done .


This and if he is as good as you say then if you have to sell him to cover the cost of the op you should be able to do so and find a good home. It may be worth phoning around for quotes the cost of operations can vary so much, a vet school may offer to do it at lower cost if students can be involved.
 

Goldenstar

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As someone's who spent most of her life penniless over her horse obsession that's horses .
Do you have a quote from the vet ?
 

TandD

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If you can deal with his stallion style behaviour and is the right horse for you then I would be managing it. I would be gaining his respect on the ground.... So he doesn't snort, prance etc and teach him these are not acceptable behaviours when you are 'attached' to him and especially when you are on him!!!Stallions learn this so I don't see why he can't.

You will have to up your game and be one step ahead of him....basically treat him as a stallion. I'm currently caring for a very late cut gelding.... I always need to be aware who's about, what's going on and am I going to end up in a situation where his stallion-ness comes through?

edit....this isn't me suggesting you don't do the op...quite the opposite...however you may end up with a horse that's not really changed in behavior!
 

windand rain

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Hmmmm is there anywhere you can rent a field with good fencing until you can afford the op. His life will possibly shortened as it is common for the lost testicle to become cancerous. Try the vet schools they will sometimes let the students operate under supervision cheaper than a horspital Can you afford the ultrasound to find the lost bits they could be just below the surface and easily found and removed for a couple of hundred the same as gelding him Are you sure he was gelded at all if he was who did it as they may be pressured into doing a better job
 

honetpot

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I had a Welsh A done and it cost £450 all including hospital fees. I would ring round and get some quotes and put on a credit card with 0%. You could also see if a vet would give him some sedation to see if it would drop down far enough to get hold of it.
I suppose it depends on how good a pony he is, and if you want to spend that amount on him. Its going to be a miserable life for him long term if he is not castrated properly.
 

Echo Bravo

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I agree with the above, I have a youngster that had a retained testicle and to have him done was just about a £1000 and he's not insured, the retained one was up near his kidneys and they managed to get everything out. And yes they can get cancerous, lost my Sam (lab) because he had the same problem only we didn't realise that it could cause cancer, and lost him at an early age because of it.
 

smellsofhorse

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He sounds like he is manageable with the right handling and conditions.

I know you said you have looked but ideally find a more suitable yard.

Long term he really needs the op done.
Save or borrow.
call round for quotes and be honest with the vets, it amazing how they can knock the costs down when they know you are on a budget!
 
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mummymole

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You really should get it looked into as they tend to be cancerous if left inside horse .Mine was tested at vets and then spent a week at RVC had 2 taken out of his stomach ,cost £700 not on insurance as they don't cover it but i took a small loan out at time as i thought it would cost a lot more but my vet was brilliant and they used operation as a student training exercise .I got it cheaper for allowing students to watch .I would get the tests done and find out what scale you are looking at ,i put mine on JAMES HART CUSHY LIFE which contains agnus castus (chaste berry ) really took the edge off until he had op and had to be lead in chifney at all times .Unfortunately old habits die hard and he still even now he is gelded has to be lead in a bridle .I was told with mine when i collected him from RVC /no turn out with mares for 7 days as basically he was entire !!!!!! so be careful as when mares in season electic fence means nothing to get to a mare .
 
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mummymole

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Also when i brought mine AS A GELDING trading standards will deal with it . they told me i could take previous owner to court and either one of us could end up with pony but she would have had to refund me as legally he wasn't what i thought i had brought .We decided we didn't want to take chance of losing ours but if thats what you want it def worth looking into ...Tell old owner it s amazing what happens when people think you are actually going to do something legal . good luck
 

Bosworth

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This horse needs either the operation or put to sleep. You have had him over the best time of the year for a rig. Hormones really start in Ernest in spring and with mares in season he will become more and more dangerous, it is far easier to manage a stallion than a rig. You cannot treat him as a stallion he is far more hormonal than that. Do not trust him an inch with anyone or anything.
 

ridefast

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A rig is not the same as a stallion, the testicles are not supposed to be at body temperature therefore his behaviour will be much more erratic as the heat will be affecting the testosterone. If left untreated the retained testicle will become cancerous too. Either have the op done - most vets should offer you a payment plan for an expensive procedure - or have him pts.
 

maree t

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What a nightmare, i think I would have to beg or borrow the money and get him sorted. He is not going to have much of a happy life by the sounds of it without getting it sorted .
I would try and badger the people who sold him to you for perhaps at least a contribution towards costs.
A good honest chat with your vet would be a good start . He might have alternative ways such as teaching operation .
Hope yu get it sorted
 

Goldenstar

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This horse needs either the operation or put to sleep. You have had him over the best time of the year for a rig. Hormones really start in Ernest in spring and with mares in season he will become more and more dangerous, it is far easier to manage a stallion than a rig. You cannot treat him as a stallion he is far more hormonal than that. Do not trust him an inch with anyone or anything.

