What would you define as "not a novice ride"?

I would class my mare as not a novice's horse, but I would possibly say she is a novice's ride. I would have no hesitation in putting a novice on her for a hack in company or for a potter around the school, she is generally tolerant and kind with a bit of flapping and a slightly unbalanced rider. However she is smart and would quickly learn how to upset and rob a novice of confidence to evade work. She is perfectly capable of trying big bucks, bunny hops, napping, rein-snatching if she thinks it will work.

Therefore great for the occasional ride by a novice friend/OH but would be a complete nightmare with a novice owner.
 
The horse i ride was described as not a novice ride when sold to my friend and he's a saint!
I'm a total beginner riding wise and nervous to boot and he looks after me perfectly. Couldn't ask for a better horse to learn on BUT he is very forward going, is in a Pelham so i have to watch constantly that I'm not pulling on his mouth (way too strong in anything else!) and has very difficult paces to sit to. Has also proved with more advanced riders that he will throw in a buck when he's feeling good!

If i had gone out and bought him myself and just got on and done whatever it could have ended badly! However i am having lessons on him and only hacking out in company and he's the best, most forgiving and considerate horse i could ask for :)

Can totally understand why they advertised him as they did!
 
Thanks for all your posts ladies and gents, really interesting to hear what everyone has to say.

There is a bit of a recurring theme in that some horses are a novice ride for most of the time, but occasionally there is a dangerous moment of freaking, taking advantage, dangerous antics etc.

On the whole I think it is almost impossible to find a horse who will never have a naughty or scared moment. And if most horses are unsuitable for novices, what can a novice learn from in order to get better than a novice? Just asking because to me you cannot improve from the level of a novice without experience of challenging situations on ground and on a horse.

I guess that would mean do not buy or loan, but as enjoyable as riding schools are for many, they perhaps won't always teach the true experience of owning and horse and improving.

Just playing devils advocate here, its really interesting to read everyones opinion!
 
I’d actually consider a ‘novice ride’ something that you’d trust a small child on – something that doesn’t mess about when getting on, 100% traffic proof and all together trustworthy (no bucking etc) .. funnily enough I’d consider my 6 year old ex racer a novice ride as I wouldn’t think twice about letting young kids on her and taking her down the main roads – she’s so laid back its unreal! On the other hand … my 14 year old arab is the most un-novice horse Ive ever met – crazy girl! x
 
Hard one. I would class my boy as a "confidence giver". For me a novice ride is someone who doesn't know the "correct" way to ride and so will make errors in position/aids/transitions etc, and the the horse is forgiving of this. I wouldn't say my boy is therefore a novice ride as you need to actually ride him to get his best from him. He needs his rider to be clear about what they are asking him and he will then more than happily do it.
However he is also a very laid back boy (other than his protein blip the other week if you saw my other thread hehe :P ) and takes everything in his stride. He's as sure footed as a mounting goat and is a very careful horse that looks after his rider. So I would definitely say he is a confidence giver, just not suitable for complete beginners.
 
Its up to the novice rider to decide time to take the next step I suppose and purchase the horse thats advertised as not suitable for novice. But the seller can feel more comfortable having warned them. I guess life is all about pushing forward. We are buying my daughter her first horse, most of her peers are still on ponies and we have to switch of from the common perception of it being to early. Time to take the next step.
 
tashcat said:
These days it almost seems like a trend to label advertised horses as "not a novice ride".

And whilst I understand there are plenty of horses out there not suitable for beginners, and also plenty of owners who do not wish their horses to be 'degraded' to beginners horses, sometimes I feel like this label is over used.

Browsing over some adverts today who says things like "forward going but not strong", "snaffle mouthed", "calm and considerate", "very honest and a good listener" whilst also listing "not a novice ride".

