What would you do with this 'dangerous' horse?

[Holly Hocks]

If you don't want to PTS then you need help. Why not send the horse to a professional and if the horse can be sorted, AND the professional thinks it suitable, let the professional sell the horse for you. Then you can get yourself something more suitable and enjoyable.

 

[Tern]

And i don't know about others but i certainly would not have got on a problem horse that i just re-backed after a month - i would take it right back to basics and treat it as a 3 year old that needed to learn again - At his age, if someone told me th ehorse had mounting issues you know that something has not been right in the breaking in method used as he's probably been broken 2 years max?

 

[Echo Bravo]

Jeez, Some saying pts, when all it needs is time and patience and a lot of TLC, every animal comes round with the right handling, only those that have really badly abused have a question mark. This horse needs to be taken back to early handling and then taken on slowly so he can build up a trust bond with his new owner, no horse is nasty just what people have let him get away with.

 

[smellsofhorse]

I think PTS is a little extreem at this stage.
Although I dont think OP shouldm get back on, there is someone out there that can sort this horse.
AFTER he has been thoroughly checked over.
A full work up, teeth, saddle, tack, chiropractor, etc, the lot!

Is seems like pain, but could be he is still so inexperienced and he may come across as dominant but is really very scared and unsure.

 

[Equi]

I don't mean scare the horse out of it's wits just make it respect your space. Jesus you can't say anything on here that doesn't involve shooting something. I know it's a hunting forum but come on!!

 

[Scarlett]

Ah thank you, I'll scrap that idea then. I thought it might be an alternative, but now you say that, it could be equally as dangerous. I'm pretty sure it's nothing pain related, I think he was left a stallion for too long and that behaviour hasn't left him, and as he's been allowed to get away with it in the past (he was with a novice of all people only a couple owners ago!). Our dentist told us that he's extremely dominant and that's possibly the main cause of the rearing, and if asked to do something he doesn't want to do, he will fight it by rearing. When lunging he will sometimes charge/kick/rear/buck at me on purpose, and he has already kicked me simply because he didn't want to do something, he's just not very good with not being dominant!

I have been told to get rid of him by a lot of people, but I don't really want to pass him on because I know he'll end up worse or injuring someone. I'm going to have a talk with the trainer tomorrow and see what he says, as I'm not sure I'd be able to have him put to sleep, but it may be the best thing...thank you everyone!

Being 'pretty sure' it's not pain related means nothing. Before anything you need to have a full and comprehensive work up done on the horse by a vet, have him sedated and his teeth looked at and all the necessary xrays/injections/treatment/whatever, plus a saddle fit check.

Horses dont have bad intentions, they react to the situation they are in. You cannot say it's not pain without knowing fully. If pain IS ruled out then you need to look at your training/riding as what you're doing obviously isn't working. I'm appauled that you're thinking of shooting a horse that hasnt had a thorough vet check! Totally unacceptable IMO and I'm certainly no fluffy bunny about having horses pts....

 

[Spring Feather]

OP if you are able to, and have the wherewithall, then I would seriously suggest you send the horse to Janet George who has posted above. Her training methods work! And you'll get results. It would be worth putting the money up and investing in your horse.

With the horse we have at the moment that I mentioned above, generally I share the work with horses who come here to be backed or trained, this one I'm doing myself as it is such a tricky character. If I were in the UK I'd offer to help but I'm not and the one person I know who will do an excellent job of transforming this horse is Janet and her crew. Seriously, think about it.

 

[ribbons]

When you are positive the problem is NOT pain related. He needs work, hard work and then some more. Pussy footing round this sort is a disaster, he'll always be one step ahead of you. He will probably be a super horse in the right hands with a serious job to do. Some horses really need to work hard, otherwise they think up other ways to occupy themselves. Boredom and too much energy in an intelligent horse will always cause problems.
I hope you can find the right person to sort him out, he sounds a very useful sort. But take note of a previous posters comment. Someone else may get him going well, only to find he reverts to bad behaviour at any time he has too much time on his hands or his rider is less than determined.
Would be a shame to wright him off just yet.

 

[Gwyntbryn]

We had rearing and napping problems with a just cut gelding whose history we knew completely. He had been properly broken in and had also been well handled from birth. It was obvious to me that it was pain related, so we had all the normal checks done, teeth, back, saddle, etc, and then decided to give him some time off. Observing him eating one day he appeared to be uncomfortable, so I had him scoped for ulcers, and bingo, severe ulcer disease. He showed none of the classic symptoms, was never etc, but there is was. A couple of courses of Gastropoda and he was scoped clear, and was a much happier horse. But unfortunately he still remembers the pain and cannot be ridden in a manège. He is however a superb hack. So even sorting out his physical problems may not necessarily completely cure the behaviour. However, sensitive firm handling may after sorting out any physical oroblems

 

[AshTay]

OP - I feel your pain.
I have a gelding who could be described as dangerous although he's not a rearer or kicker and his behavior doesn't seem to be aimed at getting his rider off, more like running away from something.
I've always suspected pain and we did find something that could have caused his behavior, treated it, did a long slow rehab and then the behavior recurred again once ridden work started. He was also bad to mount when I got him but I spent a long time working on him and he does now stand still.

