What would you do?

[LaurenM]

As some readers may already know, my horse has just returned from reschooling due to napping. He is still taking off with me when being ridden but it is thought that it is part fear, part because he knows he's alot stronger. He is currently being ridden in a gag

Some of the other liveries are advising me to sell him to the local dealer as I have lost my confidence with him. The trainer likes him and thinks that he will settle down in a few months if I continue to follow the tips he has given me. Horse has improved since returning and I am planning on boxing to an indoor school for a riding lesson to tackle my confidence after Christmas. I am also planning on hacking with the trainer for extra advice.

There may be a possibility that I am offered a 'safe' horse that is currently at the yard but he has poor conditioned hooves and loses his shoes alot as a result. He hadn't been ridden for two years before I rode him last Monday and besides standing on my toe, he was as good as gold.

Would you consider taking the second one on or would you think that it would be too much to deal with as the first needs to be ridden every other day? Selling first horse is not an option at the minute.

If I was to take the second on as well I was considering part loaning him out to help cover the cost. Both horses are wintered out.

 

[skewbald_again]

Sounds to me as if, if you have the time to ride more than you are doing, then your horse would benefit from every spare moment you've got.
Taking on an extra horse doesn't 'feel' to me like the answer.
You are doing a lot of 'planning to' after Christmas etc, but surely you need to get on him and ride and ride and ride, like now? (If you can't, because of icy roads, etc, then you can't ride the other horse either, or am I missing something?)

For clarification purposes, why is selling out of the question, and why are people suggesting you 'sell to the dealer', rather than just 'sell'?

 

[LaurenM]

The trainer has advised to ride him every other day, keeping him in the night before to make him want to go out more..if that makes sense? I'd love to ride more but the horse is reluctant enough as it is.

Our paths are icy in places but as mine is unpredictable and tanks off there is a greater risk of him falling than the other horse. Other horse hacks out really well so no issue with hacking as I know where the icy bits are.

I'm not able to get someone to tow the box until after Christmas, hence why it's far in advance.

They think a dealer is the best way but I disagree. If I was to sell through a dealer he would most likely end up in the wrong hands and he's been passed around alot as it is.

I know he has the ability to hack out more confidently, but it depends on my ability to build mine up again. Which is what the second horse has done.

 

[ossy]

The trainer has advised to ride him every other day, keeping him in the night before to make him want to go out more..if that makes sense? I'd love to ride more but the horse is reluctant enough as it is.

.

To be honest I'm a little confused especially with that comment above. I would have thought if he napps, bolts he should be getting worked more, I'm not sure why you would keep in the day before you ride on purpose, its sounds to me he needs more miles on the clock, a lunge and ride 6 days a week is what I did with my slightly naughty horse who liked to try and buck me off all the time, he is fab now completely settled, but like now when I can't ride for snow, he will start to try on it again when I bring him back into work but soon settles down its just his personality.

If you have lost your confidence with him you either need to try rebuild it riding everyday or if you can't he really isn't the horse for you. Theres no shame in admitting you and your horse are not suited but I'm not why you can't sell this horse and get a more suitable one rather than taking on another horse as well, it wouldn't be fair on your current horse. If you really don't want to sell this horse can you not try find a sharer/full loaner for your current horse who will get on him everyday leaving you to concentrate rebuilding you confidence on this other horse.

 

[skewbald_again]

To be honest I'm a little confused especially with that comment above. I would have thought if he napps, bolts he should be getting worked more, I'm not sure why you would keep in the day before you ride on purpose, its sounds to me he needs more miles on the clock, a lunge and ride 6 days a week is what I did with my slightly naughty horse who liked to try and buck me off all the time, he is fab now completely settled, but like now when I can't ride for snow, he will start to try on it again when I bring him back into work but soon settles down its just his personality.
If you have lost your confidence with him you either need to try rebuild it riding everyday or if you can't he really isn't the horse for you. Theres no shame in admitting you and your horse are not suited but I'm not why you can't sell this horse and get a more suitable one rather than taking on another horse as well, it wouldn't be fair on your current horse. If you really don't want to sell this horse can you not try find a sharer/full loaner for your current horse who will get on him everyday leaving you to concentrate rebuilding you confidence on this other horse.

