What would you do with (potential) problem pony

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littlen

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A friend who I livery with bought a 13hh welsh pony for her nervous daughter about 7 months ago. She is a very pretty black mare who is about 5 years old. She was green but safe.
I care for this mare on a daily basis. The pony was bought to do lead rein, gentle hacking and possibly some PC in the future once she matures. Old owner is not contactable as she appears to have changed her number (or is avoiding lady!)

The pony has always been 'flighty' but recently her behaviour has changed and my friend does not know what to do as she is quite novice as is her daughter, who is 7 years old. The main problems she is having are that:

-The pony will not stay in the field if her friend is taken away. She has ran through electric fencing to get to her friend (despite other horses being in the field) If another horse is removed from the field pony goes crazy, galloping around the field, kicking everything in sight and charging the gate hoping someone will bring her in. When she is brought in she bolts to the stables and is difficult to lead.
- She will not tie up. If tied up she will rear and spin about.
- She has bitten and kicked.
- She is a nightmare in the field (kicks everything in sight, charges the gate etc.)
- Very hormonal mare, at times you cant get near her.
- Difficult to change rugs etc as she is nippy and wont stand, if you tie her she rears so catch 22.

Despite all of this, pony hacks out with an adult fine. She also will school on the LR nicely, if she is lunged beforehand.
I can handle her with few problems, she is silly to be lead and wont stand etc but I can manage with a growl and firm hand (by that I mean forcing her to stand, not beating her!), daughter cant.
Personally I think she is a baby who needs to learn some manners. Daughter loves pony and wants to keep her despite never being allowed to handle her. I would gladly help teach pony some manners if i knew how, I also have limited time to work with her due to my own horses. Lady who owns her is too novice to know what to do, and has little time as its her daughters pony not hers (even though daughter is too young to teach pony herself)

If you were in this situation what would you do?
Get rid of pony and hope she gets a nice home, despite daughter wanting to keep pony?
How can I help this lady solve these problems?
I am experienced but have never really dealt with such a young potentially aggressive pony and I am not quite sure how to handle it?




Thanks everyone!
 
Greywelshie,

I don't think any of the problems you describe are unsolvalbe, but it will take time and effort and it sounds that at the moment the pony isn't suitable for a nervous handler/rider or novice.

So if neither the girls mother nor you have the time or knowledge to deal with the problems and getting regular outside help ie working with an instructor isn't an option, there is no choice but to sell the pony, hopefully to a more suitable home.

If the kid likes the pony and you feel you can deal with the ponys issues go for it and involve the girl as much as possible.
 
Novice owner with a young pony is not a good combination. None of these problems are unusual or insurmountable, but as others have said, if neither the owner or you have the time to teach the pony manners she would be better off in another home before things get worse.

Might be an idea to try a calmer specifically for mares or possibly even Regumate if nothing else works (although to be fair it does not sound like a mareish problem, just a green pony but you never know).
 
I would like to help them, as I have seen a nice side to the pony and she can behave sometimes.

Unfortunatley I have my own horse who has his own issues that I am dealing with so I dont really have time to work with 2 'problem' horses. I can help the lady to an extent, show her what to do but the lady is not consistant enough to teach her by herself. I also dont know what to do with some problems as what works for my horse does not work for this pony so I need some new ideas!?

Girls mother wont allow daughter near the pony until it is 'fixed', as in she wont let her handle it (she is allowed to ride on a lead rein though as pony is okay)

She does need lots of work. Mother is hoping that the pony will improve in summer once shes being worked more.

Daughter gets riding lessons at a riding school, I will ask if an instructor can come and help her, but I dont think the daughter wants lessons on her pony as it is unschooled and she finds it difficult off the LR.
 
If it were me I would advise them to sell it and get an older pony that the daughter can actually enjoy and have fun on and spending time with. I think 13hh seems quite big for most 7 yo and 13 hh of bargey welsh is plenty!

I think that it might improve a bit in the summer but pony has now learnt all these traits which need dealing with and mean that it is likely to be a long time until this pony is suitable to be handled by a 7 yo child.
 
How long has this lady had the pony? It sounds to me like the pony is unsettled in her new environment and with the new routine - my young Welsh D was like this the first year/18 months.

I do think the lady was silly buying a flighty young pony for a nervous child.

Really I think the best outcome for all would be to sell the pony to a more confident adult and child, and buy an older, quieter pony for her daughter.

If the child isn't allowed near the pony at the moment, then what is the point?

It could take months and months for the pony to settle and become more mannerly but that's only going to happen if the owner is strict and bold with her.
 
