What would you do? is it time to give up?

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Hedwards

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Hi

Its been an absolute age since i've posted on this forum, but I've always had some really good advice from people, so i'm hoping you lot can help again...

I took Connie on loan last June - she was in a pretty poor state, her feet were terrible, she had, had no 'care' whatsoever as far as we could see for a number of years (she belonged to a friend of a friend who has had some personal issues).

I got her cleaned up, feet tidied, and brought her into work slowly - she was fantastic, and we were soon out and about competing (even winning in dressage, show jumping xc etc etc.) really a wonderful little horse.

In may she went lame in her offside fore, it took vets ages to diagnose it, but eventually we found out it was laminitis (when i posted on here about this it was automatically assumed she was over weight, however vets/farriers etc have all agreed actually her weight has been just about right, wouldnt do any harm to loose a bit, but not a cause), the laminitis was only in one foot, the other had perfect balance and symmetry, so it was assumeed to be some sort of concussive effect + her confirmation (it was a boxyish foot). Box rest and remedial farriery began.

Box rest continued while she had 'imprint' shoes on, and finally we made it into steel heartbar shoes and she has been going out for 2 hours a day for about 4 months now, perfectly happily. I was advised by my vet to start riding her on our school surface and see how she goes.

Sadly, although she is sound in a straight line, on any turn she is very uneaven, and cannot canter when leading with the offside fore (right rein) without being very uneaven.

She threw her shoe the other day and was incredibly lame on the bare foot, i'm now wondering if actually its time to let her go...its been 7 months, £1000's, and much heartbreak on my side, and a very boring life stuck in a box for 22 out of 24 hours a day for her.

Its worth pointing out that although i had the mare on loan - the owner has dissappered off the surface of the planet, i tracked her down earlier in the year and managed to meet up with her, in the hope she would sign her over to me, but she wanted to see the mare, which i arranged - but she didnt turn up.

I've left countless voicemails etc. but i'm not getting anywhere. my official loan ended in June this year, i cannot return her as i dont know where her owner lives now, and i wouldnt want to as she needs proper care, boxrest, regular specific farriery etc etc. which she wont get.

Also the mare is nearly 20 years old, she is no spring chicken, so, what do you think, is it time? (Obviously i will not do anything without first getting hold of the owner and/or seeking legal advice)

Sorry very long winded, but i'm crying as i type this as i just dont know what to do for the best...

Some before and after photos so you can see the lovely girl!
The day i brought her home:
Photo0096.jpg


Supposed to be jumping small fences to build her up eventually - i think you call this taking a flyer!
ScannedImage-11.jpg


Doing a pleasure ride (the last outing a month before before she went lame )

RAFCramwell.jpg
 
Oh bless her - she looks a sweetie!

Is she on bute?

If she is then I think you are perfectly justified to consider having her pts - a decision which is obviously compounded by the fact that she isn't legally your property.

It's a tough enough decision without having the stress of having to deal with an awol owner. I hope he/she proves sensible.

I wish you all the best x
 
It sounds to me like you have given this mare a lovely life while she has been with you, but that her age and medical issues have just caught up with her now. Seems to be the kindest thing would be to say goodbye - as her quality of life probably won't get better, and as you say 22 hours in a box is no fun for any horse.

The photo's show what a huge difference you have made - so well done on giving your girl such a happy time with you.

The ownership issue complicates things of course, so ensure you get legal advice and try everything to contact the owner before doing anything. Perhaps a solicitors letter sent by recorded delivery so you know she has recieved it.

x
 
Thanks both, she really has been a wonderful mare, a little diamond in the rough, brought back my love of horses and confidence after a couple of difficult years loosing my horse of a lifetime and a time with a slightly screwed up x-racer before her.

I'm glad you agree with my thought about her future or lack of it - she isnt on bute, vets decided as she was 'sound' in a straight line and happy in her stable there was no need to continue with it (however she was on it for a number of months previously).

The owner situation is difficult - letter by recorded post would be an option if i had a confirmed address, we know for sure she isnt living in the house she was at when i took Connie on.
 
I'm afraid I don't have any advice for you other than what's been offered already.

