What would you do with this 'dangerous' horse?

J

Jynxed

New User
Joined
15 June 2014
Messages
9
Visit site
I got my horse Alfie about two months ago. He's a six year old suspected warmblood cross cob who came over from Ireland last year, and was told when I brought him he had a few problems mounting, but fine when ridden, so I took him on as a project.

I fell in love straight away and rebroke him, spent a month doing ground work and he was fab. After a lot of work with the mounting block, leaning over him etc. and when he had accepted me then, I started sitting on him, walking him around with someone leading, then got off, and he was fine! We walked him out on a tiny hack with someone holding him and he was again fine, then I got on him and rode him round with no one holding him, and even had a trot.

Then problems started. I rode him twice more on my own, and he reared three times when I was asking him to do things, and went up vertical (was close to falling backwards). I have had it all checked (back etc.), he was horrible with the dentist and was rearing too much with her for her to have a proper look (coming back soon with sedation), but said his teeth wouldn't be the cause for it as they looked great from what she could see. I have since tracked down his owners to the first woman who brought him over from Ireland,who told me he had been unpredictable and dangerous then, and obviously he has never calmed down. He was broken and gelded late which doesn't help at all.

I have an experienced trainer coming on Monday to help me with him, but I don't have the balance or experience to sit and deal with the vertical rears, which is dangerous for us both (I've stopped riding him). I don't know whether he'll make a riding horse again if this has been going on for years, and I'm tempted to break him to drive and see if he enjoys that, because I can tell he just hates being ridden. But I have no interest in driving, so I don't know what I'll do with him then.

Thanks!
 
When you say you have had things checked what did that include? Back incl. workup for things such as kissing spines etc, saddle done by saddler, have you done a huge trial?
If there seems to be no pain related reasons and you + instructor are positive that he isn't going through teenage years and taking the p***, due to the fact this is ongoing I would be considering a bullet. Harsh I know without seeing him
 
*argh hit reply to soon sorry.
It is hard without knowing him and your own situation/ experience but life is too short to be risking your neck with a rearer. One false step and you may be under them.
 
You really don't want a horse that goes over backwards in the trap either. Truthfully be tough PTS before he seriously hurts someone unless you want an expensive pet. He's unlikely to be a successful project as you'll never feel happy passing him on to someone else knowing what he is capable of so cut your losses now. If he was a much loved homebred horse I may think differently but if you've bought him to produce to sell then you may need to be hard.
 
I'd get him checked to rule out pain, then see if an experienced trainer can work him through it.

If not, then I'd probably have him shot. There's too many good horses out there to risk your life with a bad one.
 
xspiralx said:
I'd get him checked to rule out pain, then see if an experienced trainer can work him through it.

If not, then I'd probably have him shot. There's too many good horses out there to risk your life with a bad one.
Click to expand...

Sorry OP, but have to agree with this. I certainly wouldn't even consider putting him in harness; its dangerous enough having a horse that rears from a ridden point of view, but just think of the devastation that could ensue were he to do it in the shafts - it seriously doesn't bear thinking about :(
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
Sorry OP, but have to agree with this. I certainly wouldn't even consider putting him in harness; its dangerous enough having a horse that rears from a ridden point of view, but just think of the devastation that could ensue were he to do it in the shafts - it seriously doesn't bear thinking about :(
Click to expand...

As above.
Please don't put yourself at risk. As others have said, if not pain related then do consider a bullet. I'd also say, please don't sell her on either - if anything happened to the next person you'd never forgive yourself. Good luck.
 
Ah thank you, I'll scrap that idea then. I thought it might be an alternative, but now you say that, it could be equally as dangerous. I'm pretty sure it's nothing pain related, I think he was left a stallion for too long and that behaviour hasn't left him, and as he's been allowed to get away with it in the past (he was with a novice of all people only a couple owners ago!). Our dentist told us that he's extremely dominant and that's possibly the main cause of the rearing, and if asked to do something he doesn't want to do, he will fight it by rearing. When lunging he will sometimes charge/kick/rear/buck at me on purpose, and he has already kicked me simply because he didn't want to do something, he's just not very good with not being dominant!

I have been told to get rid of him by a lot of people, but I don't really want to pass him on because I know he'll end up worse or injuring someone. I'm going to have a talk with the trainer tomorrow and see what he says, as I'm not sure I'd be able to have him put to sleep, but it may be the best thing...thank you everyone!
 
Most male horses don't have the mental strength to be left entire which is partly why they are gelded (apart from preserving the quality of stock), it is very sad for your boy that somebody thought otherwise
 
Jynxed said:
I got my horse Alfie about two months ago. He's a six year old suspected warmblood cross cob who came over from Ireland last year, and was told when I brought him he had a few problems mounting, but fine when ridden, so I took him on as a project.