So the question is what sort of traits do you think a horse has or does not, in order to be labelled "not a novice ride"?
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hard to catch
been out competing to high level
likely to pee off when your riding
does some serious spooking
throws in a few bucks or rears
strong in the hand
needs strong rider to make it go forward if it is spooking
canters on the road
gets very bouncy and excitable
throws head around

and the list goes on
 
Did you guys all have these saintly horses/ponies to learn on when you were novice? I certainly didn't but I've had great fun and come out better for it!
 
If I was to advertising I would stick something like 'confident novice' or ' novice with common sense'. My horse is good but can't see her coping with someone with limited knowledge or total beginner just sat & led around.
 
tashcat said:
Thanks for all your posts ladies and gents, really interesting to hear what everyone has to say.

There is a bit of a recurring theme in that some horses are a novice ride for most of the time, but occasionally there is a dangerous moment of freaking, taking advantage, dangerous antics etc.

On the whole I think it is almost impossible to find a horse who will never have a naughty or scared moment. And if most horses are unsuitable for novices, what can a novice learn from in order to get better than a novice? Just asking because to me you cannot improve from the level of a novice without experience of challenging situations on ground and on a horse.

I guess that would mean do not buy or loan, but as enjoyable as riding schools are for many, they perhaps won't always teach the true experience of owning and horse and improving.

Just playing devils advocate here, its really interesting to read everyones opinion!
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A lot of people seem to use 'not a novice ride' to mean 'not suitable for beginners' - possibly because a lot of beginners don't realise they're beginners? If you're riding the 'advanced' horses at most riding schools, you can very easily get a false idea of your own competence.

My current share horse is suitable for a confident, quiet novice, but would need regular lessons to keep him that way. He's a big-moving, forward, responsive, clever horse, and there's no way I would have been able to ride him a year ago when I was fresh out of a riding school. However, although he's a wet nellie and really needs his rider to be brave for him, he doesn't do anything more exciting than jump a little or, if it's especially scary, break into a trot. He can cope with an occasionally unbalanced rider, but gets anxious if it continues past the odd lurch.

On the down side, he does have a tendency to walk a few strides when you get on, he's petrified of trotting poles, and although he's (usually) an absolute angel on the ground, there's sometimes a very scary bit of plastic and he'll dance a bit at the end of the rope, without ever actually pulling away. He also pulls faces and paws a little when his girth's being done up. (Leftovers from a bout of ulcers when his owner first got him. He's completely clear now, but remembers that it used to hurt.)

That said, I very much doubt his owner would sell him to a novice (well, sell him at all!) unless she was confident that they were definitely working on improving their riding and wouldn't waste all the effort she's put into him.
 
I wouldn't let a complete novice ride Celt not because he bucks or rears but he is a very nervous horse and if he is frightened his run away instinct kicks in and it has taken a while for him to realise he can rely on me if I say he is safe! Now he will just trot a few paces but in the past he has bolted, on the road!! Thank goodness we are past that now, but definitely not a novive ride.
 
tashcat said:
Thanks for all your posts ladies and gents, really interesting to hear what everyone has to say.

There is a bit of a recurring theme in that some horses are a novice ride for most of the time, but occasionally there is a dangerous moment of freaking, taking advantage, dangerous antics etc.

On the whole I think it is almost impossible to find a horse who will never have a naughty or scared moment. And if most horses are unsuitable for novices, what can a novice learn from in order to get better than a novice? Just asking because to me you cannot improve from the level of a novice without experience of challenging situations on ground and on a horse.

I guess that would mean do not buy or loan, but as enjoyable as riding schools are for many, they perhaps won't always teach the true experience of owning and horse and improving.

Just playing devils advocate here, its really interesting to read everyones opinion!
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I think you are probably right despite his quirks mine isn't a nutcase as I wouldn't ride him if he was but he would take advantage. I probably rode much worse horses as a "novice" and to a professional I probably am still a novice ! :D BUT I believe I have a good horse sense and so don't put myself or my horse in stupid situations where things could go rapidly wrong but a novice would. For me it is more about protecting my horse and my sanity rather than the rider.
 
