What truly makes a 'nasty' horse?

I met one once...a huge great hunter type, who lived out in a herd situation in Surrey. He'd go for people that came in to catch their horses - everyone had to carry a whip or rope. He was OK when his owners rode him - I hacked out a few times with one or other of them, and he seemed normal. But on the ground he was an aggressive nightmare. He was shot, in the end. Very sad.
 
I have one that can be dangerous, very dangerous but never malicious or deliberately nasty but that's no consolation if he put someone in hospital is it?

He's nervous to the extent that if he gets a fright he loses his mind. Under saddle he can be a joy to ride, fantastic in traffic and on a good day is a lovely forward going horse that is easy to stop. However if something spooks him and you try and push him past it he will either go backwards at speed through cars, walls or people (he actually ended up in a hole in the road in roadworks doing this, through the plastic barriers, the generator, bounced off the workmens truck and they had to jump out of the way or he would have landed on them. He had scraped hocks, that's all as a result and it was a single squirrel that caused all this) His other reaction is to go straight up and over.Not fun. In hand he is easy, again until he gets a fright - then he will run blind if he gets loose into fences, vehicles and people.In between times he is a doddle to do but you never know what will set him off, there is no discernible pattern. That's what makes him dangerous but I personally don't consider him nasty - others might if he hurt them though.

I've had him since he was a weanling and he's always been hard work but has never been mistreated. He is from 'hot' lines but I know a fair few similarly bred horses but none that over react to the extent that he does . I love him dearly but have retired him in his teens as he is a liability that I don't want to ride nor would I take the responsibility of anybody else doing so...I'm also very fussy about other people handling him as he trusts very few and that hugely increases the risk of an explosion.

This sweet but difficult animal has caused me more grey hairs and frustration than all of the many others that I have dealt with in 40 years - considering that I used to regularly take a punt on those in the last chance saloon that's saying something!
 
cptrayes said:
The word doesn't have to have emotional overtones. 'That's a nasty bruise you've got there' - something most riders will have heard :) I think it describes the behaviour of the horse ok, but not the intent.
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OK, fair point. I wouldn't call a horse nasty though. I think words like nasty help us to dismiss behaviour as a quirk of character when it is probably actually a sign a horse is in pain/shouldn't be bred from.
 
undergroundoli said:
OK, fair point. I wouldn't call a horse nasty though. I think words like nasty help us to dismiss behaviour as a quirk of character when it is probably actually a sign a horse is in pain/shouldn't be bred from.
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I agree with you. I hadn't looked at it from the point of view of people letting themselves off exploring a horse's real problems.
 
I worked at a big riding stables when I was a kid and there were a couple of horrors there. It's really hard looking back to try and work out whether it was pain related or whether they just didn't like the busy atmosphere or whether they were just plain nasty (if that's a fair term to use).

I was utterly in love with a right grump of a pony who pretty much everyone else hated because he would bite and stamp, albeit in a predictable manner. He wasn't so bad with me though and I knew how to avoid the feet and teeth so that was fine. Some people said he was evil and wouldn't go near him - suppose it depends on what you count as nasty/dangerous behaviour doesn't it?

There was one pony that was genuinely vicious though. No idea what had made him that way but he was so bad that he ended up being muzzled most of the time after he picked a kid up by her chest and threw her across the stable. He moved on after that but I can't remember if he was sold or PTS. Wouldn't be surprised if it was the latter though. He was so dangerous to handle.
 
I have met 3 truly nasty horses, hundreds of dangerous ones but only 3 nasty.
First was a section d who when the drugs wore off tried to kill everyone and everything! There was no pain, there was no fear he was just out to kill you or any other horse turned out with him
We had him PTS after he put several people in hospital.

The second was a yearling colt, welsh section a that for no reason turned round and savaged the YO ( an old fashioned horseman who has forgotten more about horses then I will ever know). The colt was gelded but it made no difference. Yo told them to shoot it or get it off his yard, they removed it. I've no idea where it went.