I fell in love straight away and rebroke him, spent a month doing ground work and he was fab. After a lot of work with the mounting block, leaning over him etc. and when he had accepted me then, I started sitting on him, walking him around with someone leading, then got off, and he was fine! We walked him out on a tiny hack with someone holding him and he was again fine, then I got on him and rode him round with no one holding him, and even had a trot.

Then problems started. I rode him twice more on my own, and he reared three times when I was asking him to do things, and went up vertical (was close to falling backwards). I have had it all checked (back etc.), he was horrible with the dentist and was rearing too much with her for her to have a proper look (coming back soon with sedation), but said his teeth wouldn't be the cause for it as they looked great from what she could see. I have since tracked down his owners to the first woman who brought him over from Ireland,who told me he had been unpredictable and dangerous then, and obviously he has never calmed down. He was broken and gelded late which doesn't help at all.

I have an experienced trainer coming on Monday to help me with him, but I don't have the balance or experience to sit and deal with the vertical rears, which is dangerous for us both (I've stopped riding him). I don't know whether he'll make a riding horse again if this has been going on for years, and I'm tempted to break him to drive and see if he enjoys that, because I can tell he just hates being ridden. But I have no interest in driving, so I don't know what I'll do with him then.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

He's six and worked out exactly how to put the frighteners on his riders. He needs a sympathetic, determined & experienced rider on his back to sort him out. Not PTS!
 
Try a gastroguard and gut support trial unless you've made your mind up op. KS is another thought as well. You have no real idea of his previous experiences if he came from Ireland and through ? owners in the last year in UK. .
Stallions and late cut geldings are ridden all the time so anyone who says he is trying to dominate you is someone to walk away from imo. He needs understanding not dominating! I agree you shouldn't pass him on as he is and you have to weigh up your options which may well not include a quick fix if you decide to try, so stay safe.
 
But it's the case of finding that sympathetic, determined & experienced rider, not someone that will make it worse or neglect him or send him to slaughter. People aren't always what they seem, he could end up in the wrong hands so easily.

Putting him to sleep will be the last option though, I will try my hardest to find him the best home and the best home only if my trainer thinks that that is the best thing for him:S
 
A heal;th check is the point to start. After that, I'd hack him in running reins (as a 2nd rein) and if he tried to rear, I'd spin him hard on a circle (and repeat, as necessary.) You HAVE to be quick - because if they get right up before you use the running rein there's a risk you'll turn him over. I've cured a few this way! It's the only thing I use a running rein for!
 
Not helpful advice really apart from what everyone else has already said but if you can find nothing wrong, he gets sorted or something *In short terms - you get back on him* then please ride without your stirrups - saves you getting seriously inured or worse, killed if he does go over and put a standing or running martingale on to grap the neck strap.
 
I'm not allowed to ride him at the moment, my parents are too worried he will hurt me and I'm not balanced, quick enough or gutsy enough to do so. I think it'll be stupid me getting back on and just asking for trouble! But thanks everyone!

And hacking isn't an option anyway, we took him out a few times and all he did was nap and threaten to rear, regardless if there was someone leading him, another horse with us, no horse with us.
 
If you really want to keep this horse than maybe find a professional breaker/re-schooler who has guts and good reviews or someone who mainly does problem horses otherwise as said pts is the best option here. :(
 
Good. Don't ride him. I bet your boy is sharp as a tack. He just needs an older rider who has seen it all before & doesn't sweat it. Good luck. The riders are out there.
 
I would be the last person to tell someone inexperienced to do something that puts them at risk, but i do feel that 2 months including the re-breaking period is no time at all to write him off. As blazingsaddles says he needs someone experienced to sort him out (and i mean that in a sympathetic way, not in a give him a good beating kind of way). If an expert with problem horses tried, failed and then told me he was dangerous, THEN I would consider PTS rather than pass the problem on.
The above assumes that a) the potential of any physical issues causing the problem has been checked first, and b) you can find someone with lots of experience to sort him out - Richard Maxwell/Jason Webb type experience
 
JanetGeorge said:
A heal;th check is the point to start. After that, I'd hack him in running reins (as a 2nd rein) and if he tried to rear, I'd spin him hard on a circle (and repeat, as necessary.) You HAVE to be quick - because if they get right up before you use the running rein there's a risk you'll turn him over. I've cured a few this way! It's the only thing I use a running rein for!
Click to expand...

You need to be a bloody good rider to do that without getting hurt. Effective but very dangerous.

OP, this sounds like an older horse that due to been cut late is displaying riggish behaviour - do be careful because if he does mean to harm you (IE charging on the lunge and kicking) he could very,very easily put you in hospital or the grave.
Get the trainer to have a look by all means, if you're when tense riding him then it may be causing him to rear. He isn't ridden in a curb is he? If he is then try him without (In an enclosed area)
If you choose to persevere with him then find a good trainer and have them help. Don't let any ego fueled backstreet experts knock him about - or bunny huggers spoil him. He needs clear training and boundries from someone who knows what they are doing. Good luck with him.
 
blazingsaddles said:
He's six and worked out exactly how to put the frighteners on his riders. He needs a sympathetic, determined & experienced rider on his back to sort him out. Not PTS!
Click to expand...

