What to feed these two, from this store?

[Chappie]

Hi, I've not been on the forum very much in the past while, but thought I'd try asking for some opinions on what to feed a cob and a pony that I am responsible for (I am not the owner, but I loan one and I have responsibility for the other.)
I can't change very much about their circumstances, which I know are not ideal; there are pros and cons in their situation, so I'm trying to do the best I can.
I've been involved with them for over seven years and am looking to review their feed for both cost reasons in the current economic climate, and to make sure they are getting the best they can, as they are getting older.
I've done a fair bit of research myself, I read the forum and any books I can and get all the equine magazines and read articles online, but feel confused by all the options available.

Ages: 21/20
Breeds: Irish Cob/Unknown breeding, suspect New Forest/very possibly some Arab mix
Height: 14.2hh
Routine: They get turnout to graze Tue-Fri 8-2pm. There is turnout available at other times, but it has no grass and it is shared so we have to take turns, it is limited.
I hand graze both at weekends for about an hour each day, while there is grass available.

Good doers in very light work; the cob does more; the pony only does 1.5 hours max hack a week when the owner rides out, and a bit of in-hand when I can get the time.

Cob has long-standing gut issues, as soon as the temps drops and the grass dies off he gets watery poo, but it can happen in summer too. Improved greatly since I started him on Protexin Gut Balancer a few years ago. He is worse on haylage so luckily the yard allows for this, as they sometimes get haylage but mostly hay.
He also had Mallanders, which is a work in progress to control.

What they used to get fed about seven years ago when I first took them on: Alfa A Oil/Healthy Tummy/Mollichaff Donkey Chaff/dry bran.
(The owner is not knowledgeable and doesn't want to take anything to do with this side of owning them now.) They did not look good on this feed mix and the cob in particular was a mess, skinny, very dirty, matted fur, old weeping sores all through the feathers.

From the yard they get hay, twice on the days they don't get turnout. It's very variable the amount they get, sometimes it barely fills out an 8lb net, other days it's masses. None on the yard are thin or overweight, they eat straw when finished hay. Cob is on woodshavings, so I buy my own small bales and feed a net of that in the evening, the pony gets a small 4lb net and the cob gets a 6-8lb net. I go through periods of soaking hay when the grass is growing.

What I used to feed: Thunderbrooks Chaff and Spillers Light & Lean - stopped after winter/early spring.
I have read that Thunderbrooks are not a great company and the chaff may not be what it is reputed to be? Lots of Mallanders advice recommends TB Chaff. It is very expensive though, over £20 a bag.

Since the spring/summer: Token feeds of Honey Chop Lite & Healthy with SMALL amounts of Pegasus Value Cubes with this, as they were not keen to eat the chaff alone.
Cob ok with Honey Chop, but they are not keen on this type of chaff generally. I've tried Top Chop Zero & Lite in the past.

Feeding at the moment, since end of summer: I was using GFW One Cup and Equilibrium Simply Sunshine until recently with Dengie Meadow Grass.
I have now realised the Dengie is conditioning. I am giving just a handful as a token feed. They really enjoy this, I get the impression they feel like "they are getting a feed" due to the additional grass pellets.

Vitamins and minerals: The GFW One Cup and Equilibrium Simply Sunshine are now finished.
The cob has Protexin and did get Equine America Buteless. I stopped as I felt it wasn't having so much effect, or maybe he is getting more stiffer due to age
They are now both getting Tumeric with black pepper. I wonder if they need a proper veteran joint supplement?
They have salt licks but I add small amount of salt in their feed.

https://www.davidsons.direct/products/identification-1/

This is the only feed store in my region that will deliver; I can't, for various reasons, go and buy feed myself. They have recently cut back their stock lines a bit. So I need to find some things from this store, or order from Amazon, which I would rather not do if possible.