The third was a horse that had been lovely but had turned nasty due to mishandling, he had been caught in a stable fire and whilst changing his dressings someone had caused him massive pain. When we got him there was no pain left but there was a vicious horse who was out to get people, to the extent of jumping stable doors to get to people! Tried for 2 years to get him even vaguely safe to handle but when he jumped his stable door, attacked a groom and ripped her ear off we called it a day and the hunt came for him
 
SadKen said:
What makes me sad reading this is hearing about all the nasty stallions. Surely it's a bad idea to breed from horrible horses? The stallion I knew was a doll despite being an Arab, anyone could handle him. I used to hack him out aged 13!
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What rubbish.
 
The gentlest, most genuine horse I ever knew, was an Arab.

As for breeding from iffy stallions-well as I said, I knew of a couple but my limited experience any colt deemed dangerous was gelded straight away. Fillies though, were sent to stud if well bred, regardless of temperament or soundness. So I am not sure we can solely blame the sires. I've looked after a few stallions that we're complete gents but they weren't used for breeding at that time.
 
I have met 2 . 1 was a polo pony ,who had previously race in France the other a Shetland Stallion. Both were kept by' professionals'. The Shetland stallion had been kept in a stable for six months with top door closed. They both had to be handled very carefully ,saw them both attack people. What came first their behaviour or was their treatment the cause of their behaviour. If handled properly and kindly from the beginning would there ever have been a problem?
 
I've known 3 horses that were branded as 'nasty' but they were actually just mismanaged and reacting to their surroundings.

1. My old boy (he belonged to my friend but no one else rode him so he felt like mine). She bought him from an RS that was closing down. When she saw him for the first time he was in a stable, attached to a ball and chain which kept him at the back so he couldn't lunge over the door. They were going to pts as they said he had a screw loose. She brought him home and popped him out in the field 24/7. He field jumped for a couple of weeks but then realised he wasn't going to have to stay in a stable again and stopped. His behaviour and demeanor did a complete 180. I was 11 when I started riding and handling him and he was the perfect gentleman. He was the ultimate schoolmaster and I've never felt safer on a horse than him.

2. A beautiful liver chestnut mare who belonged to the owner of an RS I used to work at. She was a gorgeous big old hunter type. Had a pretty easy life, just hacked out with the boss a couple of times a week and he also had a lesson or two a week on her. Other than that she was used as an escort horse. She would occasionally be used for clients in lessons also, but not often. Despite her easy workload compared to the other horses, she spent just as much time on the yard, where she was miserable. She would go for you if you went in her stable and grooming her or tacking her up was a minefield. Once she knew you, she's ease off a bit and let you handle her but you had to be on your guard the whole time. She once picked up the YM and threw her across the stable, completely without warning - she was just hanging a haynet up for her. I'm sure she would've improved with turnout and a more one to one relationship with someone.

3. A skewbald maxi cob at the same RS. He was superb to ride but to handle was downright dangerous. He would try and knock you over and stamp on you, his teeth were just gnashing together constantly and his ears were permanently flat back. We used to put a towel around his muzzle to groom him as it was just not worth it otherwise. Luckily he wasn't that handy with his legs - he's happily raise a leg but was so slow you could get out of the way easy enough. He was sold in the end - goodness knows how they managed to find a buyer. But I saw him a couple of years later, he's been living out ever since he left the RS and had turned into the sweetest, most laid back animal you could ever meet.
 
SadKen said:
What makes me sad reading this is hearing about all the nasty stallions. Surely it's a bad idea to breed from horrible horses? The stallion I knew wasa doll despite being an Arab, anyone could handle him. I used to hack him out aged 13!

