what will vet’s next step be? poorly boy still..

NeverSayNever

NeverSayNever

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one of our BC’s, a castrated 8 year old dog has always had ‘odd’ things go wrong with him


He had to retire from agility by 2 years old; couldnt coordinate back end/legs over a jump. We used to joke he was dispraxic, he lacked coordination going down steps etc. After seeing a specialist they said he has some form of nerve damage in his back. To see him day to day you would never know, he is very fit and looks normal. Ask him to jump anything however and he lands on it, turn a back foot over and his reaction is slow to flip it back.

On and off over the years he goes through bouts of chewing at his tail, the end near his bottom. No vet has ever given us a definite reason for this, its either anal glands - although when emptied at the time they arent overly full or infected, but full all the same; or referred back pain.

He has had regular chiro and physio, we have a progamme of daily exercises we do with him; he has a wobble board, lifts alternate front paws and balances while on it. Does ladder work. He gets his back ‘bounced’ as per instructed by the chiro, stretches and then an ice pack for 10 mins. He has also been having fortnightly acupuncture. We’d have tried hydrotherapy but he is water phobic:o:rolleyes:

Also, on and off he suddenly goes through bouts of drinking to excess and flooding the place! His house training is impeccable, but obviously when you have just downed a huge bowl of water it’s harder to hold it in:o This is not a lifiting of the leg and marking type of wee - this is a, ‘Im asking out (pained expression) and if I dont get out NOW I will burst) and he does. Over the years the vets have found no reason for this and it has gone away by itself for even so much as a year or more before reoccurring!

About 3 years ago he had a nasal pyoderma which was utterly hideous - had 8 weeks of antibiotics to clear up and left him with a scarred muzzle.

I know these things may not be connected but Ive been convinced there is something going on with this dog. Possibly diabetes or an immune type thing. He is currently having another bout of the drinking/weeing.... I took him to the vets and demanded a full blood screening. It came back clear apart from very slightly raised enzymes which the vet didnt feel was significant. However urine samples this time showed a significant urine infection so he was given a week of antibiotics. A week later and another sample showed it hadnt cleared up , so he was given another weeks worth. A further sample showed the infection had cleared but he was still not concentrating his urine, so we have been told to wait 2 weeks then hand in another sample and if he isnt doing so then , they will ‘have to look into it further’. I thought he was doing better and I was only out for an hour picking up horse feed yesterday and came back to my back hallway flooded out:o Poor boy was so upset with himself:(

So, what do you think the next course of action will be and is there anything else I should be asking for? Contrast xrays ?

Thanks for reading...
 
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Ive no suggestions Im afraid but just wanted to say well done for giving everything a go and I do hope someone can come on and say they know what it is and your boy is returned to normality.

One thing that did occur to me had any of these problems surfaced prior to neutering or how soon after neutering did these occur, Im just thinking if there could be a connection.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Ive no suggestions Im afraid but just wanted to say well done for giving everything a go and I do hope someone can come on and say they know what it is and your boy is returned to normality.

One thing that did occur to me had any of these problems surfaced prior to neutering or how soon after neutering did these occur, Im just thinking if there could be a connection.
Click to expand...

thanks Dobiegirl, thinking back no i dont think so. We had him done after things started showing up as he was a definite no no for stud:o Ive wondered about the nerve damage causing the urinary issues but it wouldn't account for infection of excess drinking.
 
I take it the spinal x-rays showed nothing? The link between the back issues and the urinary issues may be conformational. My older dog has both, a scan revealed he is just not put together right at all down there :o and his L7 vertebrae is also damaged, the result of jumping from a great height but you'd like to think that function would follow form and a comformationally sound dog would be able to land off an A-Frame without it damaging his back to that extent. He has always been, not lame, but disunited/a pacer. Before the accident his jumping was fine.
 
thanks CC, no xrays were all clear and hips great too. He was like this (coordination wise) from puppy hood tbh and we cant pinpoint an accident or occurrence that has caused it. He was always ‘clumsy’ would make a palaver out of going down the 2 back steps from our patio doors, we persevered agility training with him but had to stop. He doesnt look unlevel or disunited in any way, on the flat he moves really well and can really shift!
 
What about a brain scan. Just a thought re his co ordination issues? And with the excessive drinking yes my first thought was diabetes but I think he would be drinking a lot all the time perhaps?.
Hmm! Poor lad and poor you, must be an awful worry. Hope you get him okay soon :)
 
The only other thing I thought of was to get a second opinion. I know vets that I've been to previously I would trust 100% what they say, and other vets I take what they say with a pinch of salt.
When I took my rescue jrt to the vet for his first jabs, he had a very bad skin condition. She told me he would never be able to live inside as he was obviously allergy to the house.
I changed his food, bathed him and put sudocrem on his itchy bits and persevered and refused to stick him in a kennel because he just wouldn't have been happy. 13 years later he lives in the house and is hardly ever itchy (apart when he pinches my mums toast)
So....maybe....get a second opinion....or try googling a vet neurology specialist?
Hope u get somewhere with it. I know it can be very fustrating when you know your dog and you know he's not right and the vets come back all clear.
 
thanks guys - aw he’s a happy lad and honestly day to day you wouldnt know. He has seen various vets tbh so had second, third and fourth opinions, plus the specialist we went to is one Ive use and trusted for many years. He has a definite stiff and tender area in his back which flares up but is soothed with acupuncture and a couple of days of metacam. The specialist really didnt feel it was neuro either. Tbh scans are one thing we havent done as we were told it would be hugely expensive and as you can imagine his bills already amount to rather a lot:o and that even if it showed something it would be unlikely anything could be done. That was for his back / clumsy back end. We manage that well I feel at the moment anyway, its more the drinking/weeing thats a worry, just not sure what else it could be. He is the boy on the far left of my sig pic.
 
update to this - another urine sample has shown to recurrence of the infection but he still isnt concentrating his urine and is drinking a lot.

