What would you do? Long post...

[Irish gal]

Agree with other posters, put him on turn away livery with a herd. I had 25 horses out together in a big herd last winter and they were all far too busy with their place in the pecking order to try and make any solo runs!!

It is wonderful for them to be in a herd, works wonders on their heads - it's their natural state after all. After a couple of months of that he may well have forgotten about this bad episode and settled down again. There's a lady does retirement livery in Devon (I think) at £25/week but there must be plenty of other places. Good luck with it.

 

[njc]

Been at work and just caught up with the replies . Have to say I agree with those recommending large field 24/7 turnout with stable companionsand ditching all feed unless he absolutely has to have meds or an essential supplement then I'd be looking at a token feed of the plainest lowest energy/calories I could find. It's a personal view but I would change yards for my horse's needs and have done before. I do see the difficulties though if you see yourself as giving up a good yard for a broken horse, do you have grass livery near you that you could afford on top of your current yard
My only other thought is could your vet and a good instructor work with you on a rehab programme

 

[lelabell]

How can I turn him out 24/7. The sod just jumps out. He jumped out a field with the gate at 1.40m and another field with a wire fence of 1.20m. There is no places near me that has horses in a field, that has high fences and can accommodate a horse that has attacked geldings in the past and gets attached to mares.
I already pay a silly amount for livery at this place so cant afford anything on top.

 

[MissMistletoe]

Was he that stressed and unpredictable before the injury and box rest?

Could you move him somewhere that has 24/7 turnout with a stable herd in a big (preferably undulating/sloping) field? Ideally you want the horses to stay in the field too, so possibly look at retirement/injury liveries that offer field rest? I'm basically thinking about 'letting him down' for a few months to 1, calm his mind and 2, give the knee a bit more time to recover.

Agree 100%

 

[Ladyinred]

How can I turn him out 24/7. The sod just jumps out. He jumped out a field with the gate at 1.40m and another field with a wire fence of 1.20m. There is no places near me that has horses in a field, that has high fences and can accommodate a horse that has attacked geldings in the past and gets attached to mares.
I already pay a silly amount for livery at this place so cant afford anything on top.

I am sure you realise that every suggestion made you have turned down and that you will be left with only one option. I am not being nasty... just honest. There is no magic formula that will turn him overnight into the horse you had when you bought his... sadly everything seems to have gone beyond that point. If he can't be turned out and won't be happy in because he can't exercise enough then you have only one choice. A sad one, but, I think ultimately the right one for him and for your peace of mind and safety.

You will get a lot of support on here, many of us understand what you are going through, and it isn't nice. We have one who is unsafe to ride but we are lucky enough to have a place he is turned out with his best pal, but if that ever changes he will be PTS, he isn't safe to ride and under a different routine he can be dangerous to handle as well.

 

[Possum]

Honestly OP? It sounds like you've made your mind up and looking for us to tell you it's ok. And it is - it doesn't make you a terrible person, it sounds as if you've tried really hard and the vet would support your decision.

Apologies if I've completely misread you, but you sound as if you've reached the end of the road and there's no shame in that - it's hugely difficult to try and rehab a tricky horse with no definite light at the end of the tunnel, particularly when you're still grieving for the one you've already lost.

 

[ester]

I suspect I may have met hereshoping's horse. In which case he is on 50 acres with huge hedges that no one could jump over (and ways of securing the gate if required obviously), that and all the boys are out there so why would you go elsewhere . So places like that do exist.
However if you can't do that/don't wish to spend anymore money on the horse then PTS before either of you get hurt. Or get him on something a bit more properly sedative (valerian etc route) rather than magnesium based calmer.

My only other thought would be whether his previous owner would think this behaviour normal for him when on rest and whether they might have any other ideas.

Although if the original break was thought to be back last September why does the vet think it will get any better than it is now? In some ways it seems odd to have box rested a horse with such an old break.

 

[Arzada]

I haven't read all the posts, so someone else may have already said this.

I would take him off ALL feed except hay/grass that hasn't been prescribed by the vet. So no supplements or calmers, and definitely no TopSpec. It could be that an ingredient on one of these is causing his behaviour to get worse and worse.
Then I would look for somewhere where he could be turned out on a huge acreage with companions and turn him away for months at least, so that he can heal and chill.

Yes I'd try this too. Huge acreage in a stable herd which is basically retired. I don't know your horse and you know him well but I really can't see why a horse wouldn't settle in this sort of environment. Even better if you both could stay there once he resumes work - he'd be settled and he'd know that the herd is always there whenever he returned from your rides etc. Hard to find but you never know you may find somewhere

 

[Arzada]

How can I turn him out 24/7. The sod just jumps out. He jumped out a field with the gate at 1.40m and another field with a wire fence of 1.20m. There is no places near me that has horses in a field, that has high fences and can accommodate a horse that has attacked geldings in the past and gets attached to mares.
I already pay a silly amount for livery at this place so cant afford anything on top.

Sorry I've just seen your post above - please ignore my reply a few moments ago suggesting that you may find somewhere with large acreage etc near you

 

[Barnacle]

Honestly I don't understand why anyone is considering putting this horse to sleep... He's recovering from a knee injury (apparently progressing well enough since he can now be ridden) and is obviously going a bit nuts from confinement. Am I missing something? The horse needs to be turned out somewhere and left to recover fully. If he jumps fences, get some bigger fencing or add some electric fencing to the top. The turnout doesn't have to be huge and he doesn't even need company. Just turn him out in a small high-fenced space for him to get over the confinement - then move him out to be with other horses.