But my thoughts are with you at this very difficult time. You obviously love the horse very much and she is so lucky to have landed in the home she has, with you. I am sure that, loving her as much as you do, you will make the best decision for her in the end. Good luck with your decision-making (this is always so hard).
 
hi don't mean to sound paronoid..............but i would talk to a solictor and police etc as techinically she is not your horse, i know the owners have vanished, but i would send a recorded delivery letter stating what you propose to do, have this letter witnessed etc

you just need to do this as a backup also see if the vets will write a letter stating why PTS etc
 
maxapple said:
It sounds to me like you have given this mare a lovely life while she has been with you, but that her age and medical issues have just caught up with her now. Seems to be the kindest thing would be to say goodbye - as her quality of life probably won't get better, and as you say 22 hours in a box is no fun for any horse.

The photo's show what a huge difference you have made - so well done on giving your girl such a happy time with you.

The ownership issue complicates things of course, so ensure you get legal advice and try everything to contact the owner before doing anything. Perhaps a solicitors letter sent by recorded delivery so you know she has recieved it.

x
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Ditto above.

You have by the looks and sounds of things given this mare a good life since you have taken her on, obviously spent quite a bit on getting her right and making sure she remains healthy, but if she's not now going to have a natural quality of life...roaming the field doing what horses do (even if she was to be retired from riding) without the risk of making things worse and being no medication then I'd have to agree, let her go, free her from any future suffering, specially if you can't insure what happens to her and of course if you can't afford to keep a horse that you can't no longer ride (as bad as that sounds).

I do hope you manage to contact the owner and she agrees to do as you wish, you know the horse and obviously care very much for her so only you know really what is bets, good luck.
 
Terrible situation for you but especially the mare. :(

As you have been caring for her so well I recommend Jaime Jacksons book 'Founder, prevention and cure the Natural way'. Contact urgently a good, experienced Trimmer and follow their advice to a tee re diet, hoof support and exercise. I don't mean to distress you further by writing this, honestly, just something to consider if all else fails. :(
 
amandap said:
Terrible situation for you but especially the mare. :(

As you have been caring for her so well I recommend Jaime Jacksons book 'Founder, prevention and cure the Natural way'. Contact urgently a good, experienced Trimmer and follow their advice to a tee re diet, hoof support and exercise. I don't mean to distress you further by writing this, honestly, just something to consider if all else fails. :(
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Hi

thanks for your reply - i honnestly dont think a trimmer can help me, Connie needs a supportive shoe, my farrier has been absolutely amazing, and frankly without him i think Connie would have been in far more pain than she has had to deal with. without a shoe her sole in on the ground, leaving her hopping lame. Thanks for taking the time to post, and i do appreciate your words, but i just dont think for Connie this approach would work.
 
hollyandivy123 said:
hi don't mean to sound paronoid..............but i would talk to a solictor and police etc as techinically she is not your horse, i know the owners have vanished, but i would send a recorded delivery letter stating what you propose to do, have this letter witnessed etc

you just need to do this as a backup also see if the vets will write a letter stating why PTS etc
Click to expand...


Hi

I need to make is really clear nothing is going to happen to Connie until i get hold of her owner, Connie is not in a state where she is in pain daily, or is particularly stressed out by her situation (quite the opposit she is so laid back she's horizontal) - I will get hold of her owner eventually - there are various different feelers out at the moment, plus i found her before so i'm sure i'll be able to do it again. with regards the letter - i just dont have anywhere to send it...
 
If she is field sound can you not chuck her out on poor grazing with soaked hay (for the lammi, just in case) take her shoes off and see how she goes? If she gets worse or is still lame on a circle in 6 months consider PTS then?
I sometimes think remedial farriery can make things worse and sometimes the hoof needs to function as nature intended to get better.
Personally I would give her that extra chance first as she looks so healthy and happy in your pictures and the above isn't going to cost much.
It's up to you though, you know her and the situation best :)
 
Thanks for taking my post in the spirit in which it was meant. :)
You are the one in the best position to decide. The Trimmer is a guide and enabler, you and the mare would be doing all the work. ;)