So he is booked in for a water depravation test next week. Vet is wanting to rule out cushings and diabetes insipidus, she seems to think it may just work out to be polydipsia though (psychological).
 
FWIW one of mine has similar issues, though not to the extent you're describing, and we never did get to the bottom of it either but I'll describe the process so far in case it's of help.

R is an obsessive drinker - he drinks frequently and in large volume. He almost seems to go into a trance at the water bowl and will lap and lap until you shout at him to stop. He occasionally leaks urine, mostly in his sleep but sometimes a few drips while awake. It drips/seeps out, not in a stream. He is mostly not aware that he is leaking.

The number of times he goes out for a wee or the time of his last wee seems to have no impact, if he's having a leaky day he will leak straight after coming in from a walk. The leaky periods are hugely variable - he hasn't leaked for almost a month at present but at other times can leak on and off for several days in a row.

He is a clumsy dog with poor spatial awareness. He never got the hang of any contact equipment at agility - the dog walk was the worst, he would panic and try to grip the sides before screaming and falling off. He managed the A-frame but resisted any attempt to get a 2-on 2-off, he simply couldn't manage to have the back legs on a different plane to the front ones. He enjoyed jumping but was just generally clumsy with it, had poles down, attempted to jump wings rather than poles on turns etc.

Although he can stand up nicely when made to and has generally good/correct conformation his natural posture is roach-backed and his tail curls tightly over his back. He trots wonderfully but again really roaches his back at a run, like a giraffe. :o On the flat in a harness he is excellent, sound, strong, fast and an enthusiastic worker. He sometimes doesn't like his back end, tail or legs messed about with.

He also suffers from allergies to both pollen and house dust mite and has had recurrent upper respiratory infections requiring courses of antibiotics and a daily antihistamine.

He was tested for cushings, diabetes, addisons etc. all of which came back clear. He's never had any urinary tract infection. He had an endoscope up into the bladder with contrast dye images taken all of which came back normal, no ectopic ureter or similar congenital problem. Urine samples show that he *can* concentrate his urine but not quite to normal levels - most samples are very dilute, even when water is restricted. The contrast x-ray showed no issues with his hips or spine, so far as the images showed.

There's no triggers that we can identify, as above he hasn't leaked for a good while but nothing has changed in his routine.

Just to show how awkwardly he can move sometimes - he likes to move both back legs as a pair, for example when going down stairs, but the front two are independent:

301115_2367927515494_6961647_n.jpg
 
blackcob how very odd! and thanks for sharing your story too! He’s very handsome :)

eta my post should have read *NO recurrence of infection but the rest continues...
 
Has anyone ever done a thyroid evaluation? Many years ago I treated a dog with similar patterns, despite being treated for all the symptoms over the years by various vets not one had ever done a basic thyroid test. The dog turned out to be hypo-thyroid which triggered auto-immune responses. The other similarity was a complete lack of spatial awareness, cardiac evaluation showed up irregularities which again had never been picked up on, causing a lack of oxygen to the brain at times of heightened activity.
 
Hi there. Dont want to scare you but please, please get a 2nd opinion and get those enzymes checked from a blood work up done. We have just lost Roxie, our 7 yr old Dobie to Chronic Hepatitis. Her symptoms were seriously excessive drinking and urinating. nothing else what so ever. she was checked for Diabetes and cushings but the enzymes came back raised and vet said she needed a special blood test. A fasting blood test. She also had an ultra sound scan which showed irregularities in the size and shape of her liver. Next followed a liver biopsy which confirmed the illness. it is one of those diseases that once the signs are there, it has progressed. Dobies and a few other breeds a prone to it and it is something we hadnt heard of before. In the space of 4 weeks, she was gone. it was all so quick!! please, get him checked out again xx
 
Another possibility for the list - he may have an adrenal tumour, not necessarily malignant, but even benign ones can intermittently release an excess of cortisol producing some of the symptoms you mention especially excessive drinking and urination. May also account for the back pain if large as the adrenal glands are on the kidneys. You would need a scan to detect if this was the cause although you would get an indicator from the blood tests.
 
an update to this , and thanks for all the suggestions.

He spent the day at the vets today and was able to concentrate his urine, which is good. Blood tests have ruled out chronic hepatitis, diabetes insipidus and a thyroid issue. He has to go back tomorrow to have tests run for cushings but the vet feels it really may be psychological, that he had an infections (which we know he did) and the excessive drinking is a hangover from this and not linked with his other ‘issues’. He had also lost weight but has put on a 1kg so also a good sign.
 
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