What would you do? - New horse issue

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Booga22

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I bought a 12yo ISH just around 3 weeks ago, while he is a laid back dude in the yad and to handle (from the moment he came off the box - I know I'm lucky lol), he is rather an a*se to hack out.
I appreciate he is still settling in, and was expecting spooks, shys, snorting etc, what I wasn't expecting was the napping to leave the yard, slamming all 4 feet to a halt, spooking at absolutely anything & everything, then standing up on the old hind feet,, spinning and attempting to peg it!!
I tried the sit there quietly and ask him to walk past the hideous object - an white stone and a puddle, yes I'm an evil rider, however even sitting quietly his first port of call is to stand up.
Tried plan B, leg and pushing forward etc, bigger rears and more spinning. (This was in company btw)

I tried him on the road before I bought him - no problem atall, however I am concerned (albeit I know it's early days but...), his first reaction is to stand up at he is well built 15.2hh so they are not small. 'Arguing' or asking more forcefully results in more colourful rears/spins.
He is well schooled, jumps nicely, well bred and is lovely to do, however the hacking is going to be a mahoosive problem. His old owner has since divulged that she used to hack him in a standing martingale "just in case something happened" - can't get her to elaborate any further.
I was very clear with them (verbally & in writing) on this horse's intended purpose, but if he reacts the way he does now - is there hope of him changing?!

What would you guys do? Feeling very fed up about it all atm as have had a rotten 18 months + with the neds :(
Thanks in advance and well done for getting this far - only salad on offer & even I don't want it :)
 
Oh dear. Is it worth trying him in a standing martingale?

My new pony tried it on quite a bit (no rearing) so they can do that out of the blue but she was genuinely trying it on rather than it being a really engrained problem.

The SM might help you get him past the trying it on, strange he was ok at yard. Have you changed all his tack and did he have SM on when you rode him out there?
 
Sounds like a lack of confidence, especially considering that you haven't had him that long. I'd give him a bit more time to settle in and get used to you before you do any more hacking out. Instead, I'd try taking him around your usual routes in-hand so he knows where he's going and can take confidence from you being at his head. If he's happy with this you may then need to have someone else lead him with you on board and can gradually reduce their influence (i.e. have them walk ahead, then drop back, etc) until he's happy to just listen to you. Doing some ground work with him and getting him working from voice commands should be helpful too.
 
FfionWinnie said:
Oh dear. Is it worth trying him in a standing martingale?


The SM might help you get him past the trying it on, strange he was ok at yard. Have you changed all his tack and did he have SM on when you rode him out there?
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He had just his standard bridle on when I tried him. He seems to be traffic proof but that's it if that makes sense? He is in a different but well fitting saddle (he didn't come with his own saddle unfortunately) but his bridle/bit is the same.
I have kept his feed the same and he is turned out as per his old routine
The running martingale I put on made no difference at all. Its just a shame as he is a lovely horse but......
 
Try a standing martingale, or even draw reins if you're confident enough. But how is he to hack out in company?

BUT, I'm afraid he'd be going back, if I'd bought him. He's not settling in, he's taking the 'proverbial' and sounds dangerous.
 
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celia said:
Sounds like a lack of confidence, especially considering that you haven't had him that long. I'd give him a bit more time to settle in and get used to you before you do any more hacking out. Instead, I'd try taking him around your usual routes in-hand so he knows where he's going and can take confidence from you being at his head. If he's happy with this you may then need to have someone else lead him with you on board and can gradually reduce their influence (i.e. have them walk ahead, then drop back, etc) until he's happy to just listen to you. Doing some ground work with him and getting him working from voice commands should be helpful too.
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I'm hoping it is just confidence. I am trying to keep him mainly in the school atm (not asking big questions, just letting him get used to the yard/surroundings)
He isn't the best to lead atm, I think he has been allowed to plod along at his own pace, and if he doesn't want to go any faster or not go up to something, he plants or indicates he wants to go backwards though doesn't run. I have been gradually getting him used to walking up along side and he is slowly improving with this.
Could be an idea once i have worked more on this and further ground work, to try what you have suggested.
I'm just worried that the first thing he is does is stand up, rather than this being a last resort.
I am trying to get more info from the previous owner as I don't want to get stuck with a horse who doesnt like/want to hack. He came from a competition yard so I wonder if he has predominatly done that rather than leisure riding too
 