I've never had the misfortune to know a truly nasty horse. One dangerous one, a lovely little dun mare. She was a sensible type until she foaled. Then a screw came loose and you could feel that she didn't care whether she lived or died. I couldn't stop her in a pelham, she turned a corner too sharply and fell on me. The only one I ever refused to get back on.
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Sometimes it is not just because it is stallion- I would say in a lot of cases it is the way that a lot of stallions are unhandled. I hear stories of them being in for most of the day (and most people on here have commented on how the stallions are kept and treated), with not much to occupy or use their brains, and who are only used to 'do the job'. Any stallions we have ever had have been pretty much as easy to handle to as any other horse- they were well looked after, were given boundaries and clear rules, were turned out appropriately (ie no mares around etc), and were looked after in the same way as any other horse, minus the usual bits of what not to do around stallions! I think the stallions we have had have been pretty sane, partly due to the fact that they were also worked- one has gone on to become a top dressage prospect.
 
Faracat said:
What rubbish.
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Apols faracat, I intended to demonstrate that despite the reputation Arabs have for being bouncy and hot, the stallion was well behaved even though he was a stallion. My arab gelding was bouncy and hot and I wouldn't hack him out under any circumstances, so I was in effect just saying that stallions don't have to be nasty because they are stallions. I just didn't type it out in full but probably should have.
 
No problem. :) I just didn't want the 'mad arab' myth to be perpetuated. We all know the issues with the in-hand scene, which does a huge disservice to the breed. They normally have very nice temperaments.
 
I've only met one horse that has had a truly nasty streak. He was a young unbroken Arab (although I'd like to clarify that I doubt the fact he was an Arab had anything to do with it) who just seemed to hate people and other horses. He would lunge over his stable door teeth bared and would bite hard if you happened to be too close, he picked up my sister by her shoulder and literally shook her. He'd also kick out at other horses in their stables and left kick marks all over the walls. I was only young at the time so I'm not sure what kind of upbringing he'd had but it's the only horse I've ever known who genuinely appeared to display malice.
 
I've met pretty nasty, a chestnut mare where I once worked who when you went into her stall to clean it(she was on stall rest & her owner barely visited her) would literally gang up on you and threaten you. When you tried to exit her stall it was "you try and leave this stall and I will kick you to death vibe " and when people passed her she would try to nip them but it was mainly attention seeking.

Because of this she was ignored and disliked which just made her worse, I did my best to talk to her and give her carrots but she would just snarl. Her problem ? stuck in a stall too long with no visitor!!!

She was one cheesed off horse. YO did not help, no compassion for horses I told him so and got fired.
 
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Radar Lugs said:
The only horse I have met that was truly nasty was also a stallion at stud. He was stabled 24/7 except when covering mares.
Would savage you if he got near enough, killed a few cats that he got hold of and was in general all-around dangerous. Even going to shows he was a liability and tried to fight with other stallions in the ring.
In nearly 30 years of being around horses I thankfully haven't had to deal with anything like him again. He has been the only horse I have truely been afraid of until I got a bridle on him. Even then you had to watch the teeth and all four legs at once because you didn't know which end was coming for you next!
The sad thing was he was made to be this way because of how he was kept. The only reason he wasn't destroyed was because he was stunningly gorgeous.
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Met one too, a total stunner of a stallion, but would beat you to death !
 
Elvis said:
I've only met one horse that has had a truly nasty streak. He was a young unbroken Arab (although I'd like to clarify that I doubt the fact he was an Arab had anything to do with it) who just seemed to hate people and other horses. He would lunge over his stable door teeth bared and would bite hard if you happened to be too close, he picked up my sister by her shoulder and literally shook her. He'd also kick out at other horses in their stables and left kick marks all over the walls. I was only young at the time so I'm not sure what kind of upbringing he'd had but it's the only horse I've ever known who genuinely appeared to display malice.
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The operative work being 'appeared' (imo). Where do you draw the 'truly' / 'genuinely' line? Is it subjective, or something real and objective?

Of course if you're merely using 'nasty' as a label to describe something, as CPT suggested, the issue of where the line is drawn is moot.
 
