What to do with owner of horse i loan going against us

[Katie Dexter]

Ive been loaning this horse for 3 months now, we’ve been happy and thought it was a full loan agreement on part livery, i did either mornings or evenings and her owners and also the owners of the yard would do her the other time. Well, everything was perfect until we found out it was a part loan agreement, ok thats fine im still coming up daily and doing all the right jobs and more and riding. Then found out one of the owners friends would be hacking her out a couple times per week, apparently so she would be better behaved on hacks, which i could do but i went with it due to they own her (i pay £25 pw + farrier) then they say they are now part loaning her to someone else alongside me.. for no reason at all, wasnt like they needed help with her as all they do with her in turn her in or out and give her her feed. I do the right amount of riding ect. So suddenly there are 2 different people other than me riding her, when we agreed on just me, me not feeling its fair for her to be ridden 2x per day (im still up same amount of days, this new loaner doesnt do any jobs, just uses my nets for the next day so im in less of a rush) feeling a bit annoyed since her care and exercise is up to me.. id buy a horse if i could but too much money! And i cant leave her for 1. I adore her and 2. Therw arent any other horses available. Should i talk to her owners about it and what can i say without sounding rude, as they are the ones going against the agreement, but i dont want to annoy them. I need help!

 

[bonny]

I assume you have nothing in writing ? It doesn’t sound like you have a horse on loan, more of a share and I’m afraid if you want to call all the shots you need a horse on full loan to you but then you would also have to pay all the costs. Sounds like you need to sit down and have a frank discussion with the owner about exactly where you stand

 

[AmyMay]

What exactly does your loan contract say? And do you have a copy of the paperwork?

 

[Gloi]

You don't pay much towards what the horse probably is costing to keep so it seems more like a part share than a loan. If you want full control on a loan be prepared to take on all the costs.

 

[JennBags]

Yes, agree, it sounds more like a share than a loan. £25/week + farrier is the going rate for riding twice a week I'd say. Are you riding 7 days a week? What are you doing when you're riding, how long are you riding for?
It won't do the horse any harm to be ridden twice a day, riding school horses cope perfectly well and they're often ridden 4 or 5 times a day.

 

[concorde]

A full loan means you pay all the costs and do all the work.
You are only paying £25 and the owner or YO are covering the work for you one end of every day. This is not a full loan, you have a part share.
Sit down with the owner and work out a proper share contract with costs and responsibilities.
I hope it works out.

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

id buy a horse if i could but too much money!

By all means have a proper chat with the owners as these kinds of arrangements work best when everyone knows what they expect and what is expected of them.

I don’t know how experienced horse wise you are but buying a horse is a drop in the ocean compared to the ongoing cost of keeping a horse, especially on part livery. I spent the amount I bought my pony for in about 3 months after livery, insurance, shoes, physio, dentist etc etc. I’ve just spent another half of what I bought my pony for in vet bills. There’s no way £25 a week covers the horse’s livery bill so if you do want to take them on full loan make sure you know exactly how much everything costs.

 

[Shay]

Echo the others - mostly. You have a part share not a loan at all because you are no where near meeting the costs which is what a loan would require. Although these things vary massively from region to region when I had to work out what my good do-er pony on full DIY actually cost per day it turned out to be £25 per day - not per week. I did that calculation excluding vets fees and necessary replacement of tack and other kit - and about 8 years ago so it has got to be higher now.

But I would disagree about the horse being ridden twice a day. Yes RS horses often are - but they also go sour very quickly. The type of ride from an RS horse is very different. And they don't remain in RS's for life - realistically it is only a few years. I would not allow my horses to be ridden twice routinely - they are for pony club camp obviously - but at is a very short period of time. But that is my personal view and may not be shared by others.

What you do have is the opportunity to ride 6 times a week for the price of less than one hour at a riding school. That isn't to be sneezed at ! You do need to get a proper agreement which sets down what you are able to do against what you pay and what is the owner's responsibility. What notice periods does each side need? There are good templates on the BHS website. Good contracts keep friends!

