What would you class as a dangerous horse?

For me it's when they pose a risk to humans & / or other horses. My Appy (hand reared orphan) fell into the first category and was heading for the hunt when I took her on. The only person who went near her in that first year was me or my very experienced YO. If she hadn't started to respond and understand boundaries then she would have been PTS. I still work around some of her quirks and she'll finish her days with me.

I've mentioned the feral that came with my land. He's fine if left to his own devices but I've seen him kick out at humans without warning and that's not a behaviour I want around me, my horses or anyone else on the yard. It's that flick from docile to "f-off" that I just don't see coming...
 
I cannot answer the question however can only share my experience with my lovely sweet mare.

She had trigeminal headshaking, sub-clinical laminitis, either sacro-iliac and/or ulcers (we didn't test but vet was almost certain), probable EMS, and was unsound even on two bute a day (vet suspected early onset arthritis).

Vet's estimate for investigations and possible treatment (which might not have worked anyway) for the headshaking alone was in the region of £12,000+, let alone even looking at the other issues.

She was becoming increasingly aggressive to others in the herd; and when she began to turn that aggression on humans - she nearly trampled someone in the yard one day - I knew that it was time for "the decision" to be made, and she was euthanised later in that week. Bless her, she was the sweetest of mares and frankly didn't deserve the rubbish body she'd had to inhabit. She was 10, I'd had her for three years and the headshaking had started and then everything else had just got steadily worse for her in those years.

Sometimes sadly there is nothing more you can do and you have to pick up the phone and make the call.........

Feeling sorry for anyone else in this position. It sucks it really does, and breaks your heart.
 
Completely agree with SEL and MiJods…

The conversation about whether to put a horse to sleep usually takes two tracks. The first track is what is being observed - either behaviour or lameness, loss of weight etc. Then, the second track is that there will always be those who question whether the horse’s care, training or environment are somehow implicated in the behaviour or issue.

Where the problem being observed is one where either the animal’s welfare or the safety of those involved in its care would not be compromised by fiddling about with investigations, diet, environmental changes, training etc then it would seem reasonable to investigate these (within what is reasonable in terms of budget, emotional resource etc).

However, where the horse’s behaviour or physical condition present a real threat to those around it or are clearly causing suffering to the animal itself, I’m sorry but the other factors just don’t come into it anymore. I would in that case be making the decision based solely on what I was observing.

OP, if your horse was mine, I’m so sorry but I would be making the decision to PTS. You could tinker round the edges as much as you liked with feed, turnout, training etc but if she rears up and comes down onto you or someone else, or injures herself seriously falling on the lunge, or hurts another horse…. That becomes a situation that you potentially can’t reverse.

One of the girls on our yard had a big, beautiful ISH and he would be fine for a month or so and then buck her off - proper ‘not stopping until you’re off’ bucking. She spent THOUSANDS on trying to get him right but never managed to get to the bottom of the behaviour. Anyway, eventually he put her in hospital properly by managing to buck her OUT of the arena, over the fence. She then made the decision to PTS, which I think was in the best interests of both of them. Sometimes, irrespective of what might have caused the behaviour, or be causing the behaviour, you just have to make the decision based on the situation in front of you.

So sorry.
 
I've known 3 horses I would class as dangerous in 40 years , 2 of them had pain issues the other one was a homebred but once sold with disclosure amazingly turned the corner in a new environment. OP I'm not sure if you've had vets look over your horse but obviously something is very wrong, horses do not routinely behave in the way you describe so if other avenues explored then there's unfortunately only one answer x
 
I had an ISH who was like that. Extremely handsome, sometimes quite sweet, but also reared and bucked me off, and kicked me so bad that I ended up in A+E.. I sold him to a young guy who absolutely loves him, told him all the issues. I think he just didn't respect me at all. He was a man's horse.
 
bonny said:
Lots of horses will take off on the lunge, generally ones that have got away before and/or get lunged way too much.
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No, running away on the lunge (either still on the circle or breaking free from the lunger) is an evasion. Most lungers react by trying to stop the horse - from working! The trick is to stand and wait as they fly round, then when they are puffing, and tired and want to trot, to firmly say 'And canter' and send them forwards until YOU are ready for them to trot or walk.

Took me a while to figure that one out, I admit. :)
 
Shilasdair said:
No, running away on the lunge (either still on the circle or breaking free from the lunger) is an evasion. Most lungers react by trying to stop the horse - from working! The trick is to stand and wait as they fly round, then when they are puffing, and tired and want to trot, to firmly say 'And canter' and send them forwards until YOU are ready for them to trot or walk.

Took me a while to figure that one out, I admit. :)
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Yep, the answer to a horse hating going round and round in circles is to make it go round more, that’ll teach them ☹️
 
bonny said:
Yep, the answer to a horse hating going round and round in circles is to make it go round more, that’ll teach them ☹️
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I guess you don't know what lunging is for. :( Shame - it's really beneficial if done properly.

Actually - if you don't believe in lunging or circles, I guess you don't believe in schooling or dressage either? What do you do - hack in a straight line?
 
As others have said in your situation I would definitely put to sleep. There are plenty of sharp/quirky horses that are fine in the right home but would end up dangerous in the wrong home. Horse rears a few times, owner gets off and gets scared, reduces work, horse keeps rearing, work reduces more, winter comes along, less turnout, no work and now there's a real issue and horse is dangerous to handle. Changes to management and exercise usually show a difference here. Or if you send them to a decent pro and the behaviour dramatically improves.