My old pony was very spooky, absolutely fine to hack when I tried him out but very jumpy and nervous when I hacked at home especially alone. I agree with celia in that taking him in-hand is worth a try as that's what worked for me. Then again said ponio was only 14hh and slight so wasnt nearly as strong as your boy sounds! Keep us updated with your progress I'm sure you'll have him sorted in no time. Again, it took my pony alot longer than 3 weeks to settle properly so a combination of in-hand work and becoming more settled should improve things :)
 
did they tell you he was a rearer?

I have had a couple of rearers, but i found that standing martingales are hit and miss, one would still go up (admittedly not quite so high).

Get him checked out - too late for bloods (testing for dope) but i would get him looked at.

Having sat on one who went up and over and rolled on top then in hospital - i urge you to get him sorted or send him back asap.
 
hum sounds very much like my new boy! altho we had no rearing or napping to that extent, however,
got horse home, laid back, chilled, happy, perfect in the school, i had as you hacked him out before i bought him, he was confident, happy to be out, no spooky no nothing,
first couple of times i hacked him out at home, snorty, eyeballing things, spooking, trying to spin, ask him to stand still when a car came past, yeah right! dancing around in the road, and this was always in company, so what i did was just kept taking him out but the same route, so every other day i would hack him down the same lane and back again with another horse and every time i took him out he got better and better, i think with mine he was just settling in and hes perfect on the road now, back to what he was like when i tried him.

hopefully yours will setttle down as well, but i know rearing is a bit different and a lot more dangerous!
 
Put on the standing martingale , did they always hack him out in one ? If it's a yes then It's likely it was an issue in the past .
 
amymay said:
Try a standing martingale, or even draw reins if you're confident enough. But how is he to hack out in company?

BUT, I'm afraid he'd be going back, if I'd bought him. He's not settling in, he's taking the 'proverbial' and sounds dangerous.
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I rode him outin company when I tried him, and I have tried alone & company at home

I'd tend to agree with you - it's one thing spooking but rearing is a whole other matter

Trying to be sensible and think with head & not heart.....
 
I agree. A sm is different to a ruining martingale.

The seller saying she used one just in case is a red flag to me. She can't very well admit he did it with her but why would you use a sm just in case!
 
I feel your pain! Having also had what seems like rotton luck for the last 12 months, mine doesn't seem to be improving much either. I have just bought a new one that isn't turning out to be quite what i was hoping for! She has only been here a week though and they do take quite a while to settle into a new routine so i'm still hoping i haven't bought a complete dog.

I don't know how confident you are or what your situation is/what you want to do with the horse but personally i have now decided that life is too short and however fond I get of them I will not keep a horse that is 1. dangerous and 2. that i dread the thought of riding. Horses cost us a fortune and often a lot of heartache, we are meant to enjoy them, yes riding any horse is a risk sport but do you really want to keep a horse that's first reaction to being asked to do something is to stand up and rear? I think I would be having serious thoughts about sending it back unless all you want to do is work him in the school. As a wise man said to me the other day, a leopard rarely changes it spots and he is 12 not 4!

Best of luck with whatever you decide, hope it works out!:)
 
FfionWinnie said:
Blooming iPhone. RUNNING not ruining!!! Arghh!!!
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A ruining martingale could join the ranks of scary bits and spurs!

But do hope OP finds a way with her new horse. How long do you have before you can say to sellers, take him back on trades descriptions grounds?
 
Dancing Queen said:
did they tell you he was a rearer?

