What to do with a rig... WWYD?

[TandD]

Little thing I learnt while working at the vets....

The same treatment of anything is always substantially more (sometimes ££££'s) when your horse has insurance. And when you don't have insurance most vets will always try to 'do it on the cheap' for you when it can be applied.......this may possibly be a situation that this can be implemented. I highly advise calling round and getting quotes from different people with and without insurance..... You never know! You may find a vets that will do it at a reasonable price!

 

[Kelly1982]

It will get better with firm handling and maintenance. I have got a gelding who was cut late and he was a nightmare at first and had anxiety issues to add to it. His last owner was advised to PTS as she couldn't control him. Her non horsey boyfriend had to handle him as he was the only one who could hold onto him. He was also on a calmer which made no difference.

He was the same as your boy as in once he was in a certain frame of mind nothing you done made a difference. He would run straight through you, throw himself at stable doors. I could of beat him black and blue if I had wanted to (I didn't but I could have) and he wouldn't of noticed.

I moved him to a yard where mares and geldings were split. Put him in the end stable so the only horse he could get attached to was my mare (he has never really been bothered by her luckily) and got him into a routine. I also worked him 6 days a week even if it was just a plod round the block to keep his mind active.

18 months on and he is more or less 'normal'. He does call occasionally when I ride my mare and gets a bit upset if I change his routine but he is MUCH more manageable. People don't believe it when I tell them what he was like as he is probably one of the best behaved horses on the yard.

So is there no way you could maintain this issue until you have saved enough money to get the op done and also in the meantime shop round for the best deal?? It seems a shame to have a young horse PTS because of something that can be rectified and is not his fault. Failing that I would try to find him an experienced home and rehome him to someone who maybe can afford the op.

 

[Spring Feather]

Speak to your vet and ask if he would accept payments for the crypto surgery. Vets are usually quite accommodating and the cost is usually far less anyway when they know you are paying without the aid of insurance and that you can't afford it all upfront. Many vets have payment plan contracts specifically for these sorts of situations and they will try to help you out, particularly if you are a good client.

Have to say, it would never in a million years cross my mind to have a horse killed because of this. I'd just have the surgery done. I had a cryptorchid a few years ago and the cost was 1,500. I still own the horse all these years later and he's just the most delightful fella ever.

 

[mummymole]

Ours had op in 2009 and is now amazing although it did take 8 months for behaviour to settle down .Bear in mind i brought this pony for my dressage mad daughter as a 3 yr old with castration scar tissue .When i contacted previous owner as to when he was cut as thought maybe was just hormones running high for a while she was totally evasive ,i threatened her with court ,which you can do even if she pleads poverty she would have to pay you back in installments .Ours was a nighmare before the op you couldn't lead him without a chifney and when the mares came into season he was very dangerous i remember leading him pawing the air above my head ,curling me up striking and biting. He pooed all round the perimeter of his field and was ghastly over stable door .My vet came to do his teeth and was shocked by his dominance and advised me to test .He went off the scale and when he had op (he was Crypto orchid )he had a huge testicle in one side of tummy and a smaller one entangled the other side ,since he had scar tissue from a castration it makes you wonder what happened to him perhaps he had 4 ?...He is still a handful as Riggs are much worse than stallions and the biting is still ongoing but angeligic to what he was .Talk to your vet don't just write this poor horse off .I'm sure they will work you out a repayment plan.I think it's par for the course that if you have horses they are expensive when things go wrong but i think you should do the right thing and get this boy sorted out .I had to take a loan out which i couldn't really afford but i managesd some how .good luck

 

[Tracy1967]

Have you requested previous owner take the pony back with no refund? If charity or PTS is on the cards surely that would be a better option. If he is as good as you say he deserves a chance by someone and not to be put to sleep.

 

[touchstone]

I'm another who'd say give him a chance as he sounds 100% in all other ways. You could go and buy a horse that isn't 100% and it could potentially cost a lot of money to put right, plus he will be potentially worth a fair bit once schooled and sorted, you could always sell on to help clear your debts if needed.

I'd definitely ring round vets and get quotes; I recently had an uninsured cat to the vets (bit different I know!) and they did everything as cheaply as possible, including a free chest x-ray.

If the funding really can't be found, then I'd agree that pts is probably the best option.