It's simply not reasonable IMO to PTS a young heathy horse because he needs a procedure that should unless it's very unlucky leave him able to lead a long and healthy life .
Owning a horse is a lot about luck the good and the bad this is a large bit of bad luck .
If I was OP I would working out how to find the money ( even if that meanlt selling the horse after the op ).
I second the person who said talk to the vet it is amazing what can be done with costs I had a broken leg repaired at a vet school for just over £1000 as a student training exercise horse was as good as new .
I also agree about the timing , this needs to done before spring because if you don't have your own place it's going to difficult to find a yard to take him .
 

cambrica

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I really don't like the sound of any of the options you have given yourself.
I certainly wouldn't just persevere and would do my best to sort out before spring.
Rehoming isn't an option unless it's to a charity that also has the facilities to carry out the operation. Possibly you could apply for financial assistance from a charity?
Pts :( sorry but I really do not agree. My old mare had an ovarian tumour that made her very stallion-like. It was removed successfully and cost about £1200. I came to an arrangement with my vets to pay back monthly although I managed to pay back quite quickly. A large vet bill can come up at any time but pts should really be when all other options are exhausted.
Were the previous owners at all aware? It might be worth finding out if they had the original castration done or had tests at anytime. This isn't something that may or may not have come on since you bought him! I would be seeking a financial contribution.
I really hope you can find a solution as he sounds like a wonderful horse. Hoping it all works out for you. X
 

fuze

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Thanks for replies.

if you have to sell him to cover the cost of the op you should be able to do so and find a good home.

His worth in the current market would come nowhere near the cost of the op :(

Do you have a quote from the vet ?

Around the 2k mark.

I would be gaining his respect on the ground.... So he doesn't snort, prance etc and teach him these are not acceptable behaviours when you are 'attached' to him and especially when you are on him!!!

I'm on that. He's not led anywhere without a be-nice halter and a whip - I've really cracked down on his behaviour and he is reprimanded for any behaviour that isn't acceptable. The issue remains that it's made little difference, once you lose his focus, you could slam half a tonne of bricks into him and not get a response.

Hmmmm is there anywhere you can rent a field with good fencing until you can afford the op.

I'm looking into it, though most places are reluctant to even consider him.

I had a Welsh A done and it cost £450 all including hospital fees. I would ring round and get some quotes and put on a credit card with 0%.

Do you mind me asking where you had it done?? Credit card isn't an option, unfortunately.

agnus castus (chaste berry ) really took the edge off until he had op and had to be lead in chifney at all times .Unfortunately old habits die hard and he still even now he is gelded has to be lead in a bridle

Agnus Cactus had no effect on him. I thought that Rigcalm had no effect either, but having left it out for a few days it obviously does. The behaviour stated in the OP is WITH Rigcalm. He's worse without.

they told me i could take previous owner to court and either one of us could end up with pony but she would have had to refund me as legally he wasn't what i thought i had brought .

I've been down that road. As she doesn't work, she won't pay anything.

You have had him over the best time of the year for a rig. Hormones really start in Ernest in spring and with mares in season he will become more and more dangerous, it is far easier to manage a stallion than a rig. You cannot treat him as a stallion he is far more hormonal than that. Do not trust him an inch with anyone or anything.

A rig is not the same as a stallion, the testicles are not supposed to be at body temperature therefore his behaviour will be much more erratic as the heat will be affecting the testosterone. If left untreated the retained testicle will become cancerous too. Either have the op done - most vets should offer you a payment plan for an expensive procedure - or have him pts.

I know... these are what concern me, and why PTS is on the list.

What a nightmare, i think I would have to beg or borrow the money and get him sorted.
I would try and badger the people who sold him to you for perhaps at least a contribution towards costs.
A good honest chat with your vet would be a good start . He might have alternative ways such as teaching operation .

The money isn't there to beg or borrow. I work as an apprentice - I've already had a 4k vet bill in the last 12mths. The op was only an option if the insurance would pay, and they've refused on the grounds that it's a "pre-existing condition". Vet has stated that surgery is the only option they will recommend.