this is exactly what I thought, especially the leaving in the night before to 'make him want to go out' but he bombs with you? Seems very odd.
To be honest, it just doesn't sound like a happy combination, and I agree with ossy you might just be better to sell him and get a more suitable horse.
It seems to me as if you might be looking for reasons not to ride your boy and a second horse would be another reason? Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but honestly, ossy is right, no shame in admitting it, better for you both to move on?

 

[Bovril]

By the sounds of it you don't seem very keen on taking on the second horse and are only considering it because others have decided that's what's best for you. They may have your best interests at heart but it doesn't sound like you want to give up on your boy just yet, Confidence is a funny thing my Friend that I ride out with has had similar problems with her horse as he knows he is much stronger than her and can bully her, he's also been reschooled and was going very well before all this snow and ice we have now turned them away until it is safe to ride again as it will do her confidence no good to ride him intermittantly as he will be playing up to much. If you trust your instructor enough to send your horse there then I would go with what they say it will take time but if he's the right horse for you then it will be worth it. Good luck

 

[Flame_]

If your horse is not a bad horse, but it frightens you, please just sell it. You have nothing to prove to anyone and its supposed to be fun. If you have the opportunity to take on a horse you know well and know you would have fun with and get your confidence back you should try to find a way to do it!

Can't the trainer who has been working with your horse sell it for you?

 

[honetpot]

I totally agree with Flame.
I would also say that horses are much sharper in cold weather, if you have lost your confidence I would leave it till spring when the weather is better, the nights getting lighter and put aside time to get 'topside of him'. If there is something else sane to ride ride that to get your confidence back in the mean time.

 

[skewbald_again]

Lauen, I hope you don't mind but I just had a little look at your posting history, to get some background, and something jumped out at me.
Was it your lack of confidence or your horse jumping in front of tractors, I hear you ask?
Nope!
It was the immortal words 'There are twenty five horses on the yard, but at the moment, for various reasons, only four of them are being ridden.'

Is there any possibility you could move your horse (and therefore you ) to an environment where people actually ride their horses? I know it sounds like I am being picky, but honestly, I feel you need the support of a bunch of people who treat it as the norm to be out riding! You'd have company to hack out with, rather than a bunch of people telling you to sell your horse to a dealer and take on something else that someone else is presumably .... er ... not riding?

Please don't take offence, I know you may not be able to move yards, but that would be my best offer of a solution to the problem that would let you keep your lovely horse.

 

[LaurenM]

My head is a bit all over the place. In regards to loaning, I can't see that anyone would want to put the hard work in without owning the horse, as in a sense they have nothing to gain? Equally if I was to sell, would anyone want him?

It's really hard, I've bonded quite closely with him despite only having him for 10 months. I don't feel unsafe riding him as I know he's not trying to get me off, he'd just rather have an easier life and not be ridden. Whilst I'd quite like to enjoy my ride! I have managed to have problem free rides since he's been back, but I always seem to reflect more on the negative hence the post.

I can see your point about riding more rather than less..I just hope the snow stops so I can ride during the holidays.

The trainer should be up next week so I'll have a chat with him. I understand that some people on my yard are saying that I should sell as they care about me but it doesn't make it any easier to hear but equally I now things are far from rosy..if that makes sense?

 

[ossy]

Lauen, I hope you don't mind but I just had a little look at your posting history, to get some background, and something jumped out at me.
Was it your lack of confidence or your horse jumping in front of tractors, I hear you ask?
Nope!
It was the immortal words 'There are twenty five horses on the yard, but at the moment, for various reasons, only four of them are being ridden.'

Is there any possibility you could move your horse (and therefore you ) to an environment where people actually ride their horses? I know it sounds like I am being picky, but honestly, I feel you need the support of a bunch of people who treat it as the norm to be out riding! You'd have company to hack out with, rather than a bunch of people telling you to sell your horse to a dealer and take on something else that someone else is presumably .... er ... not riding?

