What would you do in this situation?

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igglepop

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This is a post taken off Facebook

"I was out hacking today, on a friend's horse called Cobb who is normally well behaved on the roads. I was out with another girl on her horse who was just in front of me. We were coming to the end of a lane, and had just passed a layby with a gate. We didn't pull into the layby as my friend's horse, Solo, is a big boy and is quite nervous so probably wouldn't have stood still. As we were passing, a pony came cantering up to the gate to the field and made it rattle. Cob jumped to the right and bounced off a big 4x4 which was overtaking us. Luckily he wasn't hurt, but he has dented the back left door and has made the paint crack. The driver followed us back to our yard as there was nowhere safe to stop and take details. He is expecting me to pay for the damages, even though my friend asked how close he was and he replied 'quite close I guess'. He also told her he rides, so 'knows what horses are like'. When he first stopped he got out of his car and told me I shouldn't be on the roads. I got a quote from a friend and to repair the damage it's going to cost me around £400, which the driver expects me to cover. I haven't got that sort of money!! We were both wearing reflective vests and were right over on the left side of the road as it’s quite narrow. I know for a fact Cob didn’t cross the white line as I looked straight down as a first instinct to make sure his leg was okay. He isn’t insured so I can’t claim on liability. I have the driver’s details but he didn’t take any of mine at all. Now I’m not sure what to do. I’m worried the driver is going to show up at the yard demanding money as he wasn’t very polite. It’s a friend’s home so that would be a nightmare. Can I get into trouble for riding an uninsured horse on the road? It wasn’t Cob’s fault at all, just a natural reaction combined with really bad timing… What shall I do now? Any ideas?"

I would presume that as her horse did the damage its her fault what would you say.
 
She is indeed liable for the damage done. Shame she didn't at least have liability insurance with the BHS, if nothing else. As it stands, she is due to repair the damage done to the car by her horse.
 
Hmmm its a tough one really. Horses are horses and accidents happen. However I would be concerned that you say the horse was in a layby and didn't cross the line onto the road. I think that's going to be difficult if not impossible to prove. Was there any other witnesses? Any horse I leave the yard on is insured for public liability for just this sort of thing.
 
igglepop said:
I did suggest BHS for help will post to about free solicitor as well.
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If you think this guy is just being a bully then I would get out to the accident site with a camera and take photos of everything including skid marks, paint flecks on the ground and mark where each of the photos were taken on a plan, what was found there and what direction the pics were taken in, and get a solicitor to write a letter to him. It might just scare him into backing off. However he has the weight of an insurance company behind him and it is cheaper for him to sue her than her to sue him.
 
I don't get the "we didn't cross the white line" but "the car was overtaking us". Personally I would not be accepting liability. Who hit who here?
 
Either the rider of the horse or the owner of the horse should pay for the damage, and more fool them for not having 3rd party insurance - it's cheap as chips and essential for any horse owner/rider.
 
Refuse to pay. There's no legal obligation to insure a horse, not even for public liability. Don't know what the current highway code says, it used to say pass a cars width away. With a two lane road he would have had room to do that by using the other lane, even on a single track road with those rules it means drivers wait until there's a safe place to pass, not squeeze past because they don't want to wait. Your horse didn't cross the white line therefore driver clearly didn't leave enough room when overtaking so the collision was his fault. Even if the rules have changed and its somehow your fault, you can let him take you to court if you prefer, then let him get another court order to obtain payment if he wins. I'm not a callous person who believes in ripping people off, but I really don't think the collision was your fault. Horses are unpredictable and drivers need to take more care. Just because the person in front is going frustratingly slow doesn't mean someone has a right to overtake.
 
The bit I'm wondering most on is the fact the person said horse "jumped sideways bouncing" off car would that be her fault for not controlling or drivers fault for passing too close or a bit of both.
 
If I was the driver I would expect you to pay sorry

I dont think the driver is liable as you had the room to get out of his way and chose not to and your mount jumped in to the side of his car, you cannot prove he was over the white line but he can prove that your horse lept in to the side of his car. By your own admission he didnt hit you.

I dont think its Solo's owners fault as she wasnt even there, if someone borrowed my car and had a prang I would expect them to cover the cost of it.

Being out on a narrow road on an uninsured nervous big horse who wont stand still when asked is a heck of a risk
 
Just to clarify not my horse i was posting to see what others think as i have almost been in situation before and wanted to know if i was again where i stood. I am linking poster into this page so she can see.
 
Horses are unpredictable and it is acknowledged that riders can't be 100% in control. If she was gazing across a field, reins on the buckle and her phone in the other hand texting, that's different. But saddle, bridle, suitable rein contact and paying attention is all that can be expected. Neither riders nor horses have to pass a competency test to ride on the road (though they do have to abide by laws and road rules) so driver doesn't have a leg to stand on with the comment about shouldn't be on the road. There is no law that says if the horse spooks and rider can't prevent it then its automatically riders fault in an accident.
 
There's may be a legal obligation for slow moving vehicles or horses to get out of another road users way if possible. A too small gap isn't a safe place to get out the way. Even if the gap was huge and riders didn't get out the way, that still doesn't make it ok for driver to overtake without leaving enough room. Two wrongs don't make a right and driver is still responsible for their own actions.
 
mcnaughty said:
I don't get the "we didn't cross the white line" but "the car was overtaking us". Personally I would not be accepting liability. Who hit who here?
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I didn't quite get it either. One minute it said we didn't go into the layby to let the car pass, then it said they didn't go over the white line...