I wish you and the mare the best and am sending strength to you both. :)
 
firewell said:
If she is field sound can you not chuck her out on poor grazing with soaked hay (for the lammi, just in case) take her shoes off and see how she goes? If she gets worse or is still lame on a circle in 6 months consider PTS then?
I sometimes think remedial farriery can make things worse and sometimes the hoof needs to function as nature intended to get better.
Personally I would give her that extra chance first as she looks so healthy and happy in your pictures and the above isn't going to cost much.
It's up to you though, you know her and the situation best :)
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Hi

She is only 'kind of' field sound, i.e. if shes travelling in a straight line she's fine, she can only canter on the left rein etc. If it wasnt for the farriery she would be crippled, like i said in my original post, when she threw the shoe she was hopping lame, the sole of her foot touching the ground is incredibly painful for her, especially on hard ground like we have at the moment. Taking the shoes off could mean weeks/months of pain in the hope the hoof can recover itself - she is perfectly happy and healthy - but has absolutely no quality of life. thanks for your thoughts, i'd love to give her years of chance, but i worry about her life quality and happyness...
 
i think you know the answer....

as for the owner - if you have vets approval then i dont see the problem - they obviously dont want the horse and you just wants whats best for her

x
 
20 is most certainly not too old I have a 30 and 25 year old both still in work (and have suffered from laminitis in the past).

You clearly love this horse so i would not give up.

I would however be tempted to find a vet that specialises in laminitis and works closely with a farrier as this can make all the difference. Your horses feet need to be x rayed as soon as possible to determine what is going on. A diagnosis and treatment plan can then be made. Specialised shoes need to be fitted with the farrier having a prescription from the vet and also sight of the x rays.

As regards finding the owner I would suggest a person search and trace (use a company such as Sherlocks - based in Essex) who will find her for you and get you their contact details and then you can get her to legally sign the horse over to you.
 
Hello, my mare was a similar case in that she developed lameness in just one foot, she was lame for a long time before x-rays confirmed she had laminitis. I initially went with shoes but found that these didn't really help long term in that her feet deteriorated.

I eventually kept her out unshod on a track system and fed soaked hay, boots and pads that support correctly while allowing the hoof to heal meant that she wasn't in discomfort or pain.

She became sound and rideable and didn't look back, but is always carefully managed.

I understand that this method needs a bit of a leap of faith for many, but I think it's worth a shot before making drastic decisions, although I understand completely with an older horse it is that bit more difficult, but mine took a good year to get right so I wouldn't rule out it being possible for your horse.

Hugs for whatever you decide. xx
 
Hedwards said:
Hi

thanks for your reply - i honnestly dont think a trimmer can help me, Connie needs a supportive shoe, my farrier has been absolutely amazing, and frankly without him i think Connie would have been in far more pain than she has had to deal with. without a shoe her sole in on the ground, leaving her hopping lame. Thanks for taking the time to post, and i do appreciate your words, but i just dont think for Connie this approach would work.
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Have you thought about using hoof boots? My retired horse is in a similar situation to yours as he has a deformed foot which has been caused by his badly bent knee. He can't be shod as there isn't enough wall on the outside to take the nails (glue not an option as on clay) and the concussive effect of the hard ground over the last three years has taken its toll. He is lame on the turns and can't cope with hard surfaces at all, but hoof boots give him a level bearing surface and enable him to walk about fairly normally (in fact he galloped up the hill this morning, which was pretty scary to watch).

They may only be a temporary measure in his case and it may soon be time to call it a day, but they have enabled him to go out in the field on the rock hard snow/ice which his bad foot would never have been able to cope with (he was pretty crippled without the boots).

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. It's never easy to decide when to call it a day, and in your case you have the added complication of the disappearing owner.
 
P.S. Forgot to say, box rest not an option for my horse as I don't think it's fair on him as he's 16 and retired. Being able to go out in the field is a big part of his quality of life and if I took that away from him there wouldn't be an awful lot left.
 
Dietry changes are the biggest change to make for a barefoot recovery. There are numerous case studies out there now of horses recovering from severe roatation and even hoof slough if you read Jaime Jackson's books. This approach is also much less expensive than shoeing etc.
http://www.goingbarefoot.co.uk/
If she's fit and healthy otherwise it might be worth taking the 'leap of faith' Touchstone mentions. :)
 
OWLIE185 said:
20 is most certainly not too old I have a 30 and 25 year old both still in work (and have suffered from laminitis in the past).