I agree that PTS is not the answer just yet and if you can afford to send him for schooling then that would be sensible.

If a carefully chosen professional can't sort him out then assume pain. Is he insured? If so, and there's nothing immediately obviously wrong with him (lameness, tenseness) then a bone scan would be a good starting point. talk to your vet.

 

[STRIKER]

Gelding and breaking late has nothing to do with it. He rears when you ask him to do something different so is not confident and the rearing is napping, having ruled out all pain issues. Whats he like with another older horse as a lead horse. I would go back to basic and long rein for miles. See if an experienced person can get him going for you, but unless you a confident on his back, no mayter how much training he gets he is going to feel nervous under you. If he was a racehorse he would be going out with the string, he would get a good wallop for rearing and made to go forwards. He would be put back in long reins, he wouldnt be allowed to get away with it. Pts is an easy option when he could be a very nice horse, nice mix of horses in his breeding.

Here here equi, and if you say something no one elses agrees with you get shot down, lol

 

[fburton]

Our dentist told us that he's extremely dominant and that's possibly the main cause of the rearing, and if asked to do something he doesn't want to do, he will fight it by rearing.

I wouldn't say that was dominance though. In fact, it seems a bit of an odd use of the word to me.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

When you are positive the problem is NOT pain related. He needs work, hard work and then some more. Pussy footing round this sort is a disaster, he'll always be one step ahead of you. He will probably be a super horse in the right hands with a serious job to do. Some horses really need to work hard, otherwise they think up other ways to occupy themselves. Boredom and too much energy in an intelligent horse will always cause problems.
I hope you can find the right person to sort him out, he sounds a very useful sort. But take note of a previous posters comment. Someone else may get him going well, only to find he reverts to bad behaviour at any time he has too much time on his hands or his rider is less than determined.
Would be a shame to wright him off just yet.

agree, but its a tough one to call.

you could spend thousands sending him away and a tough clever rider will get him going, but the second you get back on and hesitate he will be back to rearing as he's obviously not the most genuine of horses and knows how to intimidate you.

if you sell him (and there are people that would have him, albeit cheap as chips) you risk him at some point ending up being labelled a nut job and either left to rot or abused.

He's the sort i would look at-i like a challenge and i dont mind rearers (my own horse rears).

as per post above, if 150% not in pain, with a good hard job to do and a good routine, he would probably settle.

Mine reared as a 2/3yo on the track and reared an awful lot with me(dressage) as a 4/5/6/7yo still. he has a very consistent routine, is only handled by people who dont mind standing up to him, is not pushed to hack/jump or to be fussed and messed with, he has his job and he is expected to do it (and that the only battle i pick with him)and i dont stand for any of his jive when he is worked.

he is competing small tour and schooling GP as a 9yo and is starting to become a really nice, happy, easy,trustworthy, horse. Going for short walk hacks, given a couple of schoolmaster lessons etc.

he is happier in the stable and easier to load/catch etc as well as becoming a pleasure to ride but its been a long old road with lots of crashing lows and frustrations.

he can be turned around but you need to think hard as to how you go about it.

 

[Blythe Spirit]

Thinking about working with horses that go up - personally I would suggest that OP sends the horse to a professional and sees whether they can get to the bottom of the issue. As OP clearly feel in love at first sight with this horse I feel that she may be reluctant to send the horse to a pro after some of the descriptions of how to deal with horses going up. In my experience - not vast but I am interested in how people work with problem horses so I have seen a fair number of riders dealing with this kind of issue - and IMO the real pros in fact do what seems like very little to 'solve' the problem. They 'just' stay on and continue to very calmly ask the horse to do what ever they wanted. They don't hit, spin, pull or do anything - they just sit on and patiently carry on. So OP if you find the right pro it does not have to be a nasty experience for your horse. I have seen this 'do nothing' method work with really really established rearing and for several different pro's.

 

[muckypony]

You can't sell this horse on, nor do I think you can have him PTS at this point. You need to be 110% certain that this is not pain related. Then I would get a professional on him, someone experienced with rearers.

Its really tough with a rearer, I bought a project 10 months ago and a few weeks in he became very nappy and started rearing. I was totally on my own without help and some days he terrified me. Several times out hacking I thought he was going over on me. Now 10 months down the line I've finally got there. He is also 6, cut late and was a late starter. IMO this has nothing to do with it. He was just a bolshy youngster that had gotten away with far too much before.

Don't ride him if you don't feel confident, he needs a firm and experienced rider and he will get past this.