 

[Zebedee]

OP I don't know where you are but google Gabriel and Grills who are vets in Plymouth. They did a rig op on one of mine a few years ago. It was tricky one, but they got the lot and the bill was less than half of what our own vets in Cornwall and Liphook had quoted. We dropped the pony off during the morning and picked him up later on in the day.

PTS is far from unthinkable if other options don't work out. On the whole rigs do not lead happy lives. They are restless and frustrated, and very very tricky to handle. The other thing you might consider is selling him on as he is at a very cheap price with his condition fully documented. The problem with that is of course that he could end up in a market being sold as a childs pony.

The option to return to owner is still there - just because she doesn't work / has no money doesn't make her exempt from the sale of goods act.

 

[fuze]

Sorry guys, it's been a long week.

I moved him to a yard where mares and geldings were split. Put him in the end stable so the only horse he could get attached to was my mare (he has never really been bothered by her luckily) and got him into a routine. I also worked him 6 days a week even if it was just a plod round the block to keep his mind active.

He's on a yard where mares and geldings are split - I dread to think what would happen if he were ever put in with a mare. He has the end (back) stable in an indoor barn set up, to minimise having mares and such led past him. He's in a routine, worked as much as possible, and it's winter... so I'm pretty sure this is as good as the behaviour is going to get. In fairness to him, when he's stabled and there's no mare movement, you really wouldn't guess what he was.

Speak to your vet and ask if he would accept payments for the crypto surgery. Vets are usually quite accommodating and the cost is usually far less anyway when they know you are paying without the aid of insurance and that you can't afford it all upfront. Many vets have payment plan contracts specifically for these sorts of situations and they will try to help you out, particularly if you are a good client.

Have to say, it would never in a million years cross my mind to have a horse killed because of this. I'd just have the surgery done. I had a cryptorchid a few years ago and the cost was 1,500. I still own the horse all these years later and he's just the most delightful fella ever.

The quote (knowing that my insurance won't pay) stands at 2k with my vet - no allowances were made for the fact that the insurance aren't paying.

Have you requested previous owner take the pony back with no refund? If charity or PTS is on the cards surely that would be a better option. If he is as good as you say he deserves a chance by someone and not to be put to sleep.

I have no contact for the owner, now. She's blocked me from contacting her on the internet, and she won't answer calls / texts / other correspondence. She claims she can not have him back, that she's not in the wrong, and that she didn't know (I have proof she at least had strong suspicions). The only option for pursuing her would be to take it straight to the courts, and I know she'll just continue to bury her head.

I've gotta admit, giving him back to her free of charge when she's ripped me off like she has makes me sick to my stomach.

.I had to take a loan out which i couldn't really afford but i managesd some how .good luck

I can't get a loan...

I'm another who'd say give him a chance as he sounds 100% in all other ways. You could go and buy a horse that isn't 100% and it could potentially cost a lot of money to put right, plus he will be potentially worth a fair bit once schooled and sorted, you could always sell on to help clear your debts if needed.

I'd definitely ring round vets and get quotes; I recently had an uninsured cat to the vets (bit different I know!) and they did everything as cheaply as possible, including a free chest x-ray.

If the funding really can't be found, then I'd agree that pts is probably the best option.

I know. At most he's going to be worth what, 1k? In current market? That doesn't even cover half of surgery fees (I'm looking round at other quotes, but going on the one I have). Any horse will come with issues, but all my plans for this guy have gone down the pan - I'm not going to be able to take him out and about with his current behaviour. He's a nightmare if we bump into other horses while we're out (to a point of scaring people we've been hacking with), so I can imagine show grounds or fun rides would involve a deathwish.

OP I don't know where you are but google Gabriel and Grills who are vets in Plymouth. They did a rig op on one of mine a few years ago. It was tricky one, but they got the lot and the bill was less than half of what our own vets in Cornwall and Liphook had quoted. We dropped the pony off during the morning and picked him up later on in the day.

PTS is far from unthinkable if other options don't work out. On the whole rigs do not lead happy lives. They are restless and frustrated, and very very tricky to handle. The other thing you might consider is selling him on as he is at a very cheap price with his condition fully documented. The problem with that is of course that he could end up in a market being sold as a childs pony.