You clearly love this horse so i would not give up.

I would however be tempted to find a vet that specialises in laminitis and works closely with a farrier as this can make all the difference. Your horses feet need to be x rayed as soon as possible to determine what is going on. A diagnosis and treatment plan can then be made. Specialised shoes need to be fitted with the farrier having a prescription from the vet and also sight of the x rays.

As regards finding the owner I would suggest a person search and trace (use a company such as Sherlocks - based in Essex) who will find her for you and get you their contact details and then you can get her to legally sign the horse over to you.
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Hi Thanks for this, i do love Connie very much, as for diagnosis & treatement, Connie has been X-rayed 5 times over the past 7 months to review her progress, and my Vet (from a very well respected equine practice) & Farrier have been working very closely together the whole time, both being there during all her shoeings & X-rays, so i'm am totally confident in what they are doing, and have no doubts about the treatment she has had - neither of them have suggested it is time to give up, but have suggested that the rotation was probably so severe that its unlikely to ever fully recover (due to her confirmation also) - we were hoping to get her sound enough to plod round the fields and be turned out - this isnt the case now.

My issue is that she's unlikely to ever be able to be a normal horse, she will have to be stabled more often than not, this is on veterinary & farriery advice (more than one opinion sought from both) for some time to come - i know 20 isnt old by most standards - however it has to be admitted she is in her twighlight years, i'd dearly love to think that she will get better, but my issue is who am i doing this for her or me??

As for tracing the owner - that's going to cost a bit of money by my guess - at the moment all of my spare cash goes into keeping connie comfortable so thats a no go - i will find her, but i'll do it the DIY way i think. good idea though, just not for me.
 
i think your farrier and vet are he best people to ask.

although - if they advised theres nothing more that can be done and you make the decision to pts without consulting the owner i would try and get written statements from vet/farrier. also contact the police and let them know about his, and perhaps the rspca as it is basically an abandonment/ negligence case. not you - the owner.

its a horrible thing to have to do but you will need to keep a legit paper trail from official bodies. and perhaps proof that you have tried to contact the owner. as in this day and age - you can be guaranteed shell kick up a fuss and try and sue!!!

i really hope it doesnt come to that and you find a solution!
 
amandap said:
Dietry changes are the biggest change to make for a barefoot recovery. There are numerous case studies out there now of horses recovering from severe roatation and even hoof slough if you read Jaime Jackson's books. This approach is also much less expensive than shoeing etc.
http://www.goingbarefoot.co.uk/
If she's fit and healthy otherwise it might be worth taking the 'leap of faith' Touchstone mentions. :)
Click to expand...

Hi

I'm really sorry, but like i've said barefoot is not for me or Connie - i've watched her literally hopping in pain without her shoe, and i mean hopping to the point she wont even move across her stable to food. i'm not willing to put her through that on top of everything else - in her shoes she is comfortable. From a diet point of view - looking at the website you've linked to very briefly - she already basically has a 'barefoot' approved type of diet ie. no cereal whatsoever, a mineral supplement & high fibre chaff & excellent quality hay. Thanks for your thoughts, but its not something i'm considering at this point.
 
Here I go with a small piece of advice...may or may not help.
I teach a lady on a horse who is a walking vet bill and he has had a similar problem with one of his front feet being a bit boxy.
After all sorts of farriery stuff, our farrier came up with Nikes for horses!:) We call them Nikes as they are expensive.:)
They are gel pad inserts which fit between hoof and shoe.
To say this has changed her horse's life is the understatement of the year.
Why not ask your farrier if you could try these? I can't help but feel looking at the lovely photo of you and her extending so happily, that possibly you have just not found the right product yet.
Sorry I can't remember the name of the gel pads and my farrier is away, but if he had them they must be gettable.
I just think you have one thing stopping you and from reading your replies I feel sure this may well be your answer.
Best of luck:)
Bryndu
 
Rueysmum said:
Have you thought about using hoof boots? My retired horse is in a similar situation to yours as he has a deformed foot which has been caused by his badly bent knee. He can't be shod as there isn't enough wall on the outside to take the nails (glue not an option as on clay) and the concussive effect of the hard ground over the last three years has taken its toll. He is lame on the turns and can't cope with hard surfaces at all, but hoof boots give him a level bearing surface and enable him to walk about fairly normally (in fact he galloped up the hill this morning, which was pretty scary to watch).