It's simply not reasonable IMO to PTS a young heathy horse because he needs a procedure that should unless it's very unlucky leave him able to lead a long and healthy life .
Owning a horse is a lot about luck the good and the bad this is a large bit of bad luck .
If I was OP I would working out how to find the money ( even if that meanlt selling the horse after the op ).

What are the chances of the op actually working, really? The undecended testicle can't be found on scans, there are no guarantees that they will be able to find it, the risk of surgery regardless and the fact that the behaviour isn't likely to just "vanish". I've had a huge chunk of bad luck in the past 12mths, and if I hadn't paid out for a 720 degree twisted gut, I would pursue the option of surgery. Under current circumstances, I just can't.

I really don't like the sound of any of the options you have given yourself.
Were the previous owners at all aware? It might be worth finding out if they had the original castration done or had tests at anytime. This isn't something that may or may not have come on since you bought him! I would be seeking a financial contribution.

Me either. See above, old owner is now hiding her head in the sand, refusing to pay anything back, and refusing to contact my solicitor.

Pony is insured as I KNEW I couldn't afford another big vet bill anytime soon. Just my luck that the insurance have bailed on this.
 

SatansLittleHelper

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Why did you end up with a 4k vets bill for colic if he is insured??
It sounds to me that you have already made your mind up about putting him to sleep to be honest. I appreciate that the op might not be cheap but there are always payment plans. It's more a question of how much you think of this horse...and I'm really not trying to be patronising but only you know what the situation is :)
 

ridefast

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I should think if the op is successful the behaviour should decrease over time, I have a gelding who was cut late and judging from his behaviour when purchased had been used as a stallion, but after a few years he would happily turn out with mares and geldings with no issues. Yours hasn't been used as a stallion I assume, so his behaviour is entirely as a result of hormones.
 

wallykissmas

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If you have no option to beg or borrow and don't want to pts then I would be looking for a field for him to be on his own until you can afford the op. I don't envy you and wish you luck.
 

fuze

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Why did you end up with a 4k vets bill for colic if he is insured??
It sounds to me that you have already made your mind up about putting him to sleep to be honest. I appreciate that the op might not be cheap but there are always payment plans. It's more a question of how much you think of this horse...and I'm really not trying to be patronising but only you know what the situation is :)

Egh. My last boy wasn't insured. He was my horse of a lifetime, that I broke in from scratch and had fought through hell and high water to get him to where he was (after him crushing my confidence and building us both up from rock bottom). I worshipped the ground he walked on, he went down with colic, in the middle of a showground, a month before his 6th birthday. I owed it to him to try, he went through a 5hr op and woke up after the procedure. 9hrs after the onset, I received a phonecall from the surgeon telling me that his heart had failed, and they couldn't resuscitate. (Some of you may remember this thread, posted the day after... http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/foru...y-beautiful-boy-how-quickly-things-can-change) That is the reason I insured the following neddy, because trying to save Rods wiped my bank account into serious minus figures.

I haven't made my mind up, but I guess PTS doesn't seem so horrific after what happened mid-2013. I guess I'm just a little numbed from it all. Whatever.

have you spoken to vet about paying bill of in instalements ? just a thought . And shop around

No... the vet assured me that the insurance would cover the op. As it turns out, they contradicted themselves and sided with the insurance company. I haven't heard from the vet since the verdict. I will make some phonecalls, however... I just don't know where I would find the money, in all honesty.
 

fuze

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Yours hasn't been used as a stallion I assume, so his behaviour is entirely as a result of hormones.

Sorry, missed this one. Yes, I've been told he was used as a stud. Blood tests have confirmed the retained testicle too, so we have it from both sides.
 

Orangehorse

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Can't you simply return the pony to the previous owner, stating he was not fit for purpose, i.e. a riding animal due to being a rig. Although you will loose the purchase price, at least he wouldn't be costing you any more.

What is the flaw in this solution, there must be one.
 

fuze

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Im not sure where in the country you are but could a charity like this not help? http://www.aht.org.uk/
Or I'm sure there are others that would be able to help in some way.

I have no idea... thanks for that one though, I will look into it :)

Can't you simply return the pony to the previous owner, stating he was not fit for purpose, i.e. a riding animal due to being a rig. Although you will loose the purchase price, at least he wouldn't be costing you any more.

What is the flaw in this solution, there must be one.

She won't have him back, and has vanished off the face of the earth since me requesting such. That was the ideal, really.
 
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