What to do with my Trakehner - help please???!

N

Nels

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 February 2007
Messages
211
Location
Essex
Visit site
This is a bit of a long pleading post - but I please need someone to advise me the right thing to do
confused.gif


I have owned a very stunning 16.2hh bay Trakehner gelding for nearly 2 years now. He has previously had a suspensory ligament injury (near fore) but that is all healed and he has been sound for over 6 months now. Which is where the new problems have started. Now that he is very fit and strong I have a different horse to the one I bought. His latest trick over the last 2 weeks has been to put his tongue over the bit and refuse to go forwards and do any work (and all I am asking him to do is trot a circle). If I put a flash on him he rears. He is very highly strung and has always been a 'handful' - in the beginning he used to rear whenever I tied him up. But I had previously conquered his problems - he now stands tied up beautifully, loads fine, has been to shows and long distance rides..... He will never be an easy horse but I thought our bond would get him through anything.
However last night on the lunge he reared up and over when I put sidereins on
frown.gif
I have always said if he ever did that I would put him down because I don't want to ride an animal that does that.
So now I am at the stage - do I put him down? Sell him on project horses? Try and turn him away somewhere (he is only 7) so at least he doesn't have to be destroyed?
I am completely exhausted by him - he has so much natural talent but I honestly think now he has a screw loose and I can't trust him.

My last ditch effort is to get his teeth checked again in case there is any pain issue although they were only done 2 months ago and he has monthly osteopath work on his back so I know it isn't pain there either....

I really want to start again with a new horse but don't see how I can sell something I consider dangerous on a normal website such as Horsemart....

Cookies if you got this far
smile.gif
Any advice would be very welcome x
 
When Jepser started to behave like this we were in a similar position. In the end as a last ditch attempt we got the vet out for a full lameness work up. He was diagnosed with PSD in his left hind. He hadn't been lame but once nerve blocked the different was obvious. He was turned away and when brought back in to work was still a handful but much better. As a last ditch attempt I'd try a full lameness work up. Otherwise you could put on Project Horses.
 
Oh dear, I know how that feels. Funnily enough my Trakehner is very docile and even when pushed to the limit doesn't react. But, this happened to my TBx a year ago, everything was wonderful, he was a bit sharp but he was everything I wanted then one day out of character he reared out on a hack - down a busy road with cars passing. It was enough for me to get off and lead back to the yard. I tried riding int eh school and he was exactly the same so I got the vet out. Vet said bute him twice a day for 2 weeks and ride him through it. Again no change. Took him for a lameness work up and they did find quite a bit wrong with him but in my opinion not the source of the pain/naughtiness. Took to another vet and they found serious trauma in his stifles which would be consistent with his behaviour. Also previously he had gone mental on the lunge and went right over. Unfortunately after a years worth of vets fees and and operation he never came right and was pts a month ago.

I would personally get a vet to come and look at him, see if he trots up sound. I see you are using an osteopath but have you actually had his saddle checked recently.

Do you have a RI or someone experienced that could try and ride him for you to see if they can make a difference? It is hard then you have lost your nerve of faith in them to get back on and pretend things are ok, and the horse will play on this. Please don't sell him, if he is considered dangerous then you could be responsible for an accident waiting to happen. It might be best for you to send him away to be re-schooled first and then evaluate him then. It might make him your dream horse if not your trainer can advise what can be done with him.

<<<<<hugs>>>>>> it must be really hard for you.
 
Some horses can't take side reins, they just hate the pressure and can't get away from it - I know that seeing the horse flip is very scary but they do also scare themselves at the same time and therefore tend not to do it again. A horse that flips over more than once or twice at best, I would be worried. However, if you're nervous when you ride, that won't help matters. I'd get a pro on him to help you out for a few weeks (budget permitting) so that they can give you their honest opinion about whether he's dangerous or just needs a firm rider. That might reassure you a bit and also give you ideas about how best to manage him. Whereabouts are you in the country? Could recommend a few near me.
 
Do you *really* trust an oestopath to tell you 100% there isn't a pain issue there? Please, get your vet involved. It's possible he's still getting pain from his suspensory - or maybe the other leg is damaged.
 
If he is cleared for work on medical grounds, I would send him away for 6-8 weeks to a professional yard for working in and see how he comes on. If you decide to sell him he will have this restart which will stand him in better stead for a new home.

Did he accidentally topple over/slip or did he throw himself? A number of years ago I've had one for retraining that was a commited back flipper - extremely dangerous and very unpredictable! If you think he threw himself over then there may be difficult decisions to be made ahead. If you have a good trainer they will be able to advise and support you. The most important thing is your safety and any other human's whatever route you take.
 
