What would you do in this situation??!

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crazyhorsegirl

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I have recently purchased a lovely four year old. He has been backed really nicely and been to a few local shows. He is really mature for his age and very quiet.

I have had his back, teeth and tack checked over the last few weeks and all have been fine.

The problem arises when i am riding. He is naturally not particularly forward going and is very green in the school in general. He is not off your leg yet so have been carrying a stick with me, as the previous owners did. If you smack him with the stick to send him forward when he has not responded to my leg he will buck. He is definitely not scared but it is more as if he is saying, oi get off me as he has a bit of attitude at times!

If i smack him again for bucking he will buck bigger! So i have been growling at him and simply trying to move him forward without smacking him too hard or often as i wont sit the bucks!!
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I know this is naughty youngster behavior and he has to learn to go off the leg. It doesnt bother me at the moment as he is getting better but just wondered what others would do!

I have thought about riding him in spurs but dont want to do that until he is a little older and more established in the school.

So opinions please?!
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Oh and i am not a horse beater before anyone thinks i enjoy hitting him
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, i really dont!
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Thankies!
 
well so far i have yet to hack him as ive only ridden him a few times since buying him but yes i got the impression from the old owner it is only when you ask him to go forward in the school as he naps a little towards the gate and things like that!

He is just a bit backwards thinking at the moment!
 
oooh you see I am not sure what to say here...I would smack him for the bucking and then send him forward...god that is a tricky one. Cheeky bugger!
 
I'd be working on getting him responsive to the leg. Its important that you take your leg back off after asking him to move forwards. If you keep niggling and annoying him with it (which can be tempting on lazier horses), then he'll just ignore you completly (as basically there is no reward for moving forwards).

Apply your leg aids firmly just behind the girth. If he doesnt respond, tap him with the whip. As soon as he's responded, take the leg off - this way you're rewarding him by ceasing the pressure with your legs. Use this method to do lots of transitions and get him understanding what it is you want from him but remember not to niddle him every stride. Make sure your body is allowing him to move forwards also. If in canter, dont be pushing constantly with your seat as this will make him hollow away from you. If in trot, make sure you're sitting back down on his back gently so not causing him any discomfort. Ensure your hands are allowing the movement. Everything about your body has to allow him to respond to your aids and make it more comfortable for him to do as he's told.

Make sure you have a decent leg position and are using your leg effectively. Some people have a tendency to allow their leg to slip further back when the horse is "ignoring" them, moving the leg further back wont make it more effective. You should be applying with a firm nudge inwards at the sensitive point just behind the girth.

I personally wouldn't be smacking him for bucking. The whip should be an extension of your leg aid and I dont use it as punishment.

In regards to spurs. They certainly can be helpful providing your lower leg is reasonably secure. In my opinion, its important that you can take your leg off the horse if you're intending to use spurs otherwise you can just make them even less responsive if they're being poked every stride.
 
Sounds like a grumpy baby! I know he hasnt done much yet, but they are still very much growing at this age. If he is growing, or feeling unbalanced, may be an idea just to do things that he enjoys, like hacking out etc, because otherwise you will both get sour of fighting! The going off the leg will come when everything feels easier for him, and he is feeling happier about balancing himself and you!
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Go hacking then, get him interested and going off your leg. Stick to lunging in the school for a bit. Then I would build uo your school work graduarly - ie hack for 13 mins ride for 5 in the school...
 
Mine boy was a bit like this. In hindsight I believe he felt the School too restrictive, couldn't cope so would buck.

If I had that time again I would have got him out doing forward thinking stuff. Lots of hacking, walk, trot, canter around big fields, hunting, etc.

