What would you do?

GrassChop

GrassChop

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I've been renting a private field for 5 or so years now. I don't have a contract in place as it was temporary all those years ago but I ended up staying.

However, the landlord has always been extremely tight when it comes to money. She has always expected me to do all repairs even if my horses haven't broken anything and it is simply through wear and age. The fencing and shelters are ancient but I've tried my best to keep them up together and maintain them.

The whole field could do with having new fencing as half of it is so rotten that it's barely in the ground anymore but I can't afford that and she wouldn't offer because she wouldn't feel it was up to her so I've just kept things as together as possible and have boundary fences all the way round with electric instead. The fencing must be at least 20 years old with the exception of a few new posts here and there.

One of the shelters that I am told is 20+ years old needed a whole new back section. Yes, the youngster had been chewing it but it was so rotten and falling to pieces already. I told her I was doing that and how much the materials were just in case she might offer but no, no offer or thank you for doing it but she expects it so doesn't look at it in that way to warrant a thank you! It's also had various sections of corrugated felt replaced that I've purchased and done.

I've managed to sort out a lot of the fencing to make it more secure over the years by putting in smaller posts to support the current ones and reattaching bits that come down here and there.

Now, she's told me she would like to move one of her horses into the paddock that shares a fence with my youngster. Yes, he has been destructive and likes to chew things but she blames him for everything. This shared fence has been in terrible condition for years, it probably hasn't seen a new post or rail for 20+ years but because it's falling apart, my youngster has had the blame again even though he is fenced away from it and has been the whole time he's been there. She wants me to replace roughly 38 meters of that post and rail fence and to be honest, I don't know what to even say this time.

I've tried to make an agreement with her before on what I'm responsible for etc but she doesn't want any contracts. She just tells me she wants me to fix/replace something and I can't be bothered to argue. I know she expects things for free and I get a good rent so I get on with it.

This time though, I just cannot afford to replace that whole fence and it's not just my fence. I've botched it together to keep it tidy more times than I can count. It is old and it's broken through age, I'm struggling to see how this would fall down to me.

What would you do?
 
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bonny said:
I think it depends a bit on how much rent you are paying ? Is it very cheap but you are expected to maintain it ?
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The neighbouring fields I believe are rented at £100 per horse and roughly the same size. I pay £115 for 2 horses in total so technically only £85 less. Their fields are maintained by the landlord unless your horse breaks something.
 
I think it depends on whether you have any other options. Personally, if moving next door is an option, I would pay the extra £85 (per month?) to get a more reliable landlord and a contract so you know where you are.

Without giving details I'm in a similar situation - fantastic field and location with dilapidated buildings and at least 200m of thirty year old rotten boundary fence. Nothing is fixed or maintained despite the fact that the contract says the landlord is responsible. However for me the setup is so good it's worth the hassle, so we mend rooves and replace bits of fencing.

You might have to sit down and have a good think about whether this setup is worth it to you any more. It sounds quite stressful to me, particularly with no contract. It's not nice having your horses constantly blamed for the collapse of ancient and dilapidated infrastructure.
 
GrassChop said:
The neighbouring fields I believe are rented at £100 per horse and roughly the same size. I pay £115 for 2 horses in total so technically only £85 less. Their fields are maintained by the landlord unless your horse breaks something.
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£85 a month less isn’t really an ‘only’ to me, that’s a fair chunk and 5k over the 5 years you’ve been renting. I guess she’s worked that out and is why she thinks she can make you responsible for fixing/general upkeep. There’s certainly plenty of similar situations where any of the actual work is down to the tenant.

I think your best take is that your side is secured by your electric fencing, if it’s dangerous for hers to have access to it she can do the same but it’s a bit of a how much are you on to a situation that suits you issue
 
GrassChop said:
The neighbouring fields I believe are rented at £100 per horse and roughly the same size. I pay £115 for 2 horses in total so technically only £85 less. Their fields are maintained by the landlord unless your horse breaks something.
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It’s obviously difficult as there is nothing in writing,

But I’m assuming your £115 is a month, for the 5 acres / 2 horses?

