what to do with incontinent old dog.

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lilly1

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14yo bitch has had urine incontinent issues for a couple of years now. Some seeping while sleeping and squatting on the floor. Its got worse over this period and I cant remember the last time she went a day / night without an accident. Despite me being at home a lot and getting up at least twice in the night with her, accidents are frequent and several times during a 24 hour period.

She's had various tests over time, Last years bloods were fine as are recent ones taken. All blood tests are within the normal ranges. As well as the usual she's been tested for Addisons and Diabetes. We've tried a prolonged course of AB and various medication, no change. There is clearly something wrong as she drinks too much and her urine is very diluted. Vet has suggested testing her for Atypical cushings, more to rule this out though as her symptoms are not typical of the disease. Other possible cause is insipidious diabetes, rare and no test for this. Apart from the medication costing more per month than my mortgage, I've been told she may not be responder to treatment (assuming it is this), nor likely to respond to any medication for atypical cushings (assuming its that).

Its a nightmare situation and causing major its me or the dog arguments at home. If she was otherwise unwell I'd pts but she's not. This is a dog that's super sharp, high energy and shows little sign of old age. She shows no distress in having accidents, far from it, she walks round like lady in the manor.

Help
 
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Take her to the vet, rule out UTI and then try a course of Incurin.....worked for my 13 year old GWP. Doesn't even need to be on it all the time and it will not compare to the cost of your mortgage payment. There is also another medication my vet discussed...........can't remember the name now, but works in apparently a slightly different way, so don't give up. There are solutions without having to resort to nappies.
 
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gunnergundog said:
Take her to the vet, rule out UTI and then try a course of Incurin.....worked for my 13 year old GWP. Doesn't even need to be on it all the time and it will not compare to the cost of your mortgage payment. There is also another medication my vet discussed...........can't remember the name now, but works in apparently a slightly different way, so don't give up. There are solutions without having to resort to nappies.
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Sorry, I was assuming that any other drug treatment had already been ruled out. A nappy would be a last resort, of course.
 
We've been down the Incurin and Proin routes. No change. No infections either. I think I'm going to have to give nappies a go. Big nappies.
 
We've tried that. None of these types of medication work because its not a weak bladder that's the problem, its the amount of water she is drinking. Restricting it is not an option either as her body clearly needs it. I'm glad its working for yours though.
 
lilly1 said:
14yo bitch has had urine incontinent issues for a couple of years now. Some seeping while sleeping and squatting on the floor. Its got worse over this period and I cant remember the last time she went a day / night without an accident. Despite me being at home a lot and getting up at least twice in the night with her, accidents are frequent and several times during a 24 hour period.

She's had various tests over time, Last years bloods were fine as are recent ones taken. All blood tests are within the normal ranges. As well as the usual she's been tested for Addisons and Diabetes. We've tried a prolonged course of AB and various medication, no change. There is clearly something wrong as she drinks too much and her urine is very diluted. Vet has suggested testing her for Atypical cushings, more to rule this out though as her symptoms are not typical of the disease. Other possible cause is insipidious diabetes, rare and no test for this. Apart from the medication costing more per month than my mortgage, I've been told she may not be responder to treatment (assuming it is this), nor likely to respond to any medication for atypical cushings (assuming its that).

Its a nightmare situation and causing major its me or the dog arguments at home. If she was otherwise unwell I'd pts but she's not. This is a dog that's super sharp, high energy and shows little sign of old age. She shows no distress in having accidents, far from it, she walks round like lady in the manor.

Help
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I'd test for Diabetes insipidus. Not sure who told you it wasn't able to be tested for - water deprivation test or modified water deprivation is simple and only requires a day stay at the vet clinic
 
OK....so if UTIs and spey incontinene/old age weak bladder have been ruled out as well as diabetes and addisons then I would be doing blood profiles for kidney and liver issues, plus cushings and cancer.
 
This is a different vet. Both vets have been thorough with the the range of testing. Both have consulted with specialist vet hosps as well. She's an unusual case apparently and in remarkable health otherwise.
 
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All of those have been done 3 x over apart from Cushings. Vet thinks unlikely to be cushings but we can test. I've been told if it is atpyical cushings there is no medication for her hence not a lot to gain on a practical level.
 
lilly1 said:
14yo bitch has had urine incontinent issues for a couple of years now. Some seeping while sleeping and squatting on the floor. Its got worse over this period and I cant remember the last time she went a day / night without an accident. Despite me being at home a lot and getting up at least twice in the night with her, accidents are frequent and several times during a 24 hour period.

She's had various tests over time, Last years bloods were fine as are recent ones taken. All blood tests are within the normal ranges. As well as the usual she's been tested for Addisons and Diabetes. We've tried a prolonged course of AB and various medication, no change. There is clearly something wrong as she drinks too much and her urine is very diluted. Vet has suggested testing her for Atypical cushings, more to rule this out though as her symptoms are not typical of the disease. Other possible cause is insipidious diabetes, rare and no test for this. Apart from the medication costing more per month than my mortgage, I've been told she may not be responder to treatment (assuming it is this), nor likely to respond to any medication for atypical cushings (assuming its that).