Don't know if that would be the solution for you but that is my experience.
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he does go forward and then i take my leg off but he appears to be trying to see what he can get away with me thinks!
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He is getting the message but as a lot of yougsters are, he doesnt quite get why he has to go faster when he can just walk!!
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I dont want to use spurs just yet and dont want to get into an arguement with him over the bucking as he is always going to win that one!
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I will keep perservering, maybe a day hunting though to get him thinking forward, although think it is more the school he seems to have an issue with at the mo!! Ho hum never easy!!
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I'd give leg aid as normal, then a sharp pony club style boot if the reaction is not as desired, back up with the whip after that. Sometime a tickle with a schooling whip may be more effective....more of an irritant. Just remember to reward and praise the minute he moves forward even if its just a step
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S'quite possible it's his lack of experience and greenness rather than a natural reluctance to go forwards. Many youngsters start this way (inlcuding my,now 8 year old speed freak). Get back to the basics and make sure he understands voice commands on the lunge. Keep his head up when riding, sit with it and ride him on.

He'll learn.

My mare bucked for England for three months. Hasn't done it for three years now.

Hmmmm... is that helpful in any way?
 
I agree hacking is the way forward, Sorry for the punn!

I think he finds schooling very boring at the moment and too much like hard work!

He is not a nasty chap but just not going to do something if he doesnt want to!

Only issue is that i can then only hack at weekends due to light so maybe do two nights in the school which could include poles to make it more exciting and then hack at weekends.

Bless him!
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Yes i really agree, think the past few months has been a stressful time for him, going through the backing process and everything. I have been lunging him also, which he is equally lazy with but he also has very little muscle at the moment so could be genuine greeness, which i think it is.

Was planning on taking it slowly anyway so will carry on. Im sure he will improve with time! After all he has only been backed four months!
 
Could you do some free Schooling within your School?

I find that really helps with building confidence.

I always thought my boy was being an awkward tw*t but I really do think he just got all backward thinking because of the lack of space.
 
My boy was exactly the same! It was only as he muscled up, and I backed off the schooling a bit that he "woke up"!! They are still quite weak and unbalanced at hat age, so a smaller school environment can be horrible for them, as no sooner have they balanced themselves, they are having to then turn again. Try and keep all the school work very slow and rhythmical aswell, so he has chance to balance his body, and not scoot along and unbalance himself again. Feels awful to start with, but gets them thinking about their balance and working correctly. Also keep spells short!
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Yes when the vet vetted him she said she thought he acted like he was in a coma!!

He is just a bit reserved at the moment and had a busy time especially as he onyl cam over from Ireland in Aug 06 as an unbroken four year old.

I will take things really slowly with him and see how he goes, the difficulty with letting him go slower to balance himself is that he will think backwards again! So i have to keep enough momento (sp) up as well as keeping him balanced!

He is such a sweet chap though worth waiting a bit for!
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Hesounds like my boy, an Irish lad too!! I promise, it is just a greenness and lack of muscle problem! It is tempting to chase them becasue otherwise it feels like they are ging backward, but get someone you trust on the ground to make sure th work is active, but slllooowwww!! Insist if you ask for him to go forward, he goes forwards, even if it is gradual transitions. But dont expect instant "activity" that can only come from balance and throughness, which he aint gonna have yet! Lots of gradual transitions help him to balance himself, and also keep him thinking and forwards. I rpomise it does get easier, even when you're tearing your hair out cos you think you've brought a donkey!!
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In a years time, you'll be wishing he was still so laid back!!

Can we hear some more about him please!?
 
When we had one who really didn't enjoy school work, we made sure there was plenty to do, poles on the ground, barrels to bend round, basicly anything to break up the scene and give her something to move forward to. Hope that makes sense and that it helps.
 
If he were mine, I would take him on lots of hacks and let him realise that it is fun . I would take him in the streams and go over little logs in the woods and things like that. I hope you dont like dressage coz he certainly doesent!!!lol
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I would also try and make it all fun for him, like going hacking in the company of a more forward going horse so he naturally begins to speed up a bit. I would ignore the bucking personally as you can get into a bit of a fight with a baby and they usually just grow out of it anyway. Ive got one at the moment who's not naturally forward going, he doesnt react to a whip at all, so I find the odd big pony club kick work well (he shoots forward), sounds a bit cruel but kinder than booting him in the ribs the whole time or smacking him! I know someone who did this during backing in a round pen, they simply got on and took their legs clean off the saddle and booted so the horse instantly took off - it did have the desired effect and the horse remained nicely forward going for life!
 