I don’t know where in the country you are but unless it’s in the arse end of nowhere, where equine land to rent is easily found, then you do not realise quite how cheap that is. On that basis I would 200% be expecting some significant contribution to land upkeep.

I might use this as a starting point to negotiating some sort of lease on the land with some negotiation on maintenance expectations.

It is however likely to lead to a rent increase.

Having just re-read she is not the contracts type of person,

I’d suggest you go 50:50 on the new fence given it’s a shared boundary, but you pay your 50% off to the land owner on a monthly basis over the next X years.
 
The rent seems really cheap, but I don't know where you are. It looks like this is about £300-£350 worth of fencing materials, but it depends if you can install it yourself. My fencing is over 20 years old and needs sections like this doing every year now. It's not damaged, just rotted out at the bottom so some of the rails can be reused.

Financially it looks like it would be worth it to just do it but it depends on other factors like will there be ongoing requests for other maintenance work, can you get a proper lease, can you move easily if she serves notice?
 
ihatework said:
It’s obviously difficult as there is nothing in writing,

But I’m assuming your £115 is a month, for the 5 acres / 2 horses?

I don’t know where in the country you are but unless it’s in the arse end of nowhere, where equine land to rent is easily found, then you do not realise quite how cheap that is. On that basis I would 200% be expecting some significant contribution to land upkeep.

I might use this as a starting point to negotiating some sort of lease on the land with some negotiation on maintenance expectations.

It is however likely to lead to a rent increase.

Having just re-read she is not the contracts type of person,

I’d suggest you go 50:50 on the new fence given it’s a shared boundary, but you pay your 50% off to the land owner on a monthly basis over the next X years.
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It's 2 acres. The adjoining fields are the same size and rented at £100 per horse so it's only £85 less than what others are paying.
 
ester said:
£85 a month less isn’t really an ‘only’ to me, that’s a fair chunk and 5k over the 5 years you’ve been renting. I guess she’s worked that out and is why she thinks she can make you responsible for fixing/general upkeep. There’s certainly plenty of similar situations where any of the actual work is down to the tenant.

I think your best take is that your side is secured by your electric fencing, if it’s dangerous for hers to have access to it she can do the same but it’s a bit of a how much are you on to a situation that suits you issue
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It has been like it since I've been there so I've been paying out a lot over the years anyway. It's just this time it doesn't really feel like it should be my responsibility. I will fix what is there but my side is fenced off and so is hers anyway. The fence isn't falling down, it's just a bit unsightly and rotten where bits are breaking off. It needs replacing just because of how bad it has gotten but she doesn't believe that it's through wear.
 
nutjob said:
The rent seems really cheap, but I don't know where you are. It looks like this is about £300-£350 worth of fencing materials, but it depends if you can install it yourself. My fencing is over 20 years old and needs sections like this doing every year now. It's not damaged, just rotted out at the bottom so some of the rails can be reused.

Financially it looks like it would be worth it to just do it but it depends on other factors like will there be ongoing requests for other maintenance work, can you get a proper lease, can you move easily if she serves notice?
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Neither of us will be able to do it. She wants my partner who is in the trade to do it but he's not going to do it for free and she won't pay for that. I suggested she pays for the materials and he installs it for free but I don't think she wants that either! She wants me to sort it. She won't make a contract, I asked for one recently as she, in her words, "is getting on and should anything happen" etc. I thought it was important to have one in case that time did come but she won't do it and the continued maintenance will be down to me.
 
I would just say to her that as she's aware your horses are fenced back away from the post and rail so its incredibly unfair to expect you to pay for damage that your horses haven't caused. you've maintained what you can over the last 5 years but you really think its time that she considers using your livery money to put some investment back into the yard. you'd even be willing to pay more per month if the field was maintained better.

the problem she'll have is if you leave who is going to want to move in with her when the fields and shelters are clearly in a state of disrepair!
 