Thanks for the replies, I will provide a little more info:

He has always been very highly strung to ride - but in my eyes was fine to ride until a month ago. Initially he started bucking, then because I sat to that ok he started doing this tongue-over-the-bit thing and rearing. I have had lessons in last 2 weeks with 2 top dressage riders - both refused to get on him and said to shoot him. He has previously worked ok in sidereins but at the moment refuses to accept any contact when I am on top riding or on the lunge with sidereins.
I do agree that there could be another pain issue - hence why I will try the dentist again (he is parrot mouthed so I am always pedantic about his teeth) but I have spent a small fortune 'fixing' this horse over the last 2 years. He has seen so many vets and back people etc and is the most looked-after horse on my yard!
But now i have seen him flip up and over my confidence and belief in him is starting to vanish. I don't have endless amounts of money to get a full vetting done again. I am so exhausted at the moment I think I just want to give him away.....
 
My horse used to be like that. He's TB and I nearly had him put down when he was 5 as he had, and still has, a screw loose. He was 20 last week and is quite a nice hack really, although can be quirky.

Try to work through it if you can, otherwise you should be able to find somebody to take him on, perhaps through Project Horses.
 
Nels - reading your second post, I would get yourself (or rather, your horse) booked into the Vets ASAP and get him checked over as much as you can. Failing that, and if there is a psychological issue rather than a physical one, then I would be inclined to either have him PTS or investigate one of the 'horsemanship' type people (NOT parelli) who take on 'nutcase' horses with their eyes open.

Either way, I do not think you should continue yourself with this horse. Life's too short (and too precious)

Good luck. x
 
Thank you. Your post makes complete sense to me - I have posted on here today because I almost feel a bit hysterical about what to do....and i have never been like this before! I will have a good long think about whether I have the money and energy to go through another full vetting. Last week I would have done anything to get this horse checked out if I thought he was in pain...but after last night I feel completely disheartened and like I can't see myself ever riding him again if if i got him 'fixed'??
 
[ QUOTE ]
Nels - reading your second post, I would get yourself (or rather, your horse) booked into the Vets ASAP and get him checked over as much as you can. Failing that, and if there is a psychological issue rather than a physical one, then I would be inclined to either have him PTS or investigate one of the 'horsemanship' type people (NOT parelli) who take on 'nutcase' horses with their eyes open.

Either way, I do not think you should continue yourself with this horse. Life's too short (and too precious)

Good luck. x

[/ QUOTE ]
I totally agree. Life Is too short. Keep us posted, there is always a lot of support on here.
 
What a shame
frown.gif

How is he bred? It's hard to know sometimes if they do it through pain or if its just their character. I have 2 confirmed rearers (both 1/2 trakehner) and it's very manageable most of the time. One had a full body scan and they really couldnt find anything wrong with her, it's just her!
It'd definitely be worth exploring the veterinary route, particularly if he's insured
 
I know - he is the sort of horse I have always dreamed of owning
frown.gif


He is out of the sire Donaumonarch - he was bred at a very reputable stud in Germany but they found him to be too difficult to ride so he ended up over here. He is also scared of men so I think something nasty happened to him when he was a youngster.

But it still doesn't help me to understand why my lovely, kind horse that I have owned for 2 years and could hack for hours on end (his stamina is amazing) has ended up like this?? Yes, he has always been a 'rearer' but I am a fairly confident rider and felt I could cope before...maybe if I eliminate the pain idea he is just too much horse for me after all. I am very upset about it all. Just need to now weigh up what the insurance will pay for because I really can't afford a big vet bill for a horse I potentially never want to ride again.
 
Having read the 2nd bit, I'd think about getting a good vet (not just any old one, some of the good Newmarket practices) involved. If he's unhappy in the contact, I'd also think about having his jaw Xrayed for wolf teeth - not just having an EDT out to rasp them.
 
I also have a Trakehner who displayed very difficult behaviour under saddle when I first got him - he is an angel on the ground. After a year of being told he was too much for me, he was taking the p**s, he had too much attitude etc, etc, I asked for a referral for a thorough MOT knowing something was wrong and lone behold he had PSD in both hinds and a boney spur on his sacroilliac! After surgery, injections in the joint and rest he came back into work - some of the behaviour was still shown but not nearly to the degree it previously was - I am pretty confident it was habitual behaviour.

The point I am trying to get to is that more often than not this bad behaviour nearly always has a pain issue behind it. It is hard work for horses to work against us and be difficult - it is not in their nature generally! (I know there is exceptions out there).

I would ask your vet to refer to a good horspital and do as much investigation as poss to see if there is any problems going on.

Good luck!
 
Keep digging and digging until you find more info regarding the pain issue (if there is any that is), be it with different back people, vets, saddle fitters...what ever avenue you have already been down, go down it again, I know its expensive and time consuming but things can be missed by some professionals and picked up by others.

A challenging horse will put up a challenging fight every time even on a the most trivial of things, were others who are less sensitive and less highly strung will just shut and put up. Many horses get passed on problem horses without really going through a process of ruling every little thing out.

