What would you do......

Armas

Armas

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An update on Armas health. He is doing well and seems to have made a full recovery after his choke and hospitalisation.
I have a meeting with the vet tomorrow who advised me to use a hose and water to try and clear the blockage. This action in my view lead to further complications and put Armas under a huge amount of distress.
I have no issue with the treatment that the vet carried out when he arrived. I do however have an issue with the advise given on the phone.
I am sure that the vet is going to try and say his advise was correct and present me with his bill. Any one have any advise on dealing with vets that have given poor advise ?? I am in France !
 
Tricky one.
I agree that is not good advice... ( not having a go, just agreeing I don't think that is the sort of advice a vet should be giving someone. )
Is this vet someone you'll have to use again? or are there any other vets that you can change to?
That would influence how much I made of this, because, ultimately, you need to have vet cover for your boy.
I would start by having a chat with the vet, and let them know that you are happy with some of the care, but not that advice, and say that you want a discount on your bill.
Like I say though, if they are adamant that they did nothing wrong, and you loose the only vet in town by not paying the full amount, I guess I would pay ( not willingly though )
Kx
 
Circe said:
Tricky one.
I agree that is not good advice... ( not having a go, just agreeing I don't think that is the sort of advice a vet should be giving someone. )
Is this vet someone you'll have to use again? or are there any other vets that you can change to?
That would influence how much I made of this, because, ultimately, you need to have vet cover for your boy.
I would start by having a chat with the vet, and let them know that you are happy with some of the care, but not that advice, and say that you want a discount on your bill.
Like I say though, if they are adamant that they did nothing wrong, and you loose the only vet in town by not paying the full amount, I guess I would pay ( not willingly though )
Kx
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Not the only vet and not a vet I will be using again and its not a vet I have ever used before. They were called on my behalf by some friends as they had the number at hand.
I am happy to pay the call out charge and some of the fees, but I am vexed that I ended up having to send my boy away to hospital and having incurred €1500 bill and all the stress that went along with it.
I want the vet to understand that the advise he gave was not good and could have possibly killed my boy.
 
I have a sneaky feeling the vet was not telling you to put the hosepipe in to the horse mouth and down its throat to move the blockage, I think he/she was trying to say spray water in to the horses mouth so that he has to swallow and this will possibly move the blockage. Glad to hear he is getting better.
 
putasocinit said:
I have a sneaky feeling the vet was not telling you to put the hosepipe in to the horse mouth and down its throat to move the blockage, I think he/she was trying to say spray water in to the horses mouth so that he has to swallow and this will possibly move the blockage. Glad to hear he is getting better.
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^^ which would still be terrible advice.... Swallowing isn't the problem, the blockage is. Ending up with a blockage that you just shove more water behind is a recipe for inhalation pneumonia. Vets don't say use water - a lot of blockages would swell and make things worse...
 
putasocinit said:
I have a sneaky feeling the vet was not telling you to put the hosepipe in to the horse mouth and down its throat to move the blockage, I think he/she was trying to say spray water in to the horses mouth so that he has to swallow and this will possibly move the blockage. Glad to hear he is getting better.
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This is what I initially thought.

Just out of interest were you speaking in English or French? Perhaps there was a language barrier and some confusion as to what he was asking you to do?

ETA: just read what he said to you - sounds pretty clear to me! I wouldn't be happy either...
 
CobsGalore said:
This is what I initially thought.

Just out of interest were you speaking in English or French? Perhaps there was a language barrier and some confusion as to what he was asking you to do?

ETA: just read what he said to you - sounds pretty clear to me! I wouldn't be happy either...
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The vet spoke with a native French speaker and was on speaker phone. There were 4 of us that listened to the instructions. So there was no confusion in what we were being told to do.
 
Just to say, Armas - I wasn't suggesting in anyway you were to blame - you followed veterinary instruction, as we all do, and you have been left in a very difficult position, and had a nasty experience with your lovely horse. I am so pleased he has come through the whole thing ok. I do hope that whatever happens with the vet, you manage to get something sorted out :-)
 
then sue the vets, you have witnesses to the instructions, get confirmation from other vets that this is definitely fatal advice, you have nothing to lose, Armas is getting better but it could have been a disaster. Good luck
 
I guess it depends on how much time, effort and money you want to throw at it. I would certainly tell them that it was terrible advice and that you will not be using them again, and generally kick up a bit of fuss to make a point. Suing them will be costly (at least in the short term) and time consuming...

