What would you do with this horse?

This sounds like my horse, he was treated for ulcers but eventually we found the ulcers were caused by further issues. If it was mine I would get the vet to do a full lameness check. Mine was lame in both back legs so until he was nerve blocked you couldn't see it. If you can, have a body scan done this way you will know which areas may be casuing the problems.

With regard to the jumping - mine would jump on one rein and not the other. He would also kick out when I asked for canter - this was before he was treated for ulcers

Good luck
 
Hi I have recently had a very similar problem to you.
Bought a horse that was known to be a bit difficult - exceptionally well bred and talent to burn.
She is a total sweetie in the stable, didnt have a clue how to interect with other horses.
To start with she was fairly pleasent (ish) primarily due to being unfit I think we had a few battles and after a years reschooling turned into a nice little mare. She then had a couple of months off came back in looking a million dollars back in work she was a complete witch!! She was more than happy to jump went really nicely at competition but riding at home was like taking your life into your own hands and hacking out was for adrenaline junkies only. She was checked by back people etc vet said she was sound no problems with seasons feet were fine all tack fitted fine teeth fine - everything.
Eventually we came to the conclusion that she was dangerous to ride a friend of mine wanted to take her on as a broodmare due to her breeding, confirmation and ability she has her own stallion which tends to pass on his nature (which is lovely). When she took her on she refused point blank to stand for the stallion to the extent that she was rearing and trying to box at him. The lady got her checked out by the vet internally and she had problems with her womb and overies this was treated she has just had her foal which she took first time after. She is now interacting with other horses and I am convinced that it was ovary pain which was causing the problem so an internal scan in my opinion would be worth trying.
Tea and biscuits if you made it this far
 
Countrychic said:
Just a random addition, I find her odd with other horses. She seems to be really friendly and grooms them or sniffs them then within a split second she changes and double barrels them. No warning, I've not really seen anything like it. She isn't really mareish though, I don't see any change with her seasons
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Definitely check the ovaries, especially as it's pretty cheap to check out. My mare was exactly like this and didn't change with her seasons either. Turned out one of her ovaries was the size of a grapefruit! This also meant that she was really one-sided as she was constantly trying to make herself more comfortable.
 
It is difficult, and is agree with Doug a Bute trial. However, I was advised by my vet to give my mare 2danilons 2xdaily for a proper indicator, as otherwise its not always enough. Your mare also sounds like it's ovaries, but wouldnt surprise me if there was foot pain there somewhere too....painkiller trial first and go from there :)
 
Spoken to the vet who isn't convinced we should do the bute trial. He thinks we should x ray for kissing spine. Then if not he thinks it's just behavioural so now I'm having to re think?
 
Out of curiosity, what does your vet feel the risks of the bute trial and why is it contraindicated? Not second guessing but genuinely curious. I have had similar conversations in the past and while I am generally a big fan of vets and the work they do, I am curious that so many of them seem categorically against this cheap and POSSIBLY helpful option. it seems a bit close minded to me. Also, I hate to say, but what is your vet's qualification for accurately diagnosing a behavioural issue?

Again, NOT second guessing, just offering alternative experiences but I have this year alone met three horses "diagnosed" as having behavioural issues by their vets who turned out to have underlying physical issues.
 
Jessicaginger poo sample showed my mare didn't have ulcers but when scoped she has grade 4 ones so scoping is the only real indicator.

Op I had a struggle to get my mare diagnosed my vet was sure I was going crazy but she started bucking, kicking out at my leg and rearing, we did a short bute trial as she is a known ulcer suffer and it made no difference, I pushed to get get referred to rossdales and she was only 2/10 lame she turned out to have mild hock arthritis causing SI pain and possible proximal suspensory damage now treated I have my lovely kind calm mare back! My vet couldnt believe the difference in her just loitering around the yard, good luck but I would get her investigated maybe if she isn't insured try thermography
 
Reading this has cheered me up. I was getting upset today thinking about the possible outcomes when my mare goes to Newbury on Monday. Best outcome is they find something and its fixable (and the number of you saying your horses have been fixed has really helped me) if they say there's nothing wrong then I need to decide what to do with my mare who apparently hates work. If there's something wrong that's not fixable then I think I've decided on field ornament or loan out as a companion as she's happy to sit in a field.
 