I have suddenly remembered a horse I sold. I called him Sparky, his new owner renamed him L'amour. He was the sweetest, gentlest creature. I bought him as a stallion and had him gelded and did riding club with him.

A few months after I sold him, I heard that he had been put down because he was so dangerous in the stable. They sent him to experienced horse friends in another county, where he was the same, and be was shot.

Either he had ulcers or was ill in some other way, but I'm sure there are people still describing him as a nasty horse.
 
There was a horse at Hartpury called Duchess, she was what one could describe as evil, not just nasty...but it was pretty clear that her aggression was from a fear of humans...very sad. It took 3 people to do anything with her when she first got there and it was a long time before she began to lose the aggression. I know most would have had her pts, but again, not nasty....just ruined by incompetence!
 
Only known one, at a riding school it was a horse who had been badly abused in the past and the riding school knew his full history and did a lot of work with him to trust people but only staff were allowed in his stable. They owned him several years without incident when one day the owners dad, a very gentle, quiet old man who had handled horses all his life, was in his stable with him when the horse suddenly freaked without warning and went for him hooves and teeth injuring him so badly he almost died.
Horse was put to sleep as a result and owners' dad never fully recovered. No-one ever really found out what caused him to freak out like that as far as I know as I became disabled shortly after and stopped riding for a while.


Known a couple of horses/ponies that could maybe be classed as dangerous to ride, one named Kealagh who was given the nickname Killer as her party trick was to buck going downhill, not good considering she lived and was ridden in the Welsh Mountains, and the other a Welsh/Arab cross who would take off without warning towards the nearest solid object, usually a dry stone wall, then doing the last minute stop, spin, drop shoulder trick.

Both of these were lovely to handle from.the ground/in stable though and very affectionate so not nasty in the sense I would understand it.
 
Our Old Appy never attacked or deliberately hurt a human, but one day grabbed the section A by the scruff of her neck and dragged her round the field, in the most deliberate and aggressive manner possible :o The reason for this? I "her" person, had ridden the pony where she could see! That was calculated and nasty.
 
I was definitely using the word nasty as a means of description. And I do believe nastiness is subjective especially when applying it to a horse. I think the use of the words genuinely and truly in relation to appearing nasty is in reference to there being no obvious reason for the behaviour, ie the horse was treated well, was in good health etc.
 
I have just found this thread and wondered if anybody had any advice. We have an 8 month old foal that we got from the breeder at weaning in November last year. She is an Arab x. The breeder did say she seems to be a bit of a madam but we have not been able to do much with her. She seems to just not like humans. She will threaten to kick and has made contact with my friends bottom. She will pin her ears back regardless of wether she is in the paddock or the stable. Turns her back end on you etc.... She can be a handful to lead and doing rugs changes etc.. She also went vertical a few times when we had the farrier out. Is this just a handling issue that with consistency should improve or are some foals just mean? Thanks for taking the time to read.
 
ladydoone said:
I have just found this thread and wondered if anybody had any advice. We have an 8 month old foal that we got from the breeder at weaning in November last year. She is an Arab x. The breeder did say she seems to be a bit of a madam but we have not been able to do much with her. She seems to just not like humans. She will threaten to kick and has made contact with my friends bottom. She will pin her ears back regardless of wether she is in the paddock or the stable. Turns her back end on you etc.... She can be a handful to lead and doing rugs changes etc.. She also went vertical a few times when we had the farrier out. Is this just a handling issue that with consistency should improve or are some foals just mean? Thanks for taking the time to read.
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Turn her out full time in a herd of broodmares if possible, and just handle her occasionally. The mares will teach her manners, it sounds like she's been over handled. Also, she might not have been halter broken very well, there's a good book by Jan May that would be useful. I'd avoid a busy livery yard & stabling for at least a year preferably two, lots of well meaning helpers messing with her could screw her up irrevocably.
 
nervous nelly said:
I have no doubt in my mind that she was a nasty bit of work but we eventually put it down to an insane amount of in breeding through Nebo black magic lines.
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My mare is also injected with that bloody thing about 8 times without searching around pedigree.. She is one of the most temperamental horses I have ever ridden.