Glad Armas is doing well.
 
saalsk said:
Just to say, Armas - I wasn't suggesting in anyway you were to blame - you followed veterinary instruction, as we all do, and you have been left in a very difficult position, and had a nasty experience with your lovely horse. I am so pleased he has come through the whole thing ok. I do hope that whatever happens with the vet, you manage to get something sorted out :-)
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I never thought you were :)

putasocinit said:
then sue the vets, you have witnesses to the instructions, get confirmation from other vets that this is definitely fatal advice, you have nothing to lose, Armas is getting better but it could have been a disaster. Good luck
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Suing people is easier said than done and is a a costly headache one which I can do with out. I am suing some one in the UK at the moment hence the unwillingness to go down this route.
The hospital will not commit to saying that the water was the definitive cause to the hospitalization. They will only say that they would not have given the advise to use a hose.
The important thing for me is my boy is now ok and the vet never advises this treatment again.
 
I've always been told take food and water away, walk round, rub gullet and turn head side to side. Elderly mate gets it a lot and waterboarding is not a solution I've ever cine across
 
I would want some redress. This wasn't bad advice, it was catastrophic. It could have ended with Armas dropping dead at your feet and you would be blaming yourself for the rest of your life (even though you were acting on advice from a qualified professional). I have read cases where even vets get it wrong and the horse literally drowns in front of them. The following is an extract from a veterinary manual from 1917:

CHOKING

This term applies to obstruction of the gullet as well as that of the
windpipe.

CAUSE: Too rapid eating, by which pieces of carrots or other roots, or a
quantity of dry food become lodged in the gullet. Although obstructions
of the windpipe caused while drenching, or food entering the lungs, will
kill an animal in a very short time, obstructions in the gullet may not
prove fatal for several days.

TREATMENT: No time should be lost in attempting to remove the
obstruction from the gullet. It may be dislodged by gently manipulating
the gullet. If unsuccessful in dislodging the obstruction in this
manner, secure the services of a competent veterinarian. He will use a
probang, an instrument made for this purpose, or inject Sweet or Olive
Oil into the gullet with a hypodermic syringe, or give hypodermic
injections of Arecoline. In administering drenches with the object of
dislodging obstructions in the gullet, you must remember that the
liquids used are apt to go the wrong way, that is to say, enter the
lungs, and give rise to lung complications, as lung fever, bronchitis,
etc. Obstructions of solid substance in the windpipe generally cause
death very shortly. When liquids enter the lungs, death is not so apt to
occur, as the animal may live several days, and sometimes even get well.
They should be treated the same as for lung fever.

No mention of putting a hose in the mouth and trying to dislodge by using water. I'm glad Armas is well.
 
Was it an equine vet (don't think you've said whether it was a specialist).

Sueing is a waste of time and money in this case imo.

You have however witnesses who heard what the vet said over the phone; you also have another veterinary practice that states this was not good advice. I would take it up with the vet tomorrow and discuss whether he thinks his advice was correct and what his opinion is of the outcome of the advice he gave.

From there negotiate a price that you both feel is fair.
 
Nicnac said:
Was it an equine vet (don't think you've said whether it was a specialist).

Sueing is a waste of time and money in this case imo.

You have however witnesses who heard what the vet said over the phone; you also have another veterinary practice that states this was not good advice. I would take it up with the vet tomorrow and discuss whether he thinks his advice was correct and what his opinion is of the outcome of the advice he gave.

From there negotiate a price that you both feel is fair.
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The vet was an equine vet the treatment he gave when here was spot on. I can not fault it however I feel much of the treatment given was only needed because of the water.
 
Today I went in to speak with the vet in question. I was polite and calm and explained my issue with the advise given over the phone. He seemed rather timid and agreed that he would not give that advise again.
His bill was €355 which he dropped down to €288 as a good will gesture.
I just wanted to make sure that no horse every goes through what my boy had to endure.
 
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