Please don't take offence, I know you may not be able to move yards, but that would be my best offer of a solution to the problem that would let you keep your lovely horse.

I think we are singing from the same hymn sheet today
I can also see what honetpot is saying but horses being more hyped up in cold weather but i'm not sure leaving the issue untill spring is a good idea, I'd hate to think how the horse behaves by then if he actually has improved with reschooling, not to mention the waste of money of actually having him reschooled and then not continuing to build on the work, it defeats the purpose does it not? You could find a rider for him over winter while you build your confidence up on this over pony, that could be an idea if you trainer thinks he is a keeper.

I agree that it is meant to be fun an although like anything you can have your ups and downs ultimatley the key is be having fun.

 

[LaurenM]

Lauen, I hope you don't mind but I just had a little look at your posting history, to get some background, and something jumped out at me.
Was it your lack of confidence or your horse jumping in front of tractors, I hear you ask?
Nope!
It was the immortal words 'There are twenty five horses on the yard, but at the moment, for various reasons, only four of them are being ridden.'

Is there any possibility you could move your horse (and therefore you ) to an environment where people actually ride their horses? I know it sounds like I am being picky, but honestly, I feel you need the support of a bunch of people who treat it as the norm to be out riding! You'd have company to hack out with, rather than a bunch of people telling you to sell your horse to a dealer and take on something else that someone else is presumably .... er ... not riding?

Please don't take offence, I know you may not be able to move yards, but that would be my best offer of a solution to the problem that would let you keep your lovely horse.

Yes, that was me! I'm living with my family for the next few months and they are looking to move further north..still only 20 minutes away from current yard so this is an option I am considering!

When I ride, it tends to be just me and him as I'm in uni and my timetable clashes with other peoples commitments. Each time i ride him, we come accross either the binmen, tractors or trailers..all of which he has a passionate fear for. He did stand still whilst I called out to some tree cutters the other day though, which I was really proud of him for. He will also stand for the noisy vehicles, more so if I am on the ground rather than riding him. I think its because he will trust me with anything on the ground.

 

[Chestnuttymare]

I think if you have another one to ride, you will ride yours less. I think your efforts need to be concentrated on your boy.
I would try to get someone to hack out with. I don't see the point in pushing him to go out on his own at the moment until he has regained some of his confidence. Surely someone must hack on the yard. I can't believe there are all those horses and only 4 ridden. I think there must be a lot of confidence issues on your yard and the negativity has a knock on effect.
If someone starts to tell a horror story about falling off or some disaster, then make an excuse to not hear it. I never open posts on here that ask aobut 'your worst fall' or someone telling some awful story. It doesn't do my confidence any good to hear stuff like that. Also, if you are going out, envisage the hack in your head, plan your route then picture you and horsey going out and having a really nice time. If something negative comes into your head, then push it away, get rid of it asap.

I would say to also get as many lessons as you can, it will be great if your trainer can hack out with you. That must surely help both of you build your confidence.
I think another thing is to trust your instinct, as someone else says, your confidence is a really fragile thing, so if something doesn't feel right, then don't do it.
Stick in there, things will come good for you.

I don't understand the bit about keeping him in the night before you ride? I can't see that having any bearing on it. Why would that make him want to go out hacking or schooling, it will just make him want to go out in the field to kick his heels surely.

 

[LaurenM]

Thanks for all the comments.

Thinking positively makes alot of sense and is something that I need to work on. I tend to see the accident in my head before I've even entered the situation, its ridiculous!

Over the holidays there will be some people to ride with but generally there is only one other woman that I ride with. I work/go to uni in the afternoon/evening whilst everyone is in work/school. The lady I ride with likes to do a lot of trot work, which keeps his mind busy which I like whilst the others prefer to walk most places; which is when he is more on his toes.

There has been confidence issues at the yard, but also some of the ridden horses have gone lame recently so a few less to hack with.