Haven't read all replies, but Antifaz has a penchant for bucking and I can't ride him with a whip because it makes him even crosser, so when he bucks I put him on a small circle. Force him to step under and make it harder for him.
Obviously you'll have to adapt for your young chap. good luck
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I would lose the stick and concentrate on getting him to take slower but bigger strides in walk, slow him down and get him using his back legs more effectively, a good instructor can give you some tips.

Also mine responded very well to some ground poles, made him think about where his feet were going and created a little bit of energy. Once you get the right pace of walk, introduce 3 ground poles and helps elevate the back end, this is very good for getting the impulsion in to a nice trot as well and you can use one on your circlework as well to get him thinking about where his feet are going.

As he is young lots of praise and encouragement for steady well mannered work is good, it sounds as though you have the makings of a very nice horse, don't rush him.
 
Certainly, he is a registered connemara. Grey as most of them are, and at present he is about 14.1hh! I am hoping that he will fill out a lot and grow to about 14.2hh. He is very sweet and appears to have a lovely nature.

I will post some piccies in the picture gallery once i find out how!

Thanks for all your help, im sure he will improve with time and i am going to work on going slow but active!!!
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oh he is going to be really nice, thats why it doesnt bother me at this stage as he will be worth the wait.

I agree about the whole no whip thing, i hate riding with one of i can help it so will concentrate on going a little slower and getting him interested in what he is doing!

Thanks, once again top advice!!
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sounds exactly the same as my boy...he only bucked when asked for canter though but it was still unerving. We introduced some hacking & cross country work, poles etc. worked on lots of transitions & used the 'tickler'

He's now rising 6 (bought him last April he was backed Oct 05) and in the school I have started using spurs....I know now his balance is right, he has muscled up and in fact is just a cheeky monkey who doesn't like to be told what to do- they have made a world of difference to both him and my terrible nagging legs....
 
Ok hereby lies a story! I too have lovely baby horse who was fine hacking and ok in school until you asked him to canter then he would buck, if you hit him he had the same reaction as thought to say 'get off', most people formed the opinion he was a spoilt baby and I should send him away to be 'beaten into submission'. I tried everything, he would merrily hack out and canter through the orchards with no bucking, went to baby shows and got above 60% in his dressage tests and gave out very confused messages to me. When I said to professioanal trainer that maybe something was not right I was told 'Don't be stupid and listen to the professionals', and also to use the whip whilst kicking like a pony clubber, his back was checked by two professional back people (physio and osteo) and all told me he didn't appear to have a problem. Well I listened to the person that mattered ie my horse and he is now recovering from an op for severe Kissing spine. Get your saddle checked too and if it continues asked your vet's opinion, I'm so glad I did as I hate to think of what might have gone on to happen.
Good luck
 
do you use schooling whip or short whip. mine bucks as soon as sees whip coming e.g. take hand away from rein to smack, solved by using skooling whip. He also still buck though if he is smaked in canter - as if to say stop it, I am going as fast as I can. !! hence why we don't do schooling in arena, got very bad habits being at riding skool.
 
I have only just found your post, (bit behind after the w'end on reading up) but just thought i would tell you i have the exact problem with my youngster at the moment, he is not forward going and does have a tendency to buck/nap, when he doesn't like something! Like you, can only hack out at w'end due to light, but have basically justs been doing that and we are now having a very active 10 mins, then tired, then turn for home and active again...so we are improving!! Just time!! Really want to take him hunting, but feel i need to get him fitter for this first, which is hard with restricted time to ride atm!! Good luck with it all!
 
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