I would definitely recommend an RA or other trainer to come out and work with both pony and handlers. I nearly had one of mine PTS because he was so hard to handle and didn't realise I was making the problem worse. It is amazing what can be done in a short space of time (mine reared once with the RA and has never reared since) as long as everyone is handling in the same and correct way. Good luck with her, she sounds like she will be a nice pony if she can be settled
 
I assume you';re on the same yard? would a change of yard where she has someone experienced to help her be a viable option?

Horses can pick up when someone's a novice, and when problems like this arise, it's not something a novice can easily deal with due to lack of confidence. Your friend will struggle with this alone.

So either she needs someone who will help her build her own confidence and will help teach this pony some manners or she sell. The problems are on the ground so she's not unsellable as is fine ridden.

How long has she had the mare? and did she buy it from a dealer??

I *think* personally, that i would sell. It's meant to be for a child, and the child is getting no fun or experience from a pony she cannot handle. What if it kicks the child? Your friend will never totally trust it even if they do get over these issues.

People who sell such horses/ponies to novices need shooting. It really gets my goat. A friend was sold a horse last year that she was told she could 'learn to ride' on. She'd never sat on a horse before, bought this 14hh NF off a lady and later realised , after sitting on it, it hadnt been broken in or anything and she didnt know that horses are generally unbroken at three years old... yes had I known her at the time I'd have stopped her, but too late now! The lady who sold it to her is a breeder!!
 
Im not sure exactly where she got the pony, but I believe it was a private home. The pony was fine to begin but her behaviour started to deteriate once winter came. My friend was assured that the pony was 100% in all ways and was when she was tried out or else she wouldnt have bought her. She wasnt intending to buy a pony for her daughter but when seeing this pony advertised she decided to bite the bullet but wishes she hadnt now. If she were to sell the pony she would not replace it, hence the daughters worrying I think!

She has had her about 7 months and she settled well I think, but I could be wrong!

My friend does not want to move yards, she has many friends on the yard and also owns 2 other horses (aged 33 and 28) and she dosent want to move her older horses as they have been on the same yard for a long time.

I have tried being firm with the pony, but it seems to go in one ear and out the other with her. There are many other experienced people on the yard we are on who have tried to help, one who has had horses 40 years and she said she would not put a child on her. The other liveries are giving advice but it isnt working, proberbly as the owner is quite a quiet type and does not like telling the pony off. I must admit I did give the pony a tap on the nose last time it bit me...and it proceeded to try and bite me harder!
 
What has changed with winter? Less work? More feed? Less turnout?

Something is likely to have prompted the change and might help sort things out, but for the behavioural issues i think they need someone to help who has genuine experience of this kind of thing, I think a Kelly Marks RA rather than just the local instructor.

At the end of the day even if they sell the money won't wasted as it will help them in the interim and help them sell it.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I must admit I did give the pony a tap on the nose last time it bit me...and it proceeded to try and bite me harder!

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it needs more than just a "tap on the nose"...
 
From your description it appears your friend has an extremely intelligent pony who has learnt it can behave appallingly!

As the owner is a novice and she chooses to persevere with the pony then she needs some lessons in handling it. I agree with others suggestions regarding a Kelly Marks RA or someone experienced in handling young, ill-disciplined horses. Sounds like a lot of ground work lessons are needed!
 
It sounds like the pony has been allowed to get away with things because the owner is inexperienced. Unfortunately there isn't a quick fix for this. If the woman is adamant about keeping the pony I would suggest hiring a professional to train her or to send her away for some lessons. That being said, the owner and her daughter should be involved in the horse's training (it won't help if she is sent away and learns some manners but the owners still have no clue the right way to correct her when she's bold).

It mustn't be very much fun for the daughter if she isn't allowed near the pony! Especially if it's meant to be her pony!! I recommend selling her and getting something more experienced. I know kids tend to be more fearless (and the bounce better than adults) but it'll be worse for the child if she suffers a bad fall and has her confidence shattered! Please keep us updated on what they finally decide to do!
 
What about suggesting they loan out this pony to someone who can school her and give her some experience. 5 is terribly young and she clearly needs a firm hand for a while. Then use the money coming in to loan or share something more suitable for themselves. That way they don't have to sell, but the daughter still stays safe and keeps her confidence.

I have freinds who faced this young horse / young rider problem and this was a good solution for them. In time Pony will come back just as daughter is old enough and experienced enough to really make the best of her.
 
As the saying goes - "Green on green makes black on blue"!

It is difficult to re-train a pony when the young girl could ride it, or her mother handle it, as before and confuse the pony or bring the pony back to square one again!
This pony needs patient, understanding handling. It sounds like he is confused abnd thus feels the ened to fend for himself. With unclear boundaries, unfamiliar surroundings and new people/routine to adjust to, it's no wonder his behaviour has deteriorated.
I think that, unless his owner takes responsibility and do the right thing by putting the pony's needs first: a more confident and more experienced home would probably suit him best.
Good luck!
 
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