Stupid question, but if I rode out with a mare rather than a gelding would it make a difference? There is one mare that he worships, who I used to hack out with but the owner was working abroad during the summer - he always seemed to hack out fine with her.

I agree that by having the other horse, I will feel less inclined to ride mine. I have the option of riding second horse until he is sold so I'm not going to be any worse off in the meantime.

Definately cannot wait to start having riding lessons with him. He's not great at boxing, so I thought by working on the hacking with the trainer it will give me the option of hacking to the indoor school instead.

 

[Tickles]

Agree with the others that keeping in the night before (espec if he is usually out) sounds like a good way to get yourself a spookier horse!

Obviously I'm not a trainer and don't know your animal but it would seem to me that
- if he is so reluctant to move with a rider on that you have to lock him up beforehand so he views it as an 'escape' then he probably has a physical problem or badly fitting tack
- if he is spooky then shutting him in will likely increase that as being out will be more unusual and he'll have more energy and be more tense to start with

I think your idea of getting him out more with horses he likes/trot work to interest him is good. If you have to go out in walk to get company then try 'schooling' as you go, e.g. lots of leg-yielding in zig-zags down a path can be good because a lot of his 'spooking' brain power will be used up as 'crossing legs over' brain power

Good luck with him. It sounds as though if you want to make this work you'll be able to.

 

[LaurenM]

Thanks for the comment.

Tack, teeth and back have been checked. He has recently had a new saddle (two months ago maybe) and his shape hasn't changed much since it was fitted.

I'll ride him 'from the field' so to speak on Sunday to see if it makes a difference.

I am really determined so fingers crossed.

 

[JVB]

I know you said he runs off and is nappy but what does he actually do when this happens?

Does he get scared of something and bolt back to the yard? Does he plant and refuse to go any further? Is there spinning and jumping about and what not when he gets scared?

When he runs off are you able to stop him, if not - what actually does stop him?

What is he like to school?

Sorry for all questions, just thinking of best advice as I've had nappy horses and scared horses so could do with knowing which he is!?

 

[LaurenM]

I know you said he runs off and is nappy but what does he actually do when this happens?

Does he get scared of something and bolt back to the yard? Does he plant and refuse to go any further? Is there spinning and jumping about and what not when he gets scared?

When he runs off are you able to stop him, if not - what actually does stop him?

What is he like to school?

Sorry for all questions, just thinking of best advice as I've had nappy horses and scared horses so could do with knowing which he is!?

He was horrific for napping before being reschooled - he would spin and try to get home every few yards. He would always spin into the middle of the road, which was really worrying when cars tried to pass.

At the minute, he seems to be walking along and then his neck tenses a little, he'll turn his head to the side slightly and if kept in the left rein whilst tapping him on his right shoulder he will walk on.

On Sunday we rode in company (first time in 3 weeks), he was on his toes a little at the beginning as we came across a golf buggy on the road - I've never seen one on the road so I can understand why this would upset him. I led him inhand to the top of the road onto a pathway and remounted. He relaxed and seemed fine. We were walking along great, he could hear people playing golf so got abit tense again but walked through it. Walked a further 250 yards when he just spun and tried trotting home. Each time I tried slowing him, he would put his head long and low to avoid the bit. To stop him, I bridge my hands like the jockeys, half halt and talk to him. The only thing I can think of was that I may have tensed as i seen alot of ice on the path ahead. Another rider rode past though and said that hers reacted oddly at the same spot - she used the path after us. My friend's horse was fine though apart from when he seen the golf buggy.

To school; I school him in a paddock and after letting him have a look around he's settled and does everything that is asked of him.

 

[skewbald_again]

I'm not sure it's a good idea to get off when he has a hissy. If I were a horse, and I was a bit bored and naughty ...

 

[Umbongo]

Sounds like you are thinking more positive about this so good on you.