I completely agree with the above but I do realise the problems mentioned below.

Jynxed said:
But it's the case of finding that sympathetic, determined & experienced rider, not someone that will make it worse or neglect him or send him to slaughter. People aren't always what they seem, he could end up in the wrong hands so easily.
Click to expand...

We have a tricky one here at the moment and although not a rearer, horse has proved rather challenging, so I do understand where you're coming from OP. The one here had been partially trained but there appears to be some holes so I have taken horse back to square one and am teaching everything from scratch. Improvements are being made every day and the horse is starting to progress and I'm sure all will be fine in a month or two. I'm putting in a lot of time with this one and am working the horse reasonably hard and am pushing the horse and this approach seems to be doing the trick.
 
lastchancer said:
You need to be a bloody good rider to do that without getting hurt. Effective but very dangerous.
Click to expand...

lol, I've stayed alive for many years since I first had to use that tactic so I guess that makes me bloody good (or lucky!)

From what the OP has said about her own confidence/experience, she shouldn't be riding him at all! The ONLY way to cure a rearer who is well established in the vice is to get super tough - and you HAVE to have the skills.

This sort doesn't warrant being PTS - particularly when still young. They CAN be sorted - quite quickly too - so if OP can afford to put him on schooling livery for 8 weeks, that would probably be enough (although the little poppets CAN revert to the rearing if they swap to a rider they think it will work with!)

If he's advertised honestly - at a lowish price - there will be someone out there who will buy him (and hopefully cure him.)
 
I ride English, he's ridden in a plain snaffle and I try to be as soft as I can with my hands due to his age. (:

I'm not going to lie and big myself up as some experienced rider, I don't think I'm the right person to sort him out, and I'm not prepared to keep getting on him and risking anything.(:
 
I'm never a fan of pts but you can NOT sell this type of horse on it is just irresponsible, if the next owner promises the world and then sells him the next day to a total novice and has him doped up to the eyeballs he could kill someone. He needs someone well enough trained to work with him and horses like him need worked into the ground for a while lots of free lunging if you have the space, if not, chase him around the field (use all the safety gear you have) and put some manners in him the way a horse would, chase him back him up chase him from his dinner etc etc. Just generally boss him about until he surrenders then try again.
 
The problem with getting a professional to help is that they may be able to ride the horse through its issues, and even possibly eliminate the problem, but sometimes when a less experienced rider gets back on, the horse reverts to type......

I don't think I would ever be able to trust a horse with that history, so would be looking for a non ridden/companion home, or pts as a last resort.
 
equi said:
I'm never a fan of pts but you can NOT sell this type of horse on it is just irresponsible, if the next owner promises the world and then sells him the next day to a total novice and has him doped up to the eyeballs he could kill someone. He needs someone well enough trained to work with him and horses like him need worked into the ground for a while lots of free lunging if you have the space, if not, chase him around the field (use all the safety gear you have) and put some manners in him the way a horse would, chase him back him up chase him from his dinner etc etc. Just generally boss him about until he surrenders then try again.
Click to expand...

Fxxk me. I wouldn't want to get on your wrong side. You're not a horse, you're a human being. No wonder some domesticated animals are so screwed up - owners pretending to be the animal & the animal like wtf! Firm, consistent behaviour is needed not the fear of God.
 
equi said:
I'm never a fan of pts but you can NOT sell this type of horse on it is just irresponsible, if the next owner promises the world and then sells him the next day to a total novice and has him doped up to the eyeballs he could kill someone. He needs someone well enough trained to work with him and horses like him need worked into the ground for a while lots of free lunging if you have the space, if not, chase him around the field (use all the safety gear you have) and put some manners in him the way a horse would, chase him back him up chase him from his dinner etc etc. Just generally boss him about until he surrenders then try again.
Click to expand...

Whatever you do, ignore this.
 
Hmmmmm..... You've obviously missed something in your retraining....

Something must have confused this horse. Or it be pain.

So you said, you retrained him with groundwork.... What did you do exactly? Lunging? How long? Over some poles? Reintroduced the bit correctly? Introduced trotting properly with bit contact on the lunge? How long did you spend doing the retraining?

You have missed something I'm sure of it.
 
So you've re-broken him over the past 8 weeks (well less if you've stopped riding him). What were your techniques?

You say you've had all the checks done? Does this include a saddler and a full health check from the vet?
 
I would send him to a "take no ****" professional with a set time limit for learning the rules, or at least showing vast improvement. If there's little to no improvement pts, if issues are sorted take him back and press on, if there's some improvement but horse is still tricky then either continue working with the pro on your partnership with the horse with a view to further improvement, or get the pro to sell him on for you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top