I knew a few.. two alive, two dead.

One was dangerous, abused in a stable and would lunge and attack you if you walked past, complete gent when being ridden and when in field, he was at the yard for maybe 5 years - at the end of his life he would let you pet him in the stable and go in although he did cause a few nasty bite wounds to faces, arms etc when he first came.. he was pts after a wither infection went down to the bone.

Second was a "dangerous" connemara who would buck and try get you off, no one wanted to ride him and he was very very strange.. he was pts after he had two fits - turned out he had a brain tumour.

Third is a horse many on here will know so shall try not disclose too much info.. horse has been a nutter since a baby but jumps 1.30 with their eyes closed.. been passed around and found past owners who basically said you have to get on and off 100 times before you can sit on horse and ride it.. owner decided horse had told her it didn't want to be worked and is now retired.. whether it has a brain tumour and/or kissing spines I don't know.

Fourth is a dangerous, general cow, will lunge at you and has nearly double barrelled me twice.. also gone for the clients, lord knows what is going on in her head.
 
Thanks for reply. I intend to turn her out with the other 6 horses. There is a dominant mare in the field so we will see how she goes.
 
I'm wracking my brains to try and think of an example of a horse that I would truly count as nasty. At the moment I can't think of one. I think a nasty horse is a very rare occurrence - usually they are just in pain, badly treated by humans or misunderstood.
 
I've had 3 experiences of horses with issues which some would say "nasty horse" but for me they were simply issues, granted ones I could not fix.

The first was a share horse who literally chased me round the field trying to kick and bite me, I had excellent advice given on here but the share didn't work out in the end as I was not allowed to address the issues. Given time, patience and understanding I am sure the issues could have been improved if not resolved.

The second was a horse (not mine) who again charged and bit people, he would also spin exceptionally fast and on ocassion use his feet, only in the stable though and the worst was feeding time. I was quite frightened of him as he had bit me twice and done a lot worse to 2 other people. One day I had no option but to go in his stable and change his rugs over, I was absolutely terrified to be honest and put my hat on, I truly believe he knew what was going on as he was good as gold and even let me give him a cuddle. 5 seconds later he was back to giving me the threatening faces if I came within 12ft of his door!

Finally, another loan. She was an absolute star to ride, a real schoolmaster type even if she did nap. In the stable it was a completely different matter though, she would kick out at you and really mean it, she would pull horrible faces and would lunge forward to bite, she also rushed at me once cornering me in the stable all because I went in to retrieve her Lickit out of the water bucket. I could not figure out what the link was, it was completely random, one day I could put hay in her haybar the next day she would kick out at me. It wasn't food related though despite me using 2 food related examples. Easy to catch from the field but would take lead and walk YOU in, if you didn't like it and tried to hold her steady she would jog, put her ears back and swish her tail. Probably things time, experience, patience and someone braver than me could sort out.

I think it's easy for someone to have a really horrible experience with a horse and to label it as nasty. The truth is, as someone posted earlier, people can make a horse have nasty tendencies. It's the same as humans, no baby is ever born nasty or evil and I'm sure no horse or pony was born evil or nasty unless of course it's down to a health issue like a brain abnormality. Also, as I have recently seen, people who just leave the horse with those issues and only address them with violence, why do they do that? Why even bother having horses if you clearly don't care? It's no use putting bars over a door and saying "that one bites, don't go near it", how about getting the animal checked over to make sure it's not in pain or shockingly how about addressing the issue with intelligence rather than just branding the horse as nasty and beating it everytime you need to deal with it? I'm not surprised the horse doesn't like people! Makes my blood boil.
 
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