If your horse has been ok in the past, there is every chance that he can be ok again in the future, there must be reason for his behaviour, as for the side reins thing...well a lot of horses would do the same, they just don't like to feel restricted...contained etc so they panic and rear up because they go over the whole thing is even more dramatic, so as long has he's not injured himself, I wouldn't just take that incident with pinch of salt and not use them again.

Good Luck and yes it must be very disheartening for you at the movement but just stick in there until you really hav exhausted every avenue then I like others have said your last resort is to put him in full working livery so a trainer can work and look after him and see what they think.

Hope things get sorted out. xxxhugsxx
 
I have booked him in with my vet at 2pm tomorrow and will ask for a referral if he cannot find out what is wrong with him.

Thank you all so much for your answers. I don't think he is the horse for me any longer but I do love him enough to find out what is causing this.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have booked him in with my vet at 2pm tomorrow and will ask for a referral if he cannot find out what is wrong with him.

Thank you all so much for your answers. I don't think he is the horse for me any longer but I do love him enough to find out what is causing this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm really glad of this - you sound such a responsible owner.

I would definately recommend having a professional on his back - my mare is German and mostly Trak blood (altho reg. Westfalian) & she is super-sharp but the kindest horse on earth.
She becomes a bit of a nightmare if there are routine changes but never tries anything with people she knows won't come off.

I'd up the turnout, cut the hard feed & lunge the socks off him till he has the edge off if you're convinced there's no underlying issues and please bear in mind that side reins make it impossible for the horse to get his neck back & use it to balance himself...sorry that this is so obvious/patronising but it's what has worked for me. Also I'm a great believer in turning away in the field for a few weeks to chill out my horsey in the head if she's being a little tricky; she always comes back in sweet as a lamb & it stops my losing my confidence in her. She never loses much fitness though
crazy.gif
tongue.gif
 
Your doing the right thing - believe me I completely sympathise with being at the end of your tether with a horse you love but is not for you and being pennyless because of it!

You will only be able to move on once you know whether this is pain or not - as that will be a major factor in your next decision.

If you do wish to give him another try - whether he has an issue or not/time off or not - is send him to a sympathetic professional rider for as long as possible so his return to work is consistent and done by someone who is use to dealing with the situation - I am not doubting your ability for one minute but once you have lost your nerve - for the benefit of you and the horse perhaps someone else should deal with his return to work/reschooling.

Will be thinking of you, do let us know how it goes.
 
Its interesting that you say you cant take up any contact (and when you put on the side reins it would have the same effect as taking up a contact). I presume this wasn't the case before? Also that he has suddenly started getting his tongue over the bit which would imply a desire to remove the pressure.

Is he eating OK? . What happens if you try to open his mouth and have a look? I am just wondering if he has injured his jaw/mouth/tongue.
 
Nels, I so sympathise as I went through alot of this with one of mine. He reared over backwards and narrowly missed my head when we were out jumping!

turns out he had hock spavins and was in alot of pain - 2 years on he's alot better and is just a hacking horse but that's fine for what I want (and what he wants)

Agree that you need to get the exploratory work done before you make any decisions though.
 
i know this may sound useless but when my friends horse doe that she turned him away for a while and he seened to mature alot more, i also had this with jumping i turnt mine away from jumping for about 7 months and it seems like he has just clicked.

how old is he? and don't forget he has already been out of work for 6 months or however long he may just be retesting you! but i don't belive shooting him is the answer.

good luck
 
This is my thought - he used to be very light in the contact and this opening mouth/tongue over the bit is a new thing. The sidereins were a suggestion of my instructor - he said not to ride and just use a flash and sidereins on the lunge to mimic the contact of my hands. This hasn't worked so I do now think he may have injured his mouth somehow....Yet I can open it and grab his tongue, prod all around the bars of his jaw and roof of mouth etc and he doesn't flinch or try to rear. I can even yank hard on the reins/bit when he is on the ground and nothing - no rearing or reaction at all. It is only when I try to take up the contact on top or with the sidereins that I get the rearing. Which makes me think it could also possibly be a damaged neck....
 
Hmm, I agree, an injury to the neck would probably result in the same reaction since he would flex his neck in response to the contact. What happens if you ask him to flex to get a carrot or treat?

Certainly the fact that you can do all that with his mouth implies the problem isnt there after all, and we know that its not the weight of the rider causing it.

I wouldnt give up just yet (although I can massively understand why you might not want to continue!).
 
I havent read all the replies so may be repeating someone here, but as this is a sudden onset of naughtiness I think it could be pain related, I would most definately get a vet involved, and if nothing is found a second opinion, maybe it is something as simple as his poll or back being out.

Rearers are extremely dangerous, luckily I got my gelding out of it but sometimes others are not so lucky. If all is well physically I would send him away to the professionals, reliable ones where he isn't going to get beaten up, obviously.

I really do hope you get to the bottom of this, as I know how frustrating it can be. Good Luck.
smile.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top