- I wondered if the Spillers Daily Balancer, with Graze-on Grass, would be good for the winter? The balancer is almost £10 cheaper than Lite & Lean, but still has vitamins and minerals. Spillers L&L is now £33 a bag, which I will pay if it's the best they can get and what they need.
- Or use a (veteran specific?) vits & mins supplement with the Graze-On or Dengie Meadow as a token feed? But they need some protein too?
- Or stick with Spillers Lite & Lean (with the Graze-On as a chaff, or Top Chop Lite?)
- Something else entirely?

I appreciate you taking the time to read and your advice. I spend a huge amount of time, energy, effort (and all my spare money!) on them and want them to be well looked after

 

[SEL]

I use the Spillers balancers for my 2 cobs. I had the veteran one for my old boy and put the cobs on it when we lost the oldie - can't honestly say I've seen much difference between balancers so in your case I'd go with their cheapest (I do). The only advantage I found with the veteran feeds was weight gain.

I've started mixing Topshop zero and their grass chaff. Two big bins and it's a bit messy mixing up but cheaper than Honeychop which my store don't stock so I have to get delivered.

Mine don't like dry chaff so 2/3 get a small amount of kwikbeet and the other some soaked grass pellets. They go quite far in value for money terms.

The only herbal supplements I've found which help with arthritis are NAF's devil relief and Bozmerix. Both pricey. I suspect without more turnout you're going to struggle but it sounds like that's not something you can change

 

[Connemara24]

I was in a similar situation to you, and it's hard having a owner who doesn't know what they are talking about both old ponies they were 24 and 21 when I first started looking after them, sadly one passed away at 28 last year but a good Age. I now own the other one who is 25 now, he Is retired as he has arthritis I give him boswellia which I have seen a great improvement, amazon sell it but I buy it from viovet. I also feed seaweed and dengie healthy hooves molasses free which has everything in it, joint care, hoof care, vits and mins ect, It's £18 a bag. I hope you find a supplement that works for you soon.

 

[tda]

If you want to keep the balancer, but save money, there is no need to add anything else chaff wise
An alternative would be grass nuts and unmollassed beet, both soaked but a little goes a long way

 

[Spotherisk]

What are you trying to achieve? Looking at the website I would fed a mash, probably Allen & Page Fast Fibre, and I would order online Equus Health Winter Glow/Summer Shine because my dear boy looks great on it, his coat looks amazing all through winter (he is 30).

 

[meleeka]

If you want a bit of weight gain Id recommend Fibre Beet. It’s similar to Speedibeet but more condition and suitable for good doers. My old mare gets it as she can’t eat hay very well.

My others get Healthy Tummy and Veteran Lite (similar to Fast Fibre but with extra herbs). I don’t feed a balancer. They all look well and my mare who gets very runny dung, does well on it.

 

[rextherobber]

I'd stick with the lite and healthy just add a few Dengie grass nuts to make it more exciting, soaked into a mash. I'd be asking the yard to up their hay though, it sounds like it's included in the livery, so you shouldn't need to buy your own, and I don't get why the amount seems to vary so much. I'd add vitamin e if they don't get much grass,and maybe Aloe Vera juice ( cheap from FEC store on eBay) if they spend much time stables with nothing much to eat. It sounds like you're doing the best you can for them in less than ideal circumstances.

 

[COldNag]

With the watery poo - I have found Coopers Gut Support really good for this, and it can be fed long term.

 

[Gloi]

Have you had their teeth and PPID status checked recently?

 

[holeymoley]

They really need more hay that what they’re getting as a start. 4lb is only just over 1kg. 6/8lb is 2.5/3.5kg which is nothing especially on the days with no turn out. I would address this first before looking at hard feed. Why is it inconsistent?