My gelding is definitely not a novice ride. He could be a novice ride in an enclosed arena, but he'd act like a donkey all the way and would be incredibly difficult for a novice most of the time and if the rider happened to use his aids unfairly, he can also throw a small buck. He needs a confident and assertive rider to feel motivated - but, with a matching rider, he's a lovely ride. Hacking, however, is a whole different story. 99 rides out of 100, he is the perfect hacker, bold and brave, but then there is always that one time when he can either get spooked or just refuse something, and then he can do anything from bolting to massive bucks. (not even speaking about our current problem regarding fear from moving trains) No way a novice could get him under control in these situations, as he can also get very strong and completely dominate a fearful or inexperienced rider. That would be without any doubts dangerous both for the horse and the rider...
 
My horses are 'not novice rides' they're quick, quirky and quite strong. They are also really good at their 'job' (showjumpers). Even if they was absolute dobbins I still would advertise them as not novice ride as a novice rider wouldn't get the best out of them
 
Sharing is excellent as if you do make little mistakes ie letting horse step into your space, slow down as a prelude to napping, the owner sorts horse out w next time she is there, probably without even realising it.

There are a lot lot more horses out there that are suitable for sharing because of the above then there are horse suitable for a novice to take on all by themselves


I did it the hard way years ago and cringe at the mistakes I made that could so easily have cost me dearly
 
Added to say my current mare is wonderful, kind gentle, sweet etc. But she is a Welsh cob so very clever, I know from little things she has tried she would soon take the mic out of a novice.but with me she is the perfect horse :)
 
Nope, wouldnt describe mine as a novice ride as he can be a snot somedays, and other days be a saint... yesterday he was not a saint... yesterday he threw two paddies, and tried to back me into a bush because it was raining... They apparently dont have rain in the new forest ¬¬
 
Nightmare before Christmas said:
To me a horse that suits a novice needs piloting rather than riding. Can sort itself out and is laid back.

I know many people who say their horse isn't a novice ride who don't realise they are pretty novice themselves. People seem to like having horses that are quirky regardless of if the horse is or not.

I'd rather say my horse is well behaved personally. Although don't think a novice would cope with revel as he's too sharp off the leg and seat
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yep!

Bruce is a novice ride in that,wobbling,accidentally kicking or pulling wont upset him and he wont push his luck if allowed to do whatever he wants. He remains easy and cheerful and happy to do whatever with no real training or direction and has been like this since 4yo!

Fig is the most genuine horse, who will give any job 150% but a wobbly grabby novice would upset him and he would end up spooking and probably tip them off without meaning to. So whilst there is not a nasty bone in his body and he has the biggest heart of any horse i know, hes not a novice ride and never will be.
 
rara007 said:
Did you guys all have these saintly horses/ponies to learn on when you were novice? I certainly didn't but I've had great fun and come out better for it!
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I think this is a fair point. My first pony was a royal rascal. He was impossible to catch, bucked, dragged riders off through bushes and kicked when his feet were being picked out. Yet he was one of two first ponies at the yard, because he knew his stuff and didn't give a hoot how much his rider messed up. He'd just drop you on the floor and start eating.

My second pony was another of our yard's. She was a saint, so gentle, so kind, so easy to handle, but she was sensitive and got very offended if she was mauled about. Hence, second pony!

Both were very experienced and very little short of monstrous mishandling was going to undo their training significantly or irreparably, which is what I'd say is a big factor in defining a novice horse, but the personality was the biggest factor. (For the record, he was 24 when I had him, she was 32!)
 
TBH there are VERY few horses able to cope with a novice on a daily basis that require no tuning up from a more experienced rider to keep them on side.

so the law of averages dictates that most novice riders end up with something not quite suitable, do a bit of falling off and wailing and learn to stick on and get better and no longer need a real novice ride.