I have had a couple of rearers, but i found that standing martingales are hit and miss, one would still go up (admittedly not quite so high).

Get him checked out - too late for bloods (testing for dope) but i would get him looked at.

Having sat on one who went up and over and rolled on top then in hospital - i urge you to get him sorted or send him back asap.
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No, they failed to mention it! I specifically asked what he was like at his worst/excited etc, and they said the worst he did was "jig-jog". His advert clearly states "no vices"

In the school, he works beautifully but.....

I too have had a horse come back and over but was fortunate to escape with cuts & bruises. I don't want my luck to run out
 
The seller saying she used one just in case is a red flag to me. She can't very well admit he did it with her but why would you use a sm just in case![/QUOTE]

Exactly what I thought when I got the email through t'other day.......

I have spoken with a solicitor for a quick bit of legal advice and she reckons I'll have a job to prove they knew he did it, but a horse does not learn to just stand up over night!
 
give it more time ..they can change, do some groundwork..theres no bond there yet ..no trust...draw reins and an SM could just make things worse...if the behaviour is coming from fear .Get aot happier in the school and take stuff slower.Our mare was a nightmare...shes changed completely ..they can change for sure:)
 
madmav said:
A ruining martingale could join the ranks of scary bits and spurs!

But do hope OP finds a way with her new horse. How long do you have before you can say to sellers, take him back on trades descriptions grounds?
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I have been advised to write a "strongly worded" letter to the seller, stating the horse has been misrepresented and is being rejected, then give them a time scale of say 10 days before I say I will instigae proceedings in a small claims court

Wheres all the fun gone :(
 
I have to say if I had just brought a 12yr old horse that I was hoping would be easy and it reared repeatedly out hacking I would be sending it right back! Rearing is dangerous and they should have disclosed that to you.
 
TED2010 said:
I feel your pain! Having also had what seems like rotton luck for the last 12 months, mine doesn't seem to be improving much either. I have just bought a new one that isn't turning out to be quite what i was hoping for!

Sorry to hear you're also having problems with what is meant to our hobby

I don't know how confident you are or what your situation is/what you want to do with the horse but personally i have now decided that life is too short and however fond I get of them I will not keep a horse that is 1. dangerous and 2. that i dread the thought of riding.

I don't like the idea of riding him out as he is so quick to react - with his ears forward the whole time. He is meant to be"bold xc" but refuses to put his toe in a puddle!!

Horses cost us a fortune and often a lot of heartache, we are meant to enjoy them, yes riding any horse is a risk sport but do you really want to keep a horse that's first reaction to being asked to do something is to stand up and rear?


^^^^^ this exactly. If the rear was a last resort after everything else had failed and he was actually scared, it could be more justified but the first thinh he does is go up

Good luck with yours!!!!
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wildflower said:
give it more time ..they can change, do some groundwork..theres no bond there yet ..no trust...draw reins and an SM could just make things worse...if the behaviour is coming from fear .Get aot happier in the school and take stuff slower.Our mare was a nightmare...shes changed completely ..they can change for sure:)
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I'm hoping he will change, just don't want to come a cropper trying. He is very quick when he goes, and I have sat the rears and spins but it's horrid as you just don't know which way or what he is going to do.....

The annoying thing is he isn't scared - he just doesn't want to do as he's asked!! The first rear was out of the blue going up the hill from the yard, and thena rock - you've gotta watch out for those rocks...!!!

I want horses to be fun again - please?!?!?
 
Dancing Queen said:
do you have it in writing no vices? what does your receipt say?
personally get shut.
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Yup, I ensured I had it in writing - even used the original advert as part of the receipt

They also had a full description of what i wanted to use him for - and I stressed hacking, fun rides etc alongside competing
 
TED2010 said:
I feel your pain! Having also had what seems like rotton luck for the last 12 months, mine doesn't seem to be improving much either. I have just bought a new one that isn't turning out to be quite what i was hoping for! She has only been here a week though and they do take quite a while to settle into a new routine so i'm still hoping i haven't bought a complete dog.