From how I understood it, they didn't go into a layby when they could have, and then their horse spooked and hit a car - so from my point of view why the heck should the driver pay? It wasn't his car that spooked... Thats the whole point of 3rd party - to cover freak accidents that may be caused by your horse spooking - it can happen to even the steadiest of horses...

I know you're not supposed to admit blame, but it annoys me - imagine if the driver had driven into the horse and done damage, we'd be up in arms. If you're wrong you should admit it, as far as I'm concerned.

It sounds like the driver was quite fair - letting them get back to a safe place before taking details, rather than ranting at the roadside, like some may have done...
 
Oh, I get this c**p all the time - I live in London. You are parking and reverse into someone's license plate holder, causing small dent scratch, or bump someone's wing mirror because they were parked in a traffic lane, causing slight but hardly worth bothering about damage. They demand that you pay - to them, direct, some amount or other.
Refuse!! Make them claim on their insurance, which they don't want to do, because, guess what, they will lose their no claims bonus.
Doesn't matter if its horse-caused or otherwise, let him use the insurance system to sort out; also doesn't matter if you are not insured. DO NOT LET PEOPLE BULLY YOU INTO PAYING THEM DIRECTLY!!
If insurance company were to get involved (trust me, I've been there) they would probably find liability on both sides. They hardly ever find that damage is caused by one party only. And if they realised that the other party was an uninsured kid on an uninsured horse, they might pay the driver for his damage, but would then increase his premiums substantially. They wouldn't bother to chase kid/horse.
 
When my horse stepped back onto a car parked with out permission on the yard of the lady riding her away her insurance had to pay the bill, despite the cars owner had blocked the yard and had no right to park there.
OP I think if he persits you will be liable that's why riders and horse owners must have insurance.
 
Hang on, so this guy said he is also a rider, yet he then says she shouldnt be on the road with a horse?... Then surely all 'riders' know that horses ride in the roads (if doing road work), to one side to let traffic past and not on pavements. Or have I got this wrong??

Something doesnt quite add up here... I also think this guy is trying to bully you into paying and making out to sound like he knows what he is on about.

Id be on the phone to the BHS for a solicitor.
 
Foxtrot Filly said:
Give the BHS legal advice line a call
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Best thing to do.

Samuelissimo said:
Oh, I get this c**p all the time - I live in London. You are parking and reverse into someone's license plate holder, causing small dent scratch, or bump someone's wing mirror because they were parked in a traffic lane, causing slight but hardly worth bothering about damage. They demand that you pay - to them, direct, some amount or other.
Refuse!! Make them claim on their insurance, which they don't want to do, because, guess what, they will lose their no claims bonus.
.
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:eek::eek::eek:
So YOU regularly bump other cars, causing damage (which you think is not worth bothering about as its just a dent or scratch!!) and YOU'RE getting on YOUR high horse about them wanting to claim!!!
:eek::eek::eek:
I'm actually lost for words for once (just glad I don't live near you!).
 
Tizzy said:
Hang on, so this guy said he is also a rider, yet he then says she shouldnt be on the road with a horse?... Then surely all 'riders' know that horses ride in the roads (if doing road work), to one side to let traffic past and not on pavements. Or have I got this wrong??

Something doesnt quite add up here... I also think this guy is trying to bully you into paying and making out to sound like he knows what he is on about.

Id be on the phone to the BHS for a solicitor.
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Reading the Facebook thread, the girl sounds very young and naive. Could he have meant she shouldn't have been on the road as she wasn't in control and let the horse run into his car? Guess he got quite a shock too...

Whatever happened, legal help is the way forward.
 
Given that the horse you were riding jumped sideways and hit the passing car, at a time when the driver of the passing car thought it was safe to do so (given that you'd stopped) I would imagine liability lies with you.

Do you not have rider insurance? If you frequently ride other peoples horses, you really should - it's only about £60 a year and it would cover you for things like this as well as injury to you and the horse.
 
For anyone who doesn't understand the white line part, I'm reading this as not a single track country lane but a road with cars in both directions and a white line down the middle of the lanes.
 
sorry but the rider is at fault-also just for interest sake i believe (and i know i will soon be corrected if im mistaken) that if you lend your horse to someone and there is an accident and the horse is injured ,unless they have rider insurance the horse insurance wont pay for the vet fees for the injury sustained whilst being loaned to the other rider. (hope that made sense)
 
archiepoo said:
sorry but the rider is at fault-also just for interest sake i believe (and i know i will soon be corrected if im mistaken) that if you lend your horse to someone and there is an accident and the horse is injured ,unless they have rider insurance the horse insurance wont pay for the vet fees for the injury sustained whilst being loaned to the other rider. (hope that made sense)
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The rider of the horse would only be liable if they had been in some way reckless and caused the injury.
 
all the driver has to say is the horse spooked sideways and hit his vehicle,the rider already admitted her horse spooked into the side of the car - i cant see how its different from driving down the road and swerving into another car! youd be liable for their damage that you caused!
 
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