OR someone experienced needs to be brought on board to do groundwork with him regularly to settle his mind and give him more structure so he isn't going stir crazy. If the horse actually has aggression issues unrelated to this whole knee box rest thing, you simply need to get someone experienced to help you sort it. It doesn't sound like a bad case at all. Many horses will threaten (or even try) to kick their handler out of frustration and even more so when they have been boxed.

Another option is sedation and turnout. I know a horse who fractured a shoulder and went absolutely insane on box rest (kicking the walls and trying to jump out of the stable). Was a somewhat riggy gelding so also could get himself into trouble with other horses. Once he was well enough for walking, he was sedated and turned out. It took a while and he had a few months in and out of the induced fog... But now he's very happy and working again.

 

[Polos Mum]

a yard with stallion facilities might be able to contain him

I've seen turnout pens built with the 10 foot crowd fencing panels (he ain't getting over those with no run up)

Specialist rehab livery with pools etc might be worth discussing with your vet (or insurance co if £££'s a problem)

Personally - retirement livery for a year would be my choice - but I think time is the key to most things and I'm often wrong - in a herd (or mares - which he'll obsess over but who cares as he won't be leaving them) and in loads of space - he will chill

Equally - nobody will take him on in his current condition and if you have run out of time/ £'s/ patients with something that's dangerous to handle under his current mgmt. routine and won't come right for what you want - then PTS is fine too.

 

[ester]

Honestly I don't understand why anyone is considering putting this horse to sleep... He's recovering from a knee injury (apparently progressing well enough since he can now be ridden) and is obviously going a bit nuts from confinement. Am I missing something? The horse needs to be turned out somewhere and left to recover fully. If he jumps fences, get some bigger fencing or add some electric fencing to the top. The turnout doesn't have to be huge and he doesn't even need company. Just turn him out in a small high-fenced space for him to get over the confinement - then move him out to be with other horses.

OR someone experienced needs to be brought on board to do groundwork with him regularly to settle his mind and give him more structure so he isn't going stir crazy. If the horse actually has aggression issues unrelated to this whole knee box rest thing, you simply need to get someone experienced to help you sort it. It doesn't sound like a bad case at all. Many horses will threaten (or even try) to kick their handler out of frustration and even more so when they have been boxed.

Another option is sedation and turnout. I know a horse who fractured a shoulder and went absolutely insane on box rest (kicking the walls and trying to jump out of the stable). Was a somewhat riggy gelding so also could get himself into trouble with other horses. Once he was well enough for walking, he was sedated and turned out. It took a while and he had a few months in and out of the induced fog... But now he's very happy and working again.

I think because the OP doesn't seem very receptive to moving him (and losing place at current yard) or making changes to his existing situation and as they cannot afford to send him away for schooling I presumed the money wouldn't be there to get professional help on the yard either.

I am still curious if this is normal for this horse out of work, OP hasn't really had him long enough to say, or if there are other factors in his situation which is leaving him unsettled.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

On reflection, I would get rid of the vet as well. He didn't manage to recognise the original imjury to the knee and his advice now about hard work is just ludicrous.
I have had a horse which reacted extremely badly to glucosamine, which I imagine is the main ingredient in your joint supplement OP, so even if you insist on feeding the rest of the stuff, I would definitely stop that, unless you have made up your mind to pts without trying any of the things that have been suggested..

 

[Regandal]

What about something like Rigcalm? He sounds a bit hormonal!

 

[Broodle]

Do you know what? It's oh so easy to say 'turn him out', 'move yards', 'do more groundwork' etc etc, much less easy to actually do these things! Especially if you have already invested months of your time and plenty of money on a horse who seems intent on self harming and injuring you...

In your shoes if I loved the horse like a family member then I'd try everything suggested. If the horse scared me (and yours would!) and I had the vet's support, I'd pts. You don't need anyone's permission, and you don't need to justify your decision.

Good luck!

 

[leflynn]

My issue with finding a huge field for him and others is that I would lose my space at my current yard, and cant afford to be paying for 2 places. I fear him jumping out of fields, schools and all his leaping around may have damaged his knee more.

But when he was on feed at the start of his lameness he was fine. Just normal cheeky self. Surely if it was the feed it would have shown up before now and he would be awful to handle on the ground as well?

If you're paying a lot for your yard then it seems pointless as they are not able to support your needs, so either way you'll not need them for much longer if you PTS or move yards. Mine used to escape on our old yard, moving yards settled him down and he stopped escaping - maybe he's trying to tell you he doesn't like it there or its just not the right place for him (I'm sure its a lovely yard).

It can take time for it to build up and become an issue.

An to another poster it is easy to say move yards, do this, do that but its just as hard to PTS, plus some on here have expereince of this, still I hope the OP can find the right answers for them in their situation

 

[ester]

Do you know what? It's oh so easy to say 'turn him out', 'move yards', 'do more groundwork' etc etc, much less easy to actually do these things! Especially if you have already invested months of your time and plenty of money on a horse who seems intent on self harming and injuring you...

In your shoes if I loved the horse like a family member then I'd try everything suggested. If the horse scared me (and yours would!) and I had the vet's support, I'd pts. You don't need anyone's permission, and you don't need to justify your decision.

Good luck!

Of course it is but on a forum there isn't much more people can do but just suggest it!

 

[Speedyfluff]

The horse sounds very unhappy. I wonder if there is more going on than just his knee. OP, you cannot safely ride him, he won't be turned out with or without company, and he sounds a very unhappy boy. There is worse you could do than put him down. Though I do wonder if he could be turned out on sedalin and gradually reduce it until he gets used to the turnout. It is probably what I would do as a last ditch attempt to avoid PTS.