But it sounds like your mare is a seriously issue and a danger to people even with appropriate feed, turnout and exercise. So I would pts. It's a really hard decision, good luck.
 
ycbm said:
If the horse you describe was mine it would have been gone some time ago if vets and an exclusion diet didn't change the behaviour.

All horses can be dangerous. I'm not sure what your question really is? What behaviour is "dangerous enough" to PTS an otherwise healthy horse? That might differ from person to person, but there wasn't much doubt about yours, for me.
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I quite agree. Sorry but it sounds like a recipe for a dead person and ultimately it comes down to self preservation. Once a horse was challenging my life, sorry, good bye. I’d like to see at least 80!
 
irishdraft said:
I've known 3 horses I would class as dangerous in 40 years , 2 of them had pain issues the other one was a homebred but once sold with disclosure amazingly turned the corner in a new environment. OP I'm not sure if you've had vets look over your horse but obviously something is very wrong, horses do not routinely behave in the way you describe so if other avenues explored then there's unfortunately only one answer x
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There have been tens of thousands of vets bills
 
Your horse sounds like a very unhappy one , whether this is for physical or psychological reasons, we don't know.
The toe dragging , stumbling and unpredictable, explosive behaviour point to a wobbler (compression in the cervical spine ).
But that's neither here nor there as if this behaviour is caused by the compression it will be untreatable, like my horse's was, and he PTS within a month of diagnosis.

If there is no way of actually knowing how to make the horse happier and therefore safer, I would euthanize her.
Imagine being in a lot of distress and not knowing what to do about it or how yo express it? I would let her go, to end it for her, fir her own safety and the safety of you and others.

The fact that you are thinking about if it's the right thing or not shows how much you care. No one could accuse you of not caring. But sometimes we need to make tough decision because our horses and pets rely on us for everything.

I hope you can come to a decision and be at peace with it.
 
Hello everyone, thanks again for the help and support. Now the dust as settled and I’m away from the situation I was in, I can see things more clearly. My mare was an unhappy and dangerous horse (the vets think this was pain or pain memory). Looking back, I put up with the behaviour and situation for far too long, was injured many times and luckily didn’t end up in hospital. I’ve also realised it was gaslighted (if that’s the word). I had an instructor who helped me with my mare (when I wasn’t there) and for years used to say “she’s fine with me” “I don’t have any issues with her” “it’s your nerves” (I wasn’t nervous until she nearly landed on my head!). I’ve realised it wasn’t me, found out she was like this before I bought her. The vets also told me there were lots of notes on her file due to them finding her behaviour extreme (when she stayed with them). I also found out the instructor had actually had issues with the mare but didn’t tell me. Moral of the story is don’t put up with behaviour that makes you feel unsafe where you are at risk, don’t let people blame you. Get help in if you can but choose wisely
 
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Pts is definitely the right decision.
I do understand the guilt feeling but I bet it’s nothing compared to the guilt if the horse killed or badly hurt someone. By putting a horse like this (who let’s face it is obviously far from happy and enjoying life) you are protecting someone/yourself from probably certain Injury.
 
Shame on everyone who didn’t come clean about your mare’s extreme behaviour and left you to think it was an issue with you and left her to potentially suffer. So sorry you were put in the situation you were but well done for being the person that made the right decision for her. She’s safe and at peace now and I hope you find peace with it all too xx
 
If the trainer you were using is part of any organisation then I would consider reporting her, that is absolutely shameful.

Shame on the people who passed her on, they failed her and their fellow humans.

Well done you for being the one who finally resolved this poor mare's problems.
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I also can't answer the question but share my experience with a 'dangerous' horse.

He was 8 and I heard through a mutual friend that his owner was considering PTS as he was dangerous and she didn't know what to do with him. On the face of it, he sounded dangerous, but when you asked some questions I thought he was only dangerous if you put him certain situations. I thought he deserved a chance to work through his problems. He was very, very anxious.

He had broken an old lady's leg. Sounds awful. Two people in a stable with him loose. Turnout rug hung on a nail next to horse. Rug fell down, horse spooked, he stood on lady's foot, she fell underneath him, he stood on her knee. Very bad situation but avoidable.

Broke same persons ribs. Good to clip but not head. One person on either side of him to clip his head. Got scared and moved away from clippers, pushing old lady into the wall. Not his fault, completely avoidable.

He wasn't used to leading as stables/field shelter were all in the field. Only led for loading, vet, dentist. Loaded in chiffney, dually head collar, lunge line. Not caught, feed put in stable and caught in there. No schooling. Marks on his back from badly fitted tack. His go to was to set his neck and leg it if worried. He has never done it with me as I don't let him go over threshold.

I have had him 2.5 years now and he is a different horse. He was turned out in 33 acres with mixed herd of 12. I worked him in the field for 4/5 months as not good enough leading to cross the road to yard. He was just incredibly anxious and in the wrong home. He needed to feel safe and he hadn't felt safe for a long time.

So he was dangerous, if he was pushed, but not aggressive. Last week I was walking him up the lane and a horse came galloping out of a field, lost its rider. Horse galloped at us and I was sure he would go with the horse. Horse bashed his bum on way past and he turned and watched him go. Not a tug on the rope, just stayed right next to me. I was so proud of him.
 
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