Bruce is worth his weight in gold and i only wish he had his nuts because if he was a stamping sire my fortune would have been made!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
This. ^^^

I could advertise my horse as a 'novice ride' because she's easy to handle on the ground, laid back, especially in the school, and extremely forgiving of mistakes and shight riding, and will look out for you and do her best to make sure you don't fall off. She hacks alone and in company, good in traffic, good to jump, and does other nifty things like ground-tying and Spanish walk.

I could conversely advertise as not a novice ride because I've seen her drag inexperienced handlers off to juicy grass, she can be strong when cantering on trails or in fields, and has a wicked, teleporting spook, and in her youth, she liked to take off bucking with me and while she has not done that in many years, I suspect she still knows how.

Every horse in the world offers both desirable and undesirable behaviour, from the perspective of humans, and it's up to the humans to encourage the behaviour they want and to constantly be maintaining those boundaries. A horse like mine, who behaves like I wrote in my first paragraph 99.9% of the time, could easily behave like I described in the second, if humans had (inadvertantly) rewarded that behaviour -- it being all stuff she's done, just not often -- instead of the 'good' behaviour. If I sold her tomorrow to someone who had no idea how to handle a horse, I could not guarantee that she would stay her sweet and affable self. No one can say that about their horse. That's why there are so many threads here with the premise of "I bought a horse who they said was good for a novice, but now it's a total maniac. Help!"
 
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It is an interesting point though... Like rara my first horse was not a novice ride when I got him (and we got ourselves into plenty of scrapes to prove it!) though he was an absolute legend by the time he was put down and the sort of horse you could trust with your grandmother or your toddler.

And novice is a widely abused term these days too. Novice literally means new to the sport - which many who term themselves novice are not. And one person's competence may not be another's.

Neither of mine would set out to hurt anyone, and I suspect a novice wouldn't be traumatised by them, if they were fairly confident in themselves and didn't put themselves in dangerous situations. I wouldn't like to see what being ridden by a novice day in, day out would do to them though!
 
I would describe my girl as "not a novice ride", although probably not in an advert. In a share ad recently I used the wording "needs a confident rider" which probably better describes her.

Like others she is fine to take a novice for a pony ride around the school when I am supervising and I have had my young nieces on her. However, she can be spooky and needs to take confidence from the rider. She is also the ultimate piss taker and knows all the tricks to get out of working and always tries it on if she thinks she can get away with it. Finally she can also be strong, especially when jumping.

Ultimatley her last owner sold her on as she was difficult, although she only really admitted that to me after I had had her for a couple of years.
 
That is true. Someone can be a 'novice' horse owner even if they have taken lessons for many years. This was me. And yeah, the first year I had my first horse, a 10-year old Quarter horse called Angie who was deemed a good kids' horse, was pretty rough at times and I fell off a lot. But we got it together and by the time I sold that horse four years later, she was an awesome horse.

Recently, when I have done freelance teaching of adults, I find people who have gotten their 'novice' ride with no or very little experience of lessons but in any case, they have become afraid because there *is* an inevitable awkward period of getting to know a new horse, and learning how to handle your own horse, and them being adults, they don't want to be hitting the deck like I did on a regular basis when I was 13 and getting to know Angie.
 
Hmm, when I got my cob I was id say a novice horse owner - id had a horse about 6 years before for 2 years, and been riding for 10. I could sit a buck/spook/rear but I still would say I was a novice rider as I couldn't figure out lateral work to save my life (still cant) and could at max manage a course of 2ft 6 - and xc is a no no competition wise, could mess around but thats it. Handling I had don't from foals to stallions (worked a summer at a stud farm and some places) but still a novice.

After a year of having him and him almost killing me I loaned him out - to what you could class as a novice as she had only been riding 2 years, however she was VERY skilled and a natural rider. On paper she was a novice, but once in the saddle she wasn't. SO I think it is hard to measure. In terms of dressage a novice test would be quite hard for a real novice rider to do, if not impossible. Same with jumping......so its easy to get muddled with terms.
 
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