 

[Red-1]

I echo the above in the main. It is a pity that there has obviously been some misunderstanding about what kind of arrangement you have. £25 a week plus farrier would not cover the sort of livery where someone else does half of the work (as in one end of the day) so I would take it as a part share. I do see often in adverts that people seem to exchange the words loan and share, whereas they are different.

I would simply thank my lucky stars that for 3 months I had exclusive use of the horse for not a lot of money, then back up for hacking. I would see the new situation as a new offer, and TBH I would want to co-ordinate with the other sharer to share out the days of work so, for example, the horse does not end up doing 2 lots of jumping in one day.

If the new arrangement does not suit then you are, of course, at liberty to walk away. Personally, in your position, I would plaster a smile on my face and think how lucky I was to have a horse half of the time, presumably with support and not having to do one end of the day, decent facilities and no worries about the long term. You may find the other sharer is fun.

I shared my horse for a while, we had huge fun, we would sometimes go on the same day, take photos, support each other. It could be a bonus if you can get over the feeling that the other lady is intruding. I don't think you will find a better offer.

 

[D66]

You have had a good deal for3 months but it does look now as if the owners are losing the plot.
If it is a full loan with a price to you of £25 a week that does not cover the full cost of keeping a pony. But, then the owners have all the work done for them, and you have had exclusive use of the pony.
It looks like the owners are regretting giving you exclusive use as they have agreed their friend can also ride on occasions, but haven’t told you - suggesting they know this is against your interests and what they originally agreed with you.
Then they introduced another sharer, presumably also paying. Neither of the other riders do jobs. So now you are paying £25 per week to be a groom who is allowed to ride. I can see why you are annoyed.
The issue for you is that you adore the pony. If I were you I’d ask the owner for a formal agreement, £25 is a reasonable amount for a part share, but it would be reasonable to expect other sharers to do jobs on their days.
You need to negotiate a deal and make clear to the owners that you don’t expect the terms to be changed without notice.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

You have had a good deal for3 months but it does look now as if the owners are losing the plot.
If it is a full loan with a price to you of £25 a week that does not cover the full cost of keeping a pony. But, then the owners have all the work done for them, and you have had exclusive use of the pony.
It looks like the owners are regretting giving you exclusive use as they have agreed their friend can also ride on occasions, but haven’t told you - suggesting they know this is against your interests and what they originally agreed with you.
Then they introduced another sharer, presumably also paying. Neither of the other riders do jobs. So now you are paying £25 per week to be a groom who is allowed to ride. I can see why you are annoyed.
The issue for you is that you adore the pony. If I were you I’d ask the owner for a formal agreement, £25 is a reasonable amount for a part share, but it would be reasonable to expect other sharers to do jobs on their days.
You need to negotiate a deal and make clear to the owners that you don’t expect the terms to be changed without notice.

Exactly this - I disagree with previous posters - you are not getting a good or fair deal at all IMO. Effectively you are paying €25 and shoeing costs for the privilege of being a groom to two other riders and I assume one of those riders is also paying £25 per week but without the chores. But you are also allowed to ride the pony so I guess this is what people feel you should be 'grateful' for!

I would feel pretty mean if I foisted that sort of deal on a hardworking and willing sharer.

 

[Goldenstar]

You only have one course of action to change things and that’s to tell the owner you are not enjoying the new arrangement and want to end the share.
It’s unlikely the horse will be doing to much work most horses do way to little .

 

[JFTDWS]

I have no issue with horses being ridden more than once a day - provided the work is suitable, the horse shouldn't end up sour.

I also don't think it's any of the OP's business who else is riding the horse, or looking after it, because it is clearly a part share at that price - provided the other riders don't interfere with her ability to ride the horse as per the original agreement. The other riders have their own agreement with the owner, and that is nothing at all to do with the OP. If the OP isn't happy to do the jobs agreed when she took out the agreement, then that can be discussed with the owner, and either party may choose to end the arrangement.

 

[abb123]

The problem here is that you are not clear about what you are paying for and what that entitles you to. What if you wanted to ride twice in one day? What if you wanted to go to a competition?