 

[tristar]

i feed all mine on fast fiber, oats, agrobs musli, sunflower oil, salt plus licks, selinivite E daily, plus soaked hay, they are all slim and look fantastic, on is now 21 years but looks about 10, i have got to this feed regime after many years of experimentation, they all think they have a large feed, so everyone is happy, i don`t use, alfalfa, mixes etc., the fast fiber has protexin, the musli has rose hips and loads of flowers herbs and grasses , it is not cheap, but the other stuff is very economical.

i must say how i admire your commitment to the ponies, i would love someone like you round here

 

[Squeak]

Unless they're looking poor or needing something else, I'd keep them on one cup and a chop. I haven't found anything cheaper than one cup, you can buy it on Amazon or viovet, I think there's also another website that does it fairly cheaply with cheap postage too.

If it's only a handful of chop I wouldn't be too worried about it being conditioning or a handful of pony nuts.

 

[Chappie]

Thank you very much everyone for your replies, I'm going to read through carefully again and take note of all suggestions.

I may well keep up the GFW One Cup as it last quite a while and the cob looks good on it. I might keep the Dengie Meadow Grass (I'm mixing the HoneyChop into it to finish that, there's lots left) and add in a few pony nuts. It depends if we get a harsh winter here, I would maybe think again if we did and if they they start to not look good. Rather than a joint supplement (I'll keep the tumeric) I will make a (renewed) massive effort to keep them moving - a bit weather dependant here, it is really quite harsh sometimes, but I can only try.

I'm cross with myself as I should of mentioned about the cob - I was told over seven years ago, was not to have mash - I gather the vets had said not to, and the dry bran was to try and stop the watery poo. I'm sad and a bit annoyed the vets didn't/couldn't suggest more, as the owners are absolutely not interested in researching anything about horses or reconsidering the situation, but I've long ago realised there is no point in trying to get action on these matters.

I did try him a few years ago on a small amount of Pink Mash but he seemed to put on weight with even the small amount. Until their teeth would require it, I will likely not broach the subject again. I absolutely dread them getting older and developing issues because it's incredibly difficult being stuck between the yard situation and the owners.

There are likely getting enough to eat, as they are overweight! But hay's all gone by 4/5pm latest, so if they are on straw they eat that, cob's on shavings so I buy my own small bales to give him a net to last at least part of the night. I don't think I'm right with my lb/kg, sorry - it's a decent sized/weight net anyway, doubled netted. I used to give more to try and "ad lib" but he got huge.

They have dental checks once a year, the owner is 'funny' about this and doesn't tell me it's coming up, he likes to be there himself, but he doesn't take anything to do with the care side. He never says how it went but once passed on that the vet had said the cob had "splendid" teeth. The pony has had some teeth issues in the past but I watch for quidding or anything suspect. I've never done a PPID test yet but I look for symptoms and am aware with age the chances of it become more common.

I'm really up against it here but need to 'keep calm and carry on' as I can't leave the ponies and I need to also guard my mental health a bit to be honest!
Thanks very much everyone - once again, invaluable opinions and advice from the forum!

 

[J&S]

If you could feed good quality hay i really don't think you have to worry too much. The hay i get is excellent and my two oldies (17 and 25) just have a stubbs scoop of Happy Hoof molasses free with salt and a sprinkle of limestone flour with carrots/apples once a day and
a big trug of hay each in the morning and a good sized small holed net each at night. Their coats, teeth and feet are really good and they are going into winter with nice condition. They are out about 21/7, just in in the mornings for checking etc.

 

[little_critter]

I use GWF Equilibra (which is what I think you are saying they are fed) and find it to be very good.
Ref the watery poo, I tried various gut supplements and the only one that really worked (totally fixed it, I’ve now stopped giving it to see if it stays fixed) is from Trinity Consultants. It’s called FW1661
https://trinity-consultants.com/shop/digestive-health/fw1661/

 

[Chappie]

(It was GWF One Cup, little_critter, but I did find it to be good as well.)
That's very interesting, I've checked out the website about that supplement, and considered it for a few days, I think I will try it; thank you!
I'm possibly going to try Cooper's if the Trinity one doesn't help, as my poor boy is in a real mess just now - it's normally cold weather that sets it off, but it's been so mild lately. He's been on Protexin for years now, maybe it's not having as much effect.