They may only be a temporary measure in his case and it may soon be time to call it a day, but they have enabled him to go out in the field on the rock hard snow/ice which his bad foot would never have been able to cope with (he was pretty crippled without the boots).

Good luck with whatever you decide to do. It's never easy to decide when to call it a day, and in your case you have the added complication of the disappearing owner.
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Hi

Yeah i have looked into the boots option - and i discussed this with Vets & my farrier, but the consensus was that they would make very little difference to Connie (she had imprint shoes on for some time before steal shoes, which have basically the same effect as the boots (with pads etc etc) and the improvement was no more significant in them than in steal - however i may now re-consider them (as aweful as it sounds its the cost that also worries me, Connie is not mine, and is not covered on her insurance for this, i have already spent in the region of £2500 on her purely on getting her right not even considering her livery & 'running' costs) Thank you for this - i will definitely look into the possibility of boots again, and keep my fingers crossed for your boy!
 
Jenni_ said:
i think your farrier and vet are he best people to ask.

although - if they advised theres nothing more that can be done and you make the decision to pts without consulting the owner i would try and get written statements from vet/farrier. also contact the police and let them know about his, and perhaps the rspca as it is basically an abandonment/ negligence case. not you - the owner.

its a horrible thing to have to do but you will need to keep a legit paper trail from official bodies. and perhaps proof that you have tried to contact the owner. as in this day and age - you can be guaranteed shell kick up a fuss and try and sue!!!

i really hope it doesnt come to that and you find a solution!
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Hi

Yes i will & have consulted my Vet & Farrier, however i find some of the advice and comments on here are also really useful. again I will not be making any 'decisions' about Connie until her owner has been found (it may well be all decisions are taken out of my hands when i find her). Also i am unwilling to suggest the owner is abandoning or has been negligent - while i wouldnt have her on my christmas card list - she has had some personal things happening which mean i want to be sensitive to her situation too.
 
It sounds like you are doing everything you can, she looks amazing in the ride pic- lovely long stride length and a smile upon her face- although she's 20, don't let that put you off, don't give up, be positive, and with time and the good shoeing and care she is getting, she may still make a good recovery yet. Wishing you lots of luck, she looks a lovely mare!
 
No advice at all I think you are doing your very best for her already. But just to say what a lucky girl to have found you for a loan home. I really hope you get hold of the owner soon and that things can be resolved for you and her one way or another. 20 is not old but neither is it very young and I think it is brave to consider PTS when the often the easy option is to carry on trying everything, when in your heart you feel it is not for you or her.
Whatever the outcome good luck and stick to your instincts - you know her best.
 
I just wanted to add my experience, as my girl is also an atypical lami case, and some of what we've found out may help.

Mine got it in the middle of winter, previously healthy, worst in one hoof. That hoof is always the first to show signs now, yet it is no different in structure or trimming than the other three. Mine wouldn't come sound and got it again and again. Through a long period of trial and error I have found that the following work, and she's been in full work, sound and healthy for over a year now. Just though it might be posting in case there's something you haven't tried...

Ok foods:
- Timothy horsehage (or 24hr soaked hay, but the horsehage is best)
- oat or other straw
- ERS nuts (she's a poor doer - the irony!) which are v v low in starch
- speedibeet (or other unmollassed beet)
- high fibre cubes (in summer) from Spillers

Things that help:
- yeast

Trigger foods that make her more 'on the edge' or actually cause footiness:
- more than 1/2 hr grass daily (muzzled in bare paddock)
- alfalfa
- hay
- normal haylage
- any other 'feeds' other than those in the 'ok' section

Management:
- at one yard we were lucky enough to have a grass free paddock.
- at the moment she goes out once a day for 1/2 hr muzzled, then is ridden in the evening. She's happy with this, and at least nothing hurts!

I was in contact with a fair few other people with similar lami cases when my girl went down with it, and she's the only one still alive. Mostly because I won't turn her out and make her ill, however mean others think I am keeping her in. She gets plenty of exercise, twice a day if she can't be turned out, and enjoys life.
 
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