I would agree with everyone else, that taking on a part loan would probably make you feel less inclined to ride yours, however maybe having the odd ride on him if you are allowed...as this could help you gain some confidence. I loaned a mare who would nap and bolt out on hacks when alone....the only thing that worked was calm positive riding and persistence, I rode her every day and sometimes 7 days a week....she is now very enjoyable to hack out.

If he used to hack fine with this other mare then go for it, it may help you to both gain some confidence again. When you do hack out I would try to keep him concentrating on you...and as you have said he is better when hacking out with others that do more trot work etc.

Keeping him in the night before you ride him every other day is strange advice. He sounds like he needs to be ridden most days, and I would have thought keeping him in the night before (when he is usually turned out) will make for a spookier horse when you do ride him.

 

[skewbald_again]

btw because I'm too lazy to check what breed is he, how big, how old etc?

 

[JVB]

Walked a further 250 yards when he just spun and tried trotting home. Each time I tried slowing him, he would put his head long and low to avoid the bit. To stop him, I bridge my hands like the jockeys, half halt and talk to him.

See, and it's hard to comment without seeing it happen, but if either of my two tried that they would get pulled round pretty harshly, sharp loud words and when facing the right way would get a good kick in the ribs - if they were doing it in protest and not that scared.

No idea, but is it possible you're being a bit soft on him?

If scared they would still get pulled up and if I had to put all my strength into it then I would, way I see it, they have to do what I tell them no matter what - it's too dangerous otherwise.

I do find vocal aids work wonders, be it reprimand or encouragement - what is he like if he gets a proper telling off? My mare can go one of two ways - either start arguing back or do as she's told!

 

[LaurenM]

He's a Sec D, 15.2 and 15.

I have only ever gotten really angry with him once and he had a massive telling off. We were hacking with the same horse from last Sunday and the other horse spun away from some cyclists. Mine spun and trotted all the way back down a steep hill to get home. Took him straight back out again by which point he was a bit of a nervous wreck so ended it on a good note and came home.

I have previously managed to ride him past a tractor after he tried spinning down the same hill though. I was literally screaming at him to get up the hill. 30 minutes later we passed another one and he walked past it without a fight.

He's really odd in the sense that if he is trotting off and I try spinning him back round he will try and fight me. Whereas if I stop him and spin him round he doesn't fight.

I don't agree with getting off but it sometimes feels like the only way to get him off the yard. When I lead him up the road, he always seems to try and walk directly behind me - as if he's trying to hide? I always encourage him to go slightly infront of me so that he can see 'more of the world'.

 

[baymareb]

Selling first horse is not an option at the minute.

Just curious as to why it isn't an option. Also, you don't have to sell through the dealer - you could do a private sale. If that is, you decided to sell.

But as for the question, I agree that taking on a second horse is not the answer. If you were to sell him and take on the other, that could make a lot of sense (keeping in mind that this horse may be quiet because he hasn't worked in so long - the better the condition, the more energy).

It's hard to build confidence when you're riding a horse you're not confident on. When he went for retraining, did the trainer work just with him or with you on him? Frankly, I don't see a lot of point in only training the horse, and I'm another who is mystified about why you'd be told to keep him in before riding.

My one suggestion is this - it sounds like you may be communicating a lot of tension and unsureness to him. Our horses count on us to keep them safe - their instinct is to flee anything unusual and it's up to us to give THEM confidence.

When you ride, really think about your breathing. Take good deep even breaths in and out, let it relax your body and bring you deep in the saddle. When you're facing things that may be scary, think about it even more. Your horse feels it and steady breathing will help control your pulse and the tension in your muscles which will help you keep from communicating fear to your horse.

Humming or singing can help with that too - it may look odd but you ride alone anyway.

 

[tweedette]

We had a horse like that loved taking off, so during the winter we schooled him in an indoor school and every time he took off, instead of trying to stop him, we kept him going eventually he wanted to slow down, but we said no!! you want to gallop so lets gallop, until we say slow - not you!! he's given in - we won that round, he doesnt try to run off any more for fear of repercussions, hes a big brave boy when he thinks he has the upper hand , we just played him at his own game. He does lovely shows and a great novice dressage and hes a welsh cob, but a biggie one.