I would suggest that you get clarity in the way of a formal document or end the agreement.

£25 per week is pretty cheap for part livery if it includes food, hay, and bring in or turn out so I would guess from the owners point of view that it has always been a part loan.

However, I would be annoyed if I found out that a horse I had on part loan was being loaned to two other set of people who were not making a financial contribution or not having to do mucking out etc. It doesn't seem fair no matter that they are fully entitled to do so. So I can see why you are not happy.

I would just say to the owner that you love riding the pony and very much want to continue with the loan but would it be possible to clarify the agreement formally. If it was me I would be looking to pay the same but set a few days that you won't see the horse and have exclusive riding of the horse on the days that you do see it.

 

[JFTDWS]

Financial, or labour contributions often depend on what else the rider is bringing to the table. A well educated and competent rider is contributing to the horse's schooling - one might reasonably expect a novice rider to supplement their contribution with money or work instead.

 

[southerncomfort]

I suspect this not so much about financial contributions or workload so much as the OP's disappointment at not being the sole loaner.

I'd be feeling disappointed too I think if I'd expected to be the only loaner and in sole charge on my days.

I think the issue here is one of communication (as it so often is with loans and shares). The owner hasn't been clear about what she is offering or maybe the OP has simply misunderstood.

Either way OP and the owner need to have a chat and the OP needs to decide whether to proceed or walk away.

 

[fusspot]

If I read it correctly Op you are paying £25pw and for the farrier.The £25pw is quite cheap but you are also doing some chores.My question would be that as there are going to be 3 exercising the horse, so could be being exercised twice some days-the shoes are not going to last as long-if shod, so horse will need doing more often-as you cover farrier are you happy to cover what could potentially be 2/3 more shoeings-May be more per year -for other people to have the pleasure with no jobs to do or contribution to the farrier. If you really do not want to lose the horse I think you have to ask to speak to the owners face to face in a calm manor,explain that you thought it was a full loan and see how much to either have the horse on full loan and cover all costs and care yourself or if going to be 3 of you,say you feel a rota for the horse needs to be arranged and the cost divided 3 ways.I have had a couple of clients have sharers and it was always arranged what days each would do-I won’t lie-it very rarely worked out when more than 1 as people realised they couldn’t commit to certain days etc.Good Luck.

 

[splashgirl45]

i would speak to the owners and find out which days the other people are riding and tell the owner you will come on the other days and do the jobs on those days as there is no point you riding as well, owner will then have to find someone to do the jobs on the days you are not there. you have been lucky to have full use of the horse but as you are doing the jobs every day i would say it is not unreasonable..... to have a horse on full loan you pay everything, shoes, vets if needed, ,vaccinations, feed, bedding, hay so £25 is no where near the amount you would pay...the only difference is that you havent paid out to buy one...

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Think this is a classic situation where everyone (owners and "sharers"), ALL need to get together in the tackroom with a few coffee's and a bag of doughnuts and thrash this thing through. It sounds complicated, there seem to be a LOT of people who have their fingers in the pie and unfortunately this is only providing a melting pot for possible future conflict unless things are firmed up with a proper Rota for who does what and who has access when. There needs to be a formal Sharing Arrangement agreed by all parties involved, and adhered to.

The casual arrangement that seems to be in place right now is not satisfactory to either the owner OR the sharers.

OR (other option) is for OP to walk away and find another loan horse without all the hassle.......

 

[yhanni]

I'd be annoyed if I was buying shoes that other folk are wearing out!!

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I think it is totally immaterial how much it costs to keep a pony etc. etc. what has that got to do with anything?The OP took on the pony on the impression she was part loaner/sharer whatever you want to call it for the agreed weekly sum of £25 plus paying for farrier costs. for 3 months she was not disabused of this understanding.

The owners did NOT stipulate a certain percentage of all costs, at that point they were offering the terms that have been in existence and accepted by both parties for 3 months. For whatever reason they are no longer offering that but have not had the courtesy to inform their existing loaner/sharer of a very big change in the circumstances, or offered to relieve her of some groom duties and decrease the amount she pays towards the farrier.