GrassChop said:
Neither of us will be able to do it. She wants my partner who is in the trade to do it but he's not going to do it for free and she won't pay for that. I suggested she pays for the materials and he installs it for free but I don't think she wants that either! She wants me to sort it. She won't make a contract, I asked for one recently as she, in her words, "is getting on and should anything happen" etc. I thought it was important to have one in case that time did come but she won't do it and the continued maintenance will be down to me.
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you could say you can do that and you will take the costs out of your livery until its paid back!
 
kerrieberry2 said:
I would just say to her that as she's aware your horses are fenced back away from the post and rail so its incredibly unfair to expect you to pay for damage that your horses haven't caused. you've maintained what you can over the last 5 years but you really think its time that she considers using your livery money to put some investment back into the yard. you'd even be willing to pay more per month if the field was maintained better.

the problem she'll have is if you leave who is going to want to move in with her when the fields and shelters are clearly in a state of disrepair!
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If it’s half the price of the next door fields I suspect someone will
 
I pay for all of the maintenance in my rented field because it's rented to me at a fairly cheap rate and it is worth it to me- rented fields around here are not that easy to find, and this one borders my field.
For reference, I pay £150 a month for 9 acres (including mains water but no other facilities)
 
TheMule said:
I pay for all of the maintenance in my rented field because it's rented to me at a fairly cheap rate and it is worth it to me- rented fields around here are not that easy to find, and this one borders my field.
For reference, I pay £150 a month for 9 acres (including mains water but no other facilities)
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That's good for 9 acres!

I don't mind doing maintenance but replacing large structures that we both benefit from, or mostly her, is something I don't feel is entirely down to me.
 
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If your rent is cheap I think doing maintenance is fine and to be expected. Higher rent would be to cover maintenance done by LL.

If you're both benefitting from the fencing/both have horses on the land can you split the costs?

Also, a contract would be a good idea. It's never too late to protect yourself, especially if it feels as if the goal posts keep changing - a written contract would, hopefully, prevent this.
 
GrassChop said:
Maybe or someone might find it much easier to pay the extra without spending hundreds each year in time consuming repairs. 💁‍♀️
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I think a lot of people would consider saving over £1000 per year, even if they have to spend a few hundred and do some labour.

You're minimising how much you're saving here - just £85 is more than half your monthly bill!
 
Ok, so it sounds like perhaps she is elderly and not up to the physical work of doing the maintenance herself? That in itself is fine but it sounds like she's not really being straight with you - this arrangement only works if everyone is upfront and happy about how they benefit from it (i.e. you get cheap rent and do all the maintenance, she gets someone who does all the work for her).

The fact that she's making out that you SHOULD do all the maintenance because somehow her ancient infrastructure is your fault, would both stress me out and pee me off. And if she really is that close to death's door I would not be investing large amounts of cash into her fencing and shelters. If she did die you'd probably be evicted and lose all of it. Personally I'd rather pay more and know exactly where both parties stood.

I know £85 per month adds up to almost a grand a year, but I also know from experience that keeping fences and buildings maintained properly ends up costing thousands, so I don't think having the entire financial burden falling on you as a livery is fair. Yes, you are getting very cheap livery, but is it actually worth the stress to you. I find that it is to me, but I still hate discovering that more of the fence has collapsed on a dark rainy Friday night, it needs fixing right now so the horses don't escape, and there is no one except me and a post knocker to do it.
 
Your rent sounds extremely reasonable no matter the condition of fencing. If you calculate roughly the cost of post and rail for 35 metres, materials would be roughly €920 over here. Divide that by the number of months you have been there it still works out at only approximately £13 sterling per month. So still extremely cheap if you have someone handy who would help with installation, pretty straightforward just requires a bit of huffing and puffing over a few weekends.

Could you perhaps offer some sort of deal where you will pay half the materials but also supply the installation yourself? If you really don't want to contribute in any way I would be prepared to find yourself needing new livery in the near future, but do expect a higher rental elsewhere.
 
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