Horses aren't nasty. They don't just decide not to do things for no reason. Either something hurts, or is at the least uncomfortable, or they're scared/lost confidence in their ability to do that thing. Some require you to say NOW! and some require you to say 'come on, good boy/girl, you can do it', but they're not inherently nasty. A few were badly socialised as foals/youngsters, but even those come around with patience.
 
just a thought, at the start of summer when my mare was in season she was trying to mount other horses... is that a sign of ovaries? we are getting her scanned for ovaries in the next couple of weeks
 
Personally would try 6 weeks+ on Regumate - mine will be a totally cantankerous witch about me touching her with my right leg if there is any ovarian activity and can be generally tense/obnoxious/spooky off it - on it she is a different horse. She also gets very sexually frustrated (for want of a better word!) out in the field without it and will happily groom/flirt (not linked to seasons i might add) and then, when she doesn't get any, turns and boots whoever she is with. She's done it out hacking before too and would be a sod to hack with more than one other horse due to jealousy (I presume??) issues, again picking a buddy and trying to boot anything else that got too close or friendly. However, on the Regumate she is a different horse! The biggest problem we have now is that the behaviour before the Regumate has both established so bad habits and seriously knocked my confidence so I have issues which become transferred to her (e.g. I still find it difficult to put any pressure on/force an issue/go on fast hacks in a group for fear of what she might do, even though in reality she doesn't do anything more than any other horse with her (lack of) experience). But that's another issue!

I would then say, if the Regumate has no effect to either do a bute trial (and a minimum of 2 bute twice daily) or bite the bullet and go for the full lameness work up.
 
She's had 2 days on 3 bute so the plan is to try her tonight and see how she feels, will continue with the bute for a week. If she's no better or worse I will try regumate then try treating her for ulcers. I too am very concerned I will never trust her again.
Even if she improves but is not the horse for me I can find her a good home. Fingers crossed.
 
I'm not 100% sure, just to be difficult!! I've ridden her twice and can't make up my mind.
I thought she was more forward in the trot but in a strong way whereas her trot is usually quite soft and has good rythmn. There was less kicking out in the canter but she did it a bit and then properly bucked so I growled at her and gave her a bit of a kick and then she worked better.
She still feels like she is always looking for something she can do to stop you working her properly. I'm never relaxed on her, looking at pictures I ride her totally differently from the others.

Anyway, new plan is she's off bute and I've remembered the feeling she gave me on it so will have a couple of rides, assess the kicking out situation, then rethink.

Not quite as cut and dry as I'd hoped.
 
My experience is that bute trials are not definitive, even if they're quite aggressive. After all, if you had been struggling with significant back pain, say a week on a moderate dose of ibuprofen would not fix the problem. All you're looking for are clues.

Interesting you say about the strongness. The traditional view has been that but gives horses hard mouths. While I can see the reasoning (leaving aside that it admits the point of bits is to cause discomfort) you have to wonder how often it was just that horses felt more comfortable in themselves and either keener our less compliant.

Also, a lot of training is based on negative pressure - we put the leg on until the horse moves etc , and so any long term discomfort can shape behaviour.

I don't mention this in particular reference to the OP but more generally because I often see people - even vets - downplay any changes in a horse on a trial because they don't feel they're significant enough. If all you've changed is the meds and there is a change in the horse, it's worth noting.

Add in the complication that a horse with ulcers may actually get WORSE on bute and it's not so simple!

Hopefully you'll see another common result - the horse is worse after the trial! I find the same effect myself when I take anti-inflamatories - I don't necessarily think.I feel much better when I'm taking them but boy, do I notice when I stop taking them!
 
Thought I'd update this thread. I did the bute trial and found no change, she had totally stopped the kicking out on it but also was fine when I took her back off it. We've had some decent work off her until today.
I thought I had left it too late in the year to trial regumate but she came into season yesterday so I ordered some from the vet which should be here tomorrow. Tonight she was a total nightmare. Swapped which was her good rein and today she decided bucking was the way forward. Very strong and hot today. Will see how regumate goes!
 
I too have an update :)

My mare is ulcer free so she went to the vet today to scan her ovaries...

he did all the lame tests again had a good feel around then it was my time to ride:eek: i havent ridden her at all lately just walked her out as she was getting progressivly worse..
so on board i get and everytime i put my leg on she bucked and threw her head around..i kept on at her but she didn't settle

Vets Verdict.. she's taking the P*SS!!! another vet was watching from a distance and agreed!
she did still have her ovaries scanned and one was considerably bigger than the other but this could be due to the fact she was in season not so long back..(so im told)
she's had bloods taken for hormone tests and ive got to try her on carmex daily and start riding again....

im still not sure its behaviour but then again she is a chestnut mare:rolleyes:
 
In short, our exracer mare was a very talented event prospect who showed moments of excellence interspersed with moments of strange madness. She would, without warning, rear over backwards.. even when coming home froma quiet hack out. We persevered for 5 years as the goodtimes made it all worth while. She was never lame and we had numerous opinions on her from animal communicators, physios and vets who all said it was a behavoural problem. She also threw her saddles to one side when being ridden.

In the end we sent her to NEH for a bone scan... 8 kissing spines and a broken pelvis (old injury from racing).

The damage was too great and too old to rectify. We had her PTS last summer.

OP, you dont say whether youve had a scan and what the results were ?
 
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