I don't know how confident you are or what your situation is/what you want to do with the horse but personally i have now decided that life is too short and however fond I get of them I will not keep a horse that is 1. dangerous and 2. that i dread the thought of riding. Horses cost us a fortune and often a lot of heartache, we are meant to enjoy them, yes riding any horse is a risk sport but do you really want to keep a horse that's first reaction to being asked to do something is to stand up and rear? I think I would be having serious thoughts about sending it back unless all you want to do is work him in the school. As a wise man said to me the other day, a leopard rarely changes it spots and he is 12 not 4!

Best of luck with whatever you decide, hope it works out!:)
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Totally agree with this.

I lost my confidence because of buying the wrong horse. Life is too short. Its meant to be a hobby. I am now getting my confidence back riding my daughters new horse. Who is exactly as she was described - OP they are out there.
i dont believe horses at this age suddenly develop this issue unless its pain related. Which from what your saying isnt the case.
I would, (as you are doing) get some legal advice and take this further

Good luck xx
 
Several thoughts on this one as I have been both seller and buyer over many years. Firstly, why not talk to a trainer / instructor about how to overcome this naughtiness, secondly I'd suggest working the horse in the school first, or lunging to take any edge off before you head out hacking. Many, many horses try it on with new riders and even start doing things they've never thought of doing before, so it's not necessarily the horse being misrepresented to you. Finally, I fail to see how either a standing martingale or draw reins are going to stop a horse that wants to stand up doing so - more likely to cause an accident IMO. Riding FORWARDS is the answer to backward-thinking horses, and rearing is the ultimate "I won't go" response.
 
Asha said:
Totally agree with this.

I lost my confidence because of buying the wrong horse. Life is too short. Its meant to be a hobby. I am now getting my confidence back riding my daughters new horse. Who is exactly as she was described - OP they are out there.
i dont believe horses at this age suddenly develop this issue unless its pain related. Which from what your saying isnt the case.
I would, (as you are doing) get some legal advice and take this further

Good luck xx
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Thank you - just feeling so disheartened at the moment as thought I'd landed on my feet with this one after searching for so long. It would help if he wasn't so sweet on the ground or in the school - or basically, not hacking!

I think a large glass of wine, or 2 are in order tonight then start putting pen to paper in the morning.

Thanks all very much xx
 
Cortez said:
Several thoughts on this one as I have been both seller and buyer over many years. Firstly, why not talk to a trainer / instructor about how to overcome this naughtiness, secondly I'd suggest working the horse in the school first, or lunging to take any edge off before you head out hacking. Many, many horses try it on with new riders and even start doing things they've never thought of doing before, so it's not necessarily the horse being misrepresented to you. Finally, I fail to see how either a standing martingale or draw reins are going to stop a horse that wants to stand up doing so - more likely to cause an accident IMO. Riding FORWARDS is the answer to backward-thinking horses, and rearing is the ultimate "I won't go" response.
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I have a session booked for this sunday with a very good, and honest trainer, and he is having the saddler out tomor to try and eliminate any potential there

I ensured I rode him forward but after a while, driving with your seat and legs for the whole ride drains you and I have a bad back and constant 'over-riding' (and I don't mean pony-club style legs!) does finish my back off.

I don't want to give up, just don't want to get hurt and/or cause an accident.

Hopefully we'll get some positive answers over the wekend,

Thanks again
 
Does he exhibit the same behaviour in company? If so, and given the 'red flag' from the seller I would be very tempted to demand they take him back. Sounds like a longstanding issue.

If he is ok in company, it sounds to me like a confidence issue and one that is possible to overcome.
 
I wouldn't go in guns blazing threatening court action yet. Better to go back to the seller & explain the situation & hopefully u can work something out amicably. Iv u don't mind me asking did u gave the horse vetted? I take it this was a private sale?
 
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