The option to return to owner is still there - just because she doesn't work / has no money doesn't make her exempt from the sale of goods act.

I'll look them up, thank you. My concern re: rehoming is him being passed around, and where he would actually end up. Kept under control, he's okay, but I wouldn't put it past him to seriously hurt a child. Again, not nastiness, he just loses his head and doesn't think (okay, he does, just not with his brain).

See above regarding previous owner. The only pursuit would be court - or knocking on her door and giving her a smack. lol.

 

[juliette]

One quick suggestion, as I keep my horse at a friend's and she has a 20 year old rig - always, always lead in a bridle. If her pony is in a headcollar of any description he is very naughty and used his strength against you. A bridle, he leads like a lamb as he knows you have control.
Ground work with him in a bridle is worth a try, it has worked wonders with my friend's horse.

 

[zigzag]

Ring around a few vets and ask what the cost would be if you paid in cash, you may find a difference ifthey can just pocket it, if you can't afford it and can't get in debt for it (and I wouldn't) there is no shame in PTS. OR ask the people on here who say "You can't PTS" to donate some money to you ....

 

[Tracy1967]

Ring around a few vets and ask what the cost would be if you paid in cash, you may find a difference ifthey can just pocket it, if you can't afford it and can't get in debt for it (and I wouldn't) there is no shame in PTS. OR ask the people on here who say "You can't PTS" to donate some money to you ....

How can you say there is no shame to put a healthy young horse to sleep when there are obviously other options, there are people who will take on a rig, there are charities etc I don't think PTS should be talked about so lightly! Especially when this pony obviously is well behaved and good in other ways as stated previously. I had no idea people were so quick to put a healthy animal to sleep without exploring every other option. Maybe there is someone who would take him on train him and then give him the op as he can hack alone etc obviously rideable and useable to someone who is prepared for it. Also surely it'd cost more to have the animal put to sleep than to find him a home and asking people to donate just because they don't want PTS to happen is quite silly.

 

[LittleRooketRider]

have you only tried rigcalm?
have a try with a few others....I haven't got a pot to hand but if i remember correctly Oestress can also be used on riggy geldings and I know it worked a treat on my talented but very temperamental mare. or perhaps you need something "stronger" eg. a stallion calmer of some sort

...probably best if you give your vet a call and ask for some advice/recommendations

 

[applecart14]

Question, really, is in the title.

The question: What would you do with him? Persevere and see how bad his behaviour becomes in Spring? Rehome him (but what are the chances of finding someone to take a rig regardless)? PTS (which seems like potentially the most responsible option...)? Before anyone suggests, his old owner will not take him back.

Help please... what would you do?

Many years ago (1999) my horse was accused of mounting geldings in the field as rugs were being torn and withers were being bitten. He was gelded as a seven year old and was nine when he came to me. Everyone blamed him so I had him bloodtested and he came back as negative for a true rig although it was quite possible he could still be a false rig (true rig when they retain testicular matter, false when its in their head due to late gelding). My YO made my horse stay on box rest. During this time I tried to prove it wasn't my horse that had done this to tthe others but he had to stay in all through the summer, many weeks and months. To cut a long story short the vet suggested an injection of depo provera - a hormone drug that can bring on abortion in mares and that is given to geldings to inhibit stallion behaviour. I agreed on the injections as I was desperate for my horse to be intergrated back with his friends although both me and the vet didn't think it was my horse to blame for the injuries. I had to sign a disclaimer as it was unlicesed in horses only humans in this country at the time.

My horse had two injections whilst at that yard and then another injection at the new yard we eventually moved to.

My horse dropped down dead of a supected heart attack some ten months on. Whilst I could never prove that the injection was the reason he suffered a heart attack nor could I dissprove it.

So my advice would be that if you are offered this drug and it is still unlicensed for use in horses then I would think very carefully about whether to go for this option if you are offered it by your vet. So if you are unable to afford the surgery then I wonder if you would have a claim against the vets taht carried out the procedure, presumably on behalf of the previous owners as they have obvioulsy not done the surgery correctly it is assumed. If you can not claim for this then I wonder if you have a claim against the vendors as they sold you the horse fit for purpose.

I would take legal advice from a firm of equine solicitors to see where you stand (if you do at all).

 

[Tracy1967]

Any improvements on your situation?