If I was the OP I would walk away - I know that could be very hard as you say you are now very attached to the pony, but you are being used pure and simple. there are decent horse owners out there who would be only too pleased to have the help you give on a daily basis and a £25 contribution weekly to costs AND your payment for the farrier in return for you riding as and when it suits you.

 

[Frumpoon]

To be fair £25 a week plus shoes if the pony is at grass or on a diy yard then that is probably a very fair amount for a full loan but I would expect to be paying the yard owner and farrier direct, not the owner. Depends where you are in the country, round here £25 a week would get you a stable and grazing on a basic yard so if an interested owner wanted to retain a small amount of control and pay for hay and straw that could be done for perhaps £10 a week for a small cob/big pony

 

[Shay]

Impressions have no basis. What OP's "impression" of what was being offered and what the owners "impression" was is clearly different. Only a clearly specified contract or other agreement can have any bearing.

With no disprespect to OP folk who have owned horses for a long time have a very diffffernt view from those who have never owned or are very new to the scene. What we as experienced owners might understand by a particular term and what those less invoved might understand is different. Neither is "wrong" as such. They are just speaking different languages. Which is why a clear agreement is essential.

 

[Equi]

I wish i (as a sole horse owner) got away with £25 a week for assisted livery.

All i can really say is talk to the owner and either accept the other loaner, or up your financial contribution considerably. And get a contract.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

With no disprespect to OP folk who have owned horses for a long time have a very diffffernt view from those who have never owned or are very new to the scene. What we as experienced owners might understand by a particular term and what those less invoved might understand is different. Neither is "wrong" as such. They are just speaking different languages. Which is why a clear agreement is essential.

Well Shay I am a 'folk' who has owned horses for over 60 years - and I clearly understand what the OP initially agreed to with the owner and to me it was a reasonable verbal agreement despite my 60 years experience in horse owning! Still not sure where anyone seems to think that experience, cost of keeping horses etc. etc. has any bearing on the initial arrangement. I clearly see what is happening to her now despite being very old to 'the scene' and an experienced owner. Yes I do agree that the new agreement needs to be discussed and agreed or not by the OP and preferably in writing.

 

[billylula]

You need to speak to the owner and clear it up.

The OP hasn't 'got away' with anything, she had an arrangement with the owner that is now changing. Apart from anything else. its harder to keep a bond with a horse if lots of other people are riding it, so I can understand why the OP is miffed.

Most full loans I have been involved with haven't cost the loaner anything at all up front, but they have been responsible for treating the horse as their own. Without knowing the cost of the livery yard it is hard to say whether 25 a week plus farrier is reasonable. When we had a loan horse we paid his insurance at 60 a month and then all other costs. So farrier 70 a time - he was shod all round - food dentist vaccs etc. Worked out that is well over £25 a week.

 

[dogatemysalad]

The new member OP, hasn't returned to the forum since she posted this thread. Is there any point in advising her to get a loan contract ?

 

[Sail_away]

When I shared my horse, it was £25 a week for two days, no chores and once I was trusted I was allowed to ride other horses and compete the share horse. So if it is a part share, it’s an awfully expensive one and I would not be happy about paying farrier costs especially if the other riders were not contributing. I think you need to decide what you want from the share/loan. If you want to ride a couple of times a week and do chores just on those days, I would say that I wanted a standard share agreement, and that I would not keep paying for the farrier. £25 per week maximum. If you do want to full loan, you’ll have to pay for it! As in, livery, insurance, farrier, saddler, vet... it gets expensive very quickly.
I think the problem is you’re paying for more than a standard share but less than a full loan. You need to talk to the owner about what you’re expecting to get for the price you’re paying.

 

[JFTDWS]

The new member OP, hasn't returned to the forum since she posted this thread. Is there any point in advising her to get a loan contract ?

Arguably the thread might serve as a warning to other users or lurkers who are embarking on shares, and would be well advised to get a clear contract.

 

[Velcrobum]

Is it half term ????????