Its a nightmare situation and causing major its me or the dog arguments at home. If she was otherwise unwell I'd pts but she's not. This is a dog that's super sharp, high energy and shows little sign of old age. She shows no distress in having accidents, far from it, she walks round like lady in the manor.

Help
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My friend had similar with her older dog. He was needing to go out several times during the evening and night, and a few times, wet himself when he was in a really deep sleep. He was also drinking a lot. Went to the vet and had a urine test first off which showed very dilute urine. Followed by blood tests to check liver, kidneys, diabetes, etc. All ok so on the vet's recommendation, he then had a Cushings test which came back positive. He started on Vetrynol (?sp) and after 2-3 weeks, returned to lasting through the night without needing to go out or wetting himself.

From what my friend said, the only real Cushings symptoms her dog showed were the excessive drinking and urination.

You don't say whether she's had any sort of Cushings tests at all? If she hasn't, may be worth doing, even if only to rule it out?
 
My old girl was doing this and sadly it was a tumour in her bladder. We worked a compromise with piles of towels over her bed, and out a lot. I even got used to being up several times in the night to let her out. Hope you find a resolution
 
On a practical level not sure of size of dog and if a dog flap (into securely fenced area/even something like a small aviary for security depending on doggie dimensions) would be possible for you? If outside not practical would a litter tray (puppy pads/fake grass/whatever she would use) etc be an option? https://www.petplanet.co.uk/product...MI65uooLa31QIVR7XtCh3ygQf2EAQYAiABEgJV9_D_BwE type of thing?

Obviously aim for the tests as a priority. But in the short term / assuming long term treatment isn't enough it might be worth a shot to avoid the middle of night trips out for you?
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I think I would ask for a 2nd vet opinion.
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This. And if no joy a specialist opinion. Water deprivation test if indicated but it doesn't sound like we're necessarily at that point yet. Everything needs to be done in a sensible order but it doesn't sound like she's had an abdominal scan/radiography and full testing for cushings yet? (Was it low dose dex that ruled out addisons?) What's her USG usually?
 
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A mystery. It sounds like all the usual suspects have been tested for and come back negative. I hope you get to the root of the problem because obviously something is not quite right.
 
MY vet suggested we try Uralin for our 14 year old collie bitch . It worked really well for about a year, sadly, it was then time to say "goodbye".

Good luck
 
When one of my jrts was drinking and weeing a lot, it turned out to be kidney trouble. Nephritis??? (It was a while ago so my memory's not reliable.) She had medication and a low protein diet.
 
Following this with interest. Big dog is erratically faecally incontinent, fortunately it's always solid! The back end is very weak generally, but the vet couldn't suggest anything when he went this week (different issue).
 
This is an extract regarding diabetes insipidus diagnosis and treatment.
Your dog will need to be hospitalized, at least initially, for a modified water deprivation test. An ADH trial can often be performed as an outpatient procedure. If the cause is found to be neurogenic DI, the condition may be treated with vasopressin injections. The prognosis depends on the severity of the head trauma, or in other cases, on the severity of kidney disease.
 
cinnamontoast said:
Following this with interest. Big dog is erratically faecally incontinent, fortunately it's always solid! The back end is very weak generally, but the vet couldn't suggest anything when he went this week (different issue).
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I had a labrador whose back end became increasingly weak and had at times faecal incontinence which I am sure was related to some spinal problem. She was about 12yrs old and I decided even if there had been an operative cure I would not put her through it and my vets (Royal Dick veterinary college) agreed. She had recently had mammary tumours removed which was a fairly radical procedure. Her rear end became almost paralysed and I had to take her out with a sling under her tummy to support her.......distressing as she was still a very bright dog. I had to make the heartbreaking decision to PTS.
Your dog may have another issue and treatments have moved on a lot since......(8 yrs ago). Hope your boy is ok......picking up poo is no big deal as long as he is in no pain / discomfort and his quality of life is good.
 
cinnamontoast said:
Following this with interest. Big dog is erratically faecally incontinent, fortunately it's always solid! The back end is very weak generally, but the vet couldn't suggest anything when he went this week (different issue).
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This was the final sign for me that it was Islay's time - I was sitting on the patio and saw her wander into the kitchen, then suddenly turn and dash outside - she just made it outside before she poo'd. She had been increasingly weak on her back end, and I knew the time was right
 
Oh gawd, I hope I'm not being over optimistic: he's very weak behind. The hips splay and he sometimes lies like a frog. He falls over onto his front sometimes. He has arthritis in his right fore and is very lame on it currently, so has Rimadyl and is lots better today (day 3) The vet says this will probably be permanent. He does still run round the field quite happily, so he's coming on holiday with us at the end of the month. He's lively, wants food and to go out but is being rested.

If I thought for a moment the he was suffering, I would PTS, even if it broke my heart. His neurological test where the foot is turned backwards was very positive, he righted himself immediately.

Sorry for hijack, OP.
 
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