 

[LaurenM]

Thanks for the comment.

I tend to ride with gewing gum in my mouth to distract me, make myself yawn to slow my breathing and normally sing that rolling down the river song - god knows why!

 

[LaurenM]

We had a horse like that loved taking off, so during the winter we schooled him in an indoor school and every time he took off, instead of trying to stop him, we kept him going eventually he wanted to slow down, but we said no!! you want to gallop so lets gallop, until we say slow - not you!! he's given in - we won that round, he doesnt try to run off any more for fear of repercussions, hes a big brave boy when he thinks he has the upper hand , we just played him at his own game. He does lovely shows and a great novice dressage and hes a welsh cob, but a biggie one.

I did this with him once towards the end of a 'fun ride'. The ride was mainly in walk so it was too slow for him in my opinion. Each time we tried a group trot someone else's horse would go a bit loopy so we were resigned to walking I just remember getting the gallop part of the bridle path and him wanting to slow down. He didn't win that battle lol!

Can't wait to have the use of an indoor school

 

[skewbald_again]

Thanks for the comment.

I tend to ride with gewing gum in my mouth to distract me, make myself yawn to slow my breathing and normally sing that rolling down the river song - god knows why!

ooh please don't ride with gum in your mouth, it's horribly dangerous!

the rest is good though, and him being a big bossy cob, I'll put my tin hat on and suggest that the odd good wallop wouldn't go amiss, either.

Turn him out in the snow, as well, none of this give him twelve hours to think up what his next trick is!

 

[JanetGeorge]

The trainer has advised to ride him every other day, keeping him in the night before to make him want to go out more..if that makes sense? I'd love to ride more but the horse is reluctant enough as it is.

Oh dear!! I would be getting yourself a new trainer - I've never heard such bo**ocks in my life!! (Well, I probably have - I hear a LOT of bo**ocks, but ....)

Nappy horses have to be ridden through it - by a confident rider who takes no prisoners!! You have to psyche yourself into being that rider. And every day is 100% better than every second day! Whether he stays in the night before or not is probably irrelevent!

How do you psyche yourself up?? Think of someone you can't STAND, and all the reasons you can't stand them. And hold that feeling!! And yes, I'm serious. Years ago I had a young Cleveland Bay who was a dreadful napper and rearer. I had got to the point where I WAS scared to get on him - and had arranged for him to go to a pt-to-pt rider friend of mine for some 'counselling'! In the meantime, I had my M-i-L staying with me and she was driving me CRAZY!! One day I just HAD to get away from her before I killed her - so I went and jumped on napping/rearing horse and RODE!! I'd gone 5 miles before I realised the bu**er hadn't napped once!! He just KNEW that one of us would DIE that day before I gave in - and he was worried it might be him! I cancelled his trip away - and although he still did nap and rear occasionally over the next 10 years, he never frightened me again!

 

[competitiondiva]

I went through some hard times with my mare as a teenager (her teenage years!), she has a vertical rear on her and we ended up on her back feet and down ditches, it got that bad (napping that is) that I too held up my hands and sent her to a trainer, who had the same issues daily, she only napped when hacked alone, schooled beautifully and hacked out with others just never took lead, when I got her back the issues were not resolved and I had to seriously consider selling or just moving to a yard that could offer what the horse needed which was an all weather surface. As she offered me everything else I could possibly want in the school, I moved yard, depite loving the yard I was on. Needless to say it was the best decision I've ever made, we just didn't make an issue of hacking alone, i didn't do it, i hacked out in company (as there were more liveries at the new yard) I schooled and jumped, and after about a year she started going level with the lead horse, then took the lead, and then would hack out alone, never an arguement. I'm just saying that if the horse is right, then you might need to look at moving yards instead of horses? I've had the best 10 years of riding and competing fun on my mare now, AND she's bred me a nice promising yearling now too, so